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It's still perfectly viable for arbitage. Is it worthless for PVEers who collect loot? Not at all, but their income from it does get reduced by about half (depending on how min prices move). And why is that such a huge problem? The loot portion of PVE activities is minimal.

Now that things have degenerated into the standard "High Sec vs. Null Sec" and "GRRRR Goons" debate that we've had a thousand times, it may be too late to offer any productive suggestions.

But let me try anyway. I think there might be a way for salvagers to retain their income streams, while still controlling (player-manufactured) mineral compression.

The reason for the nerf to scrapmetal reprocessing, apparently, is that things got too far out of hand with mineral compression. This mostly had to do with player-produced T1 items (425mm rails, etc.). These items are being manufactured in large amounts, due almost exclusively to the fact that they can be reprocessed into more minerals (volume wise) than they occupy in a cargo hold.

As far as I know, however, none of these items drop from rats when they are killed. To be sure, some items like meta 1-4 425mm hybrids are dropped. And these things must be pretty good for mineral compression, since they tend to sell rather well. But the key thing is that almost nothing that drops from rats can be player-manufactured.

This is particularly true for metal scraps. These things were introduced to the loot tables when meta 0 items were removed. There is no way for players to manufacture metal scraps; they can only be obtained by looting rats. They also are incredibly useful as compressed minerals. A single metal scrap currently occupies the space of just a single unit of Tritanium (0.01 m3), but -- with today's perfect refining -- can be reprocessed into 500 units of Tritanium. In fact, even with the proposed nerf to reprocessing, they are going to be remain a source of amazing mineral compression.

Now, I admit that I haven't thought this through in every way, but what if metal scraps got a big buff to compensate for the loss in refining efficiency?

Let's say that more scraps dropped. Let's say that different kinds of scraps got introduced, with different variations being compressed versions of other minerals other than Tritanium. The types of scraps that dropped could vary depending on security status and location of the kill (basically, the same kinds of minerals that could be mined in that location). And let's further say that the mineral amounts were buffed so that the best refiners, with the best equipment and implants, could still obtain today's 500:1 compression ratios (or some other appropriate ratio) with these scraps.

If these scraps were the only source of deeply compressed minerals, they would be worth quite a bit to the salvager who went out and collected them. Because they can't be manufactured, they would only be available from salvaging, so salvaging would remain a "thing". They would never account for enough minerals to maintain any kind of heavy production line, so mining would still be needed. And CCP would be able to adjust the loot tables and drop rates as needed to maintain balance.

Meanwhile meta 1-4 items would continue to drop, and would be salvaged. But they would be hit with the same reprocessing nerf that player-produced items have, and would only be useful as actual meta 1-4 modules, and not as a source of minerals.

I freely admit that this idea probably has problems that I have not considered. But it seems a way to retain powerful value in looting and salvaging as professions, while limiting the ability of players to intentionally compress minerals into manufactured items.

I welcome any and all comments that tear this idea apart or (even better yet) improve upon it.

i made a spreadsheet, it may or may not be useful for the discussion:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmeSjuDVQf0TdF9QTnpRVUJrMUVna0tKY3pkTjZ0dVE&usp=sharing

(you need to make a copy to change values)

it's supposed to show you how much ore you need to refine in order to pay for your investment.

wormholers who had a rorqual or wanted a rorqual are still interested in a rorqual for the boosts, and a rorqual is still more valuable than a dread or carrier to them.

there is absolutely nothing stopping CCP from simply doubling the minerals in meta 1-4 loot. there is a chance that part get's nerfed/fixed and i really hope they adjust it a bit. i need to know some better numbers before i made a definite statement though (how much loot is actually reprocessed and how many minerals of what type come from it)

Kind of pissed I didn't think of it 62 pages ago.

:)

fuel ain't free

nothing in highsec would be worth doing that, except in certain border stations with a freighter (and in those, drag bubble the freighter for some hilarious kills)

20% of the value of a hauler full of compressed ores is worth the fuel cost of hauling, no?

Even better, you haul junk rich in low ends to null sec, then haul junk rich in high ends back to hi sec. No more deadheads. Now you know why Minmatar ships are built out of scrap metal: because the Minmatar specialise in scrap metal arbitrage. Why convert the metal into junk to store in a spaceship hold when you can convert the metal into a junk spaceship?

nice lag spike double post please delete this one.