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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#261 - 2014-03-20 19:08:40 UTC
Jamie Clark wrote:
so what happened to Medium Intensive Refining Array i keep reading and did not find any thing.

So can you change the ore sites back so you have to scan for them. That would make mining better again and get use of the pos refining in wh space.




Quote:
That is why we are turning the previous Medium Intensive Refinery into a Compression Array that functions the same way that the Rorqual does.


From the dev blog

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Jeremy Soikutsu
Kite Co. Space Trucking
#262 - 2014-03-20 19:11:07 UTC
Emilia Istis wrote:
as you know there is a little veldspar in null

Have you ever even been in a null belt?

Also because of people saying **** like this null ores were jammed full of low-ends, so cram it.

"Of course you would choose the fun, but you don't lead a relevant entity which has allies." - Colonel Xaven
Kadl
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#263 - 2014-03-20 19:11:17 UTC
Marcia en Welle wrote:
2. Although I am loving the changes to null sec outposts, it is absolutely silly that a maximum skilled refiner in a 50% station can get 72.4%, whereas a fresh newb with no skills at all can achieve 78.1% in a POS.

Two things I would change:


  • Bring low sec and null sec stations up to the current levels which the POS modules can achieve respectively.
  • Add the skill requirement for POS modules.


Also I'd like to point out this is a massive buff to WH residents, perhaps unnecessarily seeing as CCP state that they do not want people living in WHs. Now WH residents will be able to cut themselves off almost completely.


Your maxed skilled person is in a high sec station. Your fresh newb has setup a lowsec pos. I think a small bonus is acceptable.

Adding skill requirements for the POS module sounds good. I would be even more thrilled if the modules actually used your skills to determine the refined amounts. CCP has indicated in their design that they would like to use skills, but that the effort to do that might not be reasonable at the present time.
GeeBee
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#264 - 2014-03-20 19:11:59 UTC
So,

Overall this makes me extremely unhappy, its tearing the very fabric of T1 production in the game into shreds.

Currently

Mine Minerals

Build whatever you want, when you're bored of it repro it into the 100% base materials and build something else. Module compression for production was a side effect of this. It also meant that a useless unfavored module / hull could be scrapped in favor of something useful, minus rigs(well except this *extra minerals* business)

Get bored of it entirely make something more profitable out of it and market it.

After ReproGeddon.

Mine Minerals - Get more minerals than before
When something is built its built that way for good.
No more clay molding materials Back and forth into whatever.
All hail the miners that supply everything, long live the mining bots.

Other Things
So the mineral compression blueprints are being bought back, what about module compression blueprints? Theres going to be alot of useless bastion module, 425 railguns, tachyon and other blueprints.

So this will also affectively nerf the reprocessing of drops that get reprocessed by ~50%? post change will rat / mission drops be adjusted? I mean most of what drops is useless and gets repro'd anyway with a minor amount of things being put onto the market because they sell higher than they repro.

If nullsec mining is to be a *thing* could we get the sov indicies removed from the map? this has always been a terrible thing and never used for its intended purpose of nice built up sov, ill take that. Its only been used for griefing.

Speaking of griefing, since you're cracking into things that have been that way for a long time and really probably should have been changed a long time ago how about a change to AFK CLOAKY CAMPING?
Adunh Slavy
#265 - 2014-03-20 19:12:34 UTC
Good, but not going far enough. Could reduce reprocessing by another 25% across the board.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#266 - 2014-03-20 19:13:11 UTC
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:
Emilia Istis wrote:
as you know there is a little veldspar in null

Have you ever even been in a null belt?

Also because of people saying **** like this null ores were jammed full of low-ends, so cram it.

have you?

did you see how you were the only person there?

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#267 - 2014-03-20 19:13:33 UTC
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:
Emilia Istis wrote:
as you know there is a little veldspar in null

Have you ever even been in a null belt?

Also because of people saying **** like this null ores were jammed full of low-ends, so cram it.

The reason asteroids are so large in nullsec belts is because no one mines them. If for some ungodly reason you were daft enough to actually mine a regular asteroid belt over a mining anomaly (or perhaps as a function of bootstrapping an industrial index,) you would quickly exhaust the inflated asteroid, and it would return to regenerating at the normal rate.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
The Cue
Violence is the Answer
#268 - 2014-03-20 19:14:27 UTC
Marcia en Welle wrote:
Also I'd like to point out this is a massive buff to WH residents, perhaps unnecessarily seeing as CCP state that they do not want people living in WHs. Now WH residents will be able to cut themselves off almost completely.


CCP has never said that they do not want people living in WHs. You are very significantly misunderstanding them. They stated that it was a totally unintentional situation, but just because it's unintended does not mean it's unwanted.

This change is also a partial nerf to WH residents, as many of us import ice instead of the four products. Less M3, which is a precious commodity in WHs.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#269 - 2014-03-20 19:15:55 UTC
GeeBee wrote:
So,

Overall this makes me extremely unhappy, its tearing the very fabric of T1 production in the game into shreds.

Currently

Mine Minerals

Build whatever you want, when you're bored of it repro it into the 100% base materials and build something else. Module compression for production was a side effect of this. It also meant that a useless unfavored module / hull could be scrapped in favor of something useful, minus rigs(well except this *extra minerals* business)

Get bored of it entirely make something more profitable out of it and market it.

After ReproGeddon.

Mine Minerals - Get more minerals than before
When something is built its built that way for good.
No more clay molding materials Back and forth into whatever.
All hail the miners that supply everything, long live the mining bots.

Other Things
So the mineral compression blueprints are being bought back, what about module compression blueprints? Theres going to be alot of useless bastion module, 425 railguns, tachyon and other blueprints.

So this will also affectively nerf the reprocessing of drops that get reprocessed by ~50%? post change will rat / mission drops be adjusted? I mean most of what drops is useless and gets repro'd anyway with a minor amount of things being put onto the market because they sell higher than they repro.

If nullsec mining is to be a *thing* could we get the sov indicies removed from the map? this has always been a terrible thing and never used for its intended purpose of nice built up sov, ill take that. Its only been used for griefing.

Speaking of griefing, since you're cracking into things that have been that way for a long time and really probably should have been changed a long time ago how about a change to AFK CLOAKY CAMPING?


The current fungibility of assembled items and raw minerals is not healthy for the game. This change, frankly, is more elegant than I would have expected. You'll just have to console yourself with the hilarious extra reproc yields from your T3 minmatar outpost.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#270 - 2014-03-20 19:17:24 UTC
i like this a lot
Kadl
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#271 - 2014-03-20 19:17:26 UTC
If the items used in mineral compression are no longer needed for that then perhaps the volumes could be increased. That might encourage more local production in all areas.
Adellle Nadair
Nuclear Midnight
Diplomatic Incidents.
#272 - 2014-03-20 19:18:43 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.


No, the nullsec production problem is caused by hi-sec having utter dominance in every conceivable industry advantage, to the point that the only people doing industry in null are either RPers, supercap builders or just plain bad at maths.

OK some hi bulk, low-value stuff gets built like ratting ammo and cap boosters, but even there the quantities are small compared to what gets imported.


The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null. That gives more things to do and more ways to play. There are a large amount of players that want to be able to play casually, (relatively) safely and without the drama of nullsec life. Null should have methods to make industry more welcoming, and make it not as hard as it is now to manufacture. But giving nullsec game mechanics that make it impossible to compete in highsec is wrong.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#273 - 2014-03-20 19:20:27 UTC
Adellle Nadair wrote:

The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null.

wrong

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#274 - 2014-03-20 19:21:41 UTC
Adellle Nadair wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.


No, the nullsec production problem is caused by hi-sec having utter dominance in every conceivable industry advantage, to the point that the only people doing industry in null are either RPers, supercap builders or just plain bad at maths.

OK some hi bulk, low-value stuff gets built like ratting ammo and cap boosters, but even there the quantities are small compared to what gets imported.


The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null. That gives more things to do and more ways to play. There are a large amount of players that want to be able to play casually, (relatively) safely and without the drama of nullsec life. Null should have methods to make industry more welcoming, and make it not as hard as it is now to manufacture. But giving nullsec game mechanics that make it impossible to compete in highsec is wrong.

I would suggest competing on the fact that acquisition of ore in highsec is safer by several orders of magnitude and on the fact that you are not required to sell minerals on the open market; your ore can be sold just as easily and dragged out to one of the conquerable tier 3 minmatar outposts to be melted.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#275 - 2014-03-20 19:22:06 UTC
Adellle Nadair wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.


No, the nullsec production problem is caused by hi-sec having utter dominance in every conceivable industry advantage, to the point that the only people doing industry in null are either RPers, supercap builders or just plain bad at maths.

OK some hi bulk, low-value stuff gets built like ratting ammo and cap boosters, but even there the quantities are small compared to what gets imported.


The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null. That gives more things to do and more ways to play. There are a large amount of players that want to be able to play casually, (relatively) safely and without the drama of nullsec life. Null should have methods to make industry more welcoming, and make it not as hard as it is now to manufacture. But giving nullsec game mechanics that make it impossible to compete in highsec is wrong.

you're saying that to malcanis
Adellle Nadair
Nuclear Midnight
Diplomatic Incidents.
#276 - 2014-03-20 19:24:35 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Adellle Nadair wrote:

The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null.

wrong


From a goon. Thank you for proving my point.
Ashla Boga
Pro Synergy
#277 - 2014-03-20 19:24:39 UTC
"Keep Calm and Carry On"?

Damn it CCP. You're trying to kill the profit of hundreds of salvagers and hundreds of missioners just revolving around Pro Synergy alone. One corp. You're screwing with things that are just going to backfire and increase botting. Everyone wants more bots, right?

You killed drone poo which was a huge spike through the heart of the salvaging community, and gave us bounties on drones instead, which I agree missioners were in love with (despite salvagers losing a lot of profit). Then you removed Meta 0 modules from rat droppings because there was too many minerals in your eyes. Now this.

"Calm down, Mr Director of Salvage Corp Person, it's just a game." Hell no. I'm fired up and pissed off because you're going to decrease profits of new and veteran players salvaging and their missioner friends by obscene amounts with not even the slightest compensation. Even with Scrapmetal V and a 4% implant the yields are going to be crap. Rig changes have done almost nothing to increase profits from the salvaging profession, and behind every Noctis is a real live player. Not a program.

You say you want to reward players who specialize in a career, and ore miners and ice miners are going to be unaffected by this. But module reprocessors like myself and a dozen other faithful admins of the corp have absolutely NO POSSIBLE WAY to get even remotely close to 100% yield. Even if you added an Advanced Scrapmetal Reprocessing we'd still be far off. That's not helping a specialized player, it's slapping them in the F***ing face. Our admins have trained OVER a month of skills to be the best at what they do for their customers, but not that will all be way more than wasted. Ore miners didn't have to go anywhere near this kind of training to be 100%. Dig a little deeper before you go killing professions off, CCP.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#278 - 2014-03-20 19:25:38 UTC
Adellle Nadair wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.


No, the nullsec production problem is caused by hi-sec having utter dominance in every conceivable industry advantage, to the point that the only people doing industry in null are either RPers, supercap builders or just plain bad at maths.

OK some hi bulk, low-value stuff gets built like ratting ammo and cap boosters, but even there the quantities are small compared to what gets imported.


The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null. That gives more things to do and more ways to play. There are a large amount of players that want to be able to play casually, (relatively) safely and without the drama of nullsec life. Null should have methods to make industry more welcoming, and make it not as hard as it is now to manufacture. But giving nullsec game mechanics that make it impossible to compete in highsec is wrong.


Hi-sec will still be a massively better place to do production than 0.0 after this change.

You can complain after CCP
- Remove CONCORD
- Remove all the NPC stations
- Remove the faction police
- Allow cynos, bombs and bubbles to work in hi-sec
- Move datacore production out of hi-sec
- Move BPO sell orders out of hi-sec

While hi-sec still has those monumental advantages, this is basically complaining that the poor kid is getting a cherry while you're eating your way through a giant triple-scoop sundae.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#279 - 2014-03-20 19:25:46 UTC
I remember how the huge loot nerf they did a couple years ago was supposed to "fix" mining and still you need to run 3 accounts to make the same isk / hour mining as you do ratting.

I've watched as they introduced incursions which pay out in massive amounts of server created isk which is new money introduced to the game which inflates all prices and is a defacto nerf to all other income streams.

Now more recently we've had the bounty nerf and yet prices continue to click upward. The price of ships and PLEXs keep going up and up as our ability to earn isk is steadily driven downward. The logical outcome of this is that more game time needs to be spent to earn the isk for lost ships. To me that can only mean one thing more conservative game play or spoken more directly more time mining / ratting and less time PvPing which in the past has been the opposite of what CCP had professed as their goal.

After years of reading these blogs and seeing the results I can only conclude one of two things. Either the CCP Devs are totally and completely incompetent or they are lying. Spoken more directly option 2 would be that they are working behind the scenes to reduce the amount of players that can pay for game time with in game money. Since they have allowed PLEXs to be moved and thus lost to the RNG gods and with the aurum scandal a few years back and now ship painting for aurum it seems like option 2 is more likely.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Sir HyperChrist
Persnickety Pilots
#280 - 2014-03-20 19:26:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir HyperChrist
Weaselior wrote:
Adellle Nadair wrote:

The attitude that nullsec is the only way to play the game and that everyone needs to take part is wrong. It is perfectly acceptable to play and do things in highsec. Highsec should always have the ability to do most things as well as null.

wrong


Exactly: 0-sec should be better in every aspect over highsec: more trit miners needed in null, I take it you're the mining director? (AFK) Blink