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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

First post First post First post
Author
sudobaal theblooded
Perkone
Caldari State
#241 - 2014-03-20 18:47:29 UTC
but then will this revamp also mean that if you get max skills in reprocessing you get more yeild out of your crystals also ? or is that part not changed??
Sir HyperChrist
Persnickety Pilots
#242 - 2014-03-20 18:48:13 UTC
I'm just wondering: why does 1 unit of ore, esp compressed veldspar, yield more volume worth of minerals? It's unnatural, unless the tritanium itself is honeycombed or something.

If all intermediary materials were volume and density consistent, there would be no need for compression and stuff: the refined end material would always be best for transportation.

I suggest making all minerals 20 times less volume, so 20 times more dense, and then get rid of both compressing using guns, and compressors in posses or rorquals. It deletes a lot of "Tedious" from the game.....
Soaran Sikadi
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#243 - 2014-03-20 18:52:36 UTC
This seems like a huge nerf for alchemy done outside of sov null. While Ytterbium is going to fix the 50% drop in yield in all alchemy, the lack of a strong refining station is going to hit alchemy especially hard. This is in part because the refining array module only gives its balancing high efficiency refines to ore and ice. This seems to cut into the ability to run alchemy reactions of non-sovholders pretty heavy, by giving the max base refine for them as 50%. The sovholders already have a fuel bonus in producing the reacted goo, and are now getting an additional (relative) bonus due to having much higher potential refine.

My understanding is that the primary purpose of this change is to nerf mineral compression and buff local mining/industry, but it seems that alchemy as a whole was not properly considered in this rebalance, especially considering the earlier oversight with ore/ice having yields increased at the same rate as alchemy products.

I feel that the proposed changes should probably gone over with a fresh eye to consider what effect each change will have on it, especially as one of the main purposes of alchemy's introduction was to break up large moon cartels. Giving sov null a heavy bonus to the alchemy means that they can at any time price e.g. npcnull out of running these reactions, making it potentially ineffective.

tl;dr
This nerfs alchemy extremely hard for anyone who does not hold sov. I don't think this was intentional.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#244 - 2014-03-20 18:55:08 UTC
You can summarize a lot of the complaints in this thread with the phrase, "this change nerfs playing eve alone." To that, I say good -- eve is a terrible game without other people. Anything that encourages people to band into player groups can only help the game's health overall.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#245 - 2014-03-20 18:55:47 UTC
SOV OUTPOST UPGRADES DO NOT AFFECT ALCHEMY REFINES OR ANY OTHER SCRAPMETAL REFINES AND EVERYONE DOES THOSE AT EXACTLY THE SAME % STOP WHINING ABOUT ALCHEMY


(except 30% npc stations lawl)

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#246 - 2014-03-20 18:56:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Querns
Soaran Sikadi wrote:
This seems like a huge nerf for alchemy done outside of sov null. While Ytterbium is going to fix the 50% drop in yield in all alchemy, the lack of a strong refining station is going to hit alchemy especially hard. This is in part because the refining array module only gives its balancing high efficiency refines to ore and ice. This seems to cut into the ability to run alchemy reactions of non-sovholders pretty heavy, by giving the max base refine for them as 50%. The sovholders already have a fuel bonus in producing the reacted goo, and are now getting an additional (relative) bonus due to having much higher potential refine.

My understanding is that the primary purpose of this change is to nerf mineral compression and buff local mining/industry, but it seems that alchemy as a whole was not properly considered in this rebalance, especially considering the earlier oversight with ore/ice having yields increased at the same rate as alchemy products.

I feel that the proposed changes should probably gone over with a fresh eye to consider what effect each change will have on it, especially as one of the main purposes of alchemy's introduction was to break up large moon cartels. Giving sov null a heavy bonus to the alchemy means that they can at any time price e.g. npcnull out of running these reactions, making it potentially ineffective.

tl;dr
This nerfs alchemy extremely hard for anyone who does not hold sov. I don't think this was intentional.

You are interpreting the changes incorrectly. All scrapmetal refines are hard locked at 50-55%. Outpost efficiency boosts do not affect scrap metal reprocessing.

e: ^^^^ :argh:

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Berluth Luthian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#247 - 2014-03-20 18:56:56 UTC
Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#248 - 2014-03-20 18:58:11 UTC
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.

Sounds like you need a better alliance.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
Goonswarm Federation
#249 - 2014-03-20 18:59:06 UTC
so this is the industry revamp?

what about the terrible UI?

what about all the pointless clicking?

this is the result of the industry survey? really?

OMG when can i get a pic here

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#250 - 2014-03-20 19:00:25 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
so this is the industry revamp?

what about the terrible UI?

what about all the pointless clicking?

this is the result of the industry survey? really?

this is the first post about a patch three months away

stop acting like it is the entire patch you nutjob

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Mukuro Gravedigger
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#251 - 2014-03-20 19:00:32 UTC
Sir HyperChrist wrote:
I'm just wondering: why does 1 unit of ore, esp compressed veldspar, yield more volume worth of minerals? It's unnatural, unless the tritanium itself is "armor layered" or something.

Since CCP seems to have a limited vocabulary and prefer blanket encasing various detailed words as but one word, I adjusted your quote and removed "honeycombed".
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#252 - 2014-03-20 19:00:42 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
so this is the industry revamp?

what about the terrible UI?

what about all the pointless clicking?

this is the result of the industry survey? really?

Could I interest you in a "Jump To Conclusions" mat?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Sir HyperChrist
Persnickety Pilots
#253 - 2014-03-20 19:01:18 UTC
Querns wrote:
You can summarize a lot of the complaints in this thread with the phrase, "this change nerfs playing eve alone." To that, I say good -- eve is a terrible game without other people. Anything that encourages people to band into player groups can only help the game's health overall.


yes!
lets add more tedious stuff to divide amongst the people of EVE!
Marcia en Welle
Doomheim
#254 - 2014-03-20 19:01:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcia en Welle
After some thought I can see two major problems with these changes.

1. Although initially this change appears that it should help the Rorqual, by adding a POS structure which can do exactly the same thing without the cost of using fuel and going into industrial core mode, it is yet again is another kick in the teeth to the ship. Hopefully the whole issue of the Rorqual can be addressed at some point soon.

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
That's ok, I'm apparently very good at confusing people.

NPC station base reprocessing rate can either be 35% or 50%. After the change, with max skills and the implant you will get 72.4% from a 50% base NPC station.

However, we wanted base Reprocessing Array rates to be higher than NPC stations, thus at 52 and 54%. However, since skills are not taken into account for those, we set them up to artificially count as if you have max skills + implant, thus giving them 75.3% and 78.1%.

Outposts will still be on top of those, with a base rate of 60% when fulling upgraded. As such, with max skills and the implant you'll get a maximum reprocessing rate of 86.8% there.


2. Although I am loving the changes to null sec outposts, it is absolutely silly that a maximum skilled refiner in a 50% station can get 72.4%, whereas a fresh newb with no skills at all can achieve 78.1% in a POS.

Two things I would change:


  • Bring npc low sec and npc null sec stations up to the current levels which the POS modules can achieve respectively.

  • Add the skill requirement for POS modules.


Also I'd like to point out this is a massive buff to WH residents, perhaps unnecessarily seeing as CCP state that they do not want people living in WHs. Now WH residents will be able to cut themselves off almost completely.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#255 - 2014-03-20 19:01:32 UTC
Querns wrote:
You can summarize a lot of the complaints in this thread with the phrase, "this change nerfs playing eve alone." To that, I say good -- eve is a terrible game without other people. Anything that encourages people to band into player groups can only help the game's health overall.


Not every organization is blessed with the well oiled machine that I'm enjoying to be a part of called CFC.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
Goonswarm Federation
#256 - 2014-03-20 19:02:03 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
so this is the industry revamp?

what about the terrible UI?

what about all the pointless clicking?

this is the result of the industry survey? really?

this is the first post about a patch three months away

stop acting like it is the entire patch you nutjob



lol just asking questions, be nice to know there was more to the patch than a few number changes is all

OMG when can i get a pic here

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#257 - 2014-03-20 19:04:00 UTC
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.


No, the nullsec production problem is caused by hi-sec having utter dominance in every conceivable industry advantage, to the point that the only people doing industry in null are either RPers, supercap builders or just plain bad at maths.

OK some hi bulk, low-value stuff gets built like ratting ammo and cap boosters, but even there the quantities are small compared to what gets imported.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Jamie Clark
Zeonic Federation
#258 - 2014-03-20 19:05:42 UTC
so what happened to Medium Intensive Refining Array i keep reading and did not find any thing.

So can you change the ore sites back so you have to scan for them. That would make mining better again and get use of the pos refining in wh space.

Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#259 - 2014-03-20 19:05:57 UTC
Looks nice Blink

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#260 - 2014-03-20 19:07:41 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Isn't a lot of the nullsec production problem, partly a nullsec culture problem. When alliances are run from the mentality that 'every body in a CTA matters' then you sort of alienate really productive indy pilots. So it is up to null sec 'culture leaders' to empower their own industrial base.


No, the nullsec production problem is caused by hi-sec having utter dominance in every conceivable industry advantage, to the point that the only people doing industry in null are either RPers, supercap builders or just plain bad at maths.

OK some hi bulk, low-value stuff gets built like ratting ammo and cap boosters, but even there the quantities are small compared to what gets imported.



This is where it's worth listening to the declarations of war podcast, for the industry panel that was recently recorded. It's not out yet, but it touches on this topic Smile


(Malcanis isn't wrong.)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter