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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#21 - 2014-03-20 14:57:35 UTC
Fancy ui!

And this will make a whole lot of change, looking forward to see the outcome.

/c

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Darkblad
Doomheim
#22 - 2014-03-20 14:58:38 UTC
With my updated complete(ly German language) mining guide my first reaction after taking a peek @ the blog was just like thisTwisted
I'm curious about the impact this will have on the community, even after one or more baguettes.

NPE – ISD – RIP
Efraya
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#23 - 2014-03-20 14:58:59 UTC
Removing the arbitrary values for batch sizes on ore greatly simplifies things. Moving in the right direction CCP. GG WP

[b][center]WSpace; Dead space.[/center] [center]Lady Spank for forum mod[/center][/b]
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#24 - 2014-03-20 14:59:01 UTC
CCP does something positive. + 1

Yaay!!!!
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-03-20 15:00:09 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I might have missed it, but do starbase refining arrays now take skills into consideration?


Not for now, but they have been changed in such a way they give you 52 / 54% yield reprocess as if you had perfect skills, so that is a huge incentive to use them if you don't have all skills / implants trained. Ice will also be affected by it (no more 100% reprocess for ice in Starbase Reprocessing Arrays).

This may change later on though.

With the cost to operate and risk involved in using starbase refining arrays 52/54% seems a little low, I would think the optimal refining should need to be performed at player controlled structures and not NPC stations.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Sarhyl Connaly
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-03-20 15:02:32 UTC
Maybe you could name the interface tab, if not the skill, 'Refining and Reprocessing.' But honestly, I can't think up a solo word that would be better than 'Reprocessing' myself. I suppose we're alright on the technical ground that some process must have let to the asteroids forming in the first place, though not really an industrial kind.....

I like the interface mock-ups very much, can we have one for manufacturing? Big smile

I write Afterburning Weasels.

We're all faffing about. Why not enjoy it?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#27 - 2014-03-20 15:03:22 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I might have missed it, but do starbase refining arrays now take skills into consideration?


Not for now, but they have been changed in such a way they give you 52 / 54% yield reprocess as if you had perfect skills, so that is a huge incentive to use them if you don't have all skills / implants trained. Ice will also be affected by it (no more 100% reprocess for ice in Starbase Reprocessing Arrays).

This may change later on though.

With the cost to operate and risk involved in using starbase refining arrays 52/54% seems a little low, I would think the optimal refining should need to be performed at player controlled structures and not NPC stations.



This. Very much this.

(I'm pretty certain this was talked about at the CSM9 industry panel that should be going up on Declarations of war (.com) soon)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#28 - 2014-03-20 15:03:25 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I might have missed it, but do starbase refining arrays now take skills into consideration?


Not for now, but they have been changed in such a way they give you 52 / 54% yield reprocess as if you had perfect skills, so that is a huge incentive to use them if you don't have all skills / implants trained. Ice will also be affected by it (no more 100% reprocess for ice in Starbase Reprocessing Arrays).

This may change later on though.


Pretty please with Dark Glitter on top?

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE
#29 - 2014-03-20 15:06:40 UTC
::Slow clap::


I read this dev blog...and I am still in disbelief. Everything looks ::cough:: Awesome.

I think you actually managed to get this one right out of the gate.

For years it never occurred to me that reprocessing could have been made better. This dev blog exceeded my expectations and I am glad to hear it will fix many other problems in EVE. The UI interface looks amazing and worthwhile.



QuestionAm I right to assume, people can actually reprocess ore in a Wormhole now too without loss?Question

Holy $hit if that is correct. Now with increased risks mining in a WH, you can actually have something to balance it out. Awesome.


One more question:

"A character that has perfect skills / standings who reprocesses at a 50% station with all skills maxed but without the 4% implant will have 2.8% less reprocessed minerals than currently. Again, that is an intended behavior, as we want players to invest in reprocessing to get the most out of it."

QuestionDoes this mean that you will HAVE To use implants to get 100%?Question

If so I disagree with this philosophy as the rest of the game does not work this way. I.e. People use implants mostly to make up for skills lacking and then sometimes to take it to 105% - not to get to 100%.

Please reconsider if that is the case...it is immersion breaking imho.

Thanks for a great dev blog and new summer feature though. My crew will really be looking forward to this.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2014-03-20 15:06:58 UTC
Great change.

What's happening to conquerable stations? Do conquerable refineries remain 50% (and un-upgradable) instantly rendering them obsolete? Do conquerable factories remain refinery-free? I understand if the answer is yes, too much trouble to fix them/balance them for too little gain but I'd like to make sure.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Bagehi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-03-20 15:07:33 UTC
Plug in Baby wrote:
Am I correct in thinking the vast majority of Capital manufacture will essentially be stopped by this?

I'm interested to know what % of capitals produced are made from reprocessed ores, I can imagine its pretty massive.

Nope. Just means more runs into low sec because you can't run modules for compression. So you'll have to haul minerals to low sec, compress in a rorqual, haul to destination. Means more gank opportunities in low sec, more risk for producers, and higher capital prices.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#32 - 2014-03-20 15:08:24 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I might have missed it, but do starbase refining arrays now take skills into consideration?


Not for now, but they have been changed in such a way they give you 52 / 54% yield reprocess as if you had perfect skills, so that is a huge incentive to use them if you don't have all skills / implants trained. Ice will also be affected by it (no more 100% reprocess for ice in Starbase Reprocessing Arrays).

This may change later on though.

With the cost to operate and risk involved in using starbase refining arrays 52/54% seems a little low, I would think the optimal refining should need to be performed at player controlled structures and not NPC stations.



This. Very much this.

(I'm pretty certain this was talked about at the CSM9 industry panel that should be going up on Declarations of war (.com) soon)


There was a discussion on whereas player Outposts or Starbase Reprocessing Arrays should come out on top of the reprocessing race - so far we prefer Outpost to have the better rates since it's significantly more expensive to fully upgrade a Minmatar outpost to the last improvement.

But in all cases, Starbase Reprocessing Arrays are better than NPC stations. As mentioned before, we have authored the Starbase Reprocessing Array as if you had perfect skills; so in reality they give you a 75.3% and 78.1% reprocesing rate.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2014-03-20 15:09:41 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

With the cost to operate and risk involved in using starbase refining arrays 52/54% seems a little low, I would think the optimal refining should need to be performed at player controlled structures and not NPC stations.

They are better than all NPC stations.

I also think they're already somewhat high. I'm not a fan of skill-free refining that's as good as an upgraded outpost that costs something like 40b. This change is so far-reaching and great I don't want to complain but the refining arrays are certainly on the "good enough, probably too good" side and definitely not on the "needs a buff" side.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#34 - 2014-03-20 15:11:31 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
yay a dev blog... i was afraid i might have to work today... good to see i have distractions :)

okay i am not a mining guy or indy guy... so i take it as this is a good thing?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#35 - 2014-03-20 15:11:52 UTC
Bagehi wrote:
Plug in Baby wrote:
Am I correct in thinking the vast majority of Capital manufacture will essentially be stopped by this?

I'm interested to know what % of capitals produced are made from reprocessed ores, I can imagine its pretty massive.

Nope. Just means more runs into low sec because you can't run modules for compression. So you'll have to haul minerals to low sec, compress in a rorqual, haul to destination. Means more gank opportunities in low sec, more risk for producers, and higher capital prices.



Nope.

You missed that the compression array can be stuck in a Highsec POS (and WH for that matter). So you can skip the Rorqual (Unless you're using it for hauling)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Plug in Baby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-03-20 15:12:06 UTC
Bagehi wrote:
Plug in Baby wrote:
Am I correct in thinking the vast majority of Capital manufacture will essentially be stopped by this?

I'm interested to know what % of capitals produced are made from reprocessed ores, I can imagine its pretty massive.

Nope. Just means more runs into low sec because you can't run modules for compression. So you'll have to haul minerals to low sec, compress in a rorqual, haul to destination. Means more gank opportunities in low sec, more risk for producers, and higher capital prices.


I'm pretty sure those are reasons for plenty of people stopping building caps. I'm sure plenty of people will be thrilled to sit in freighters for hours at a time waiting for their defence fleet to get hot dropped just to build a week's worth of caps.

This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#37 - 2014-03-20 15:12:42 UTC
Ms Michigan wrote:
::Slow clap::


I read this dev blog...and I am still in disbelief. Everything looks ::cough:: Awesome.

I think you actually managed to get this one right out of the gate.

For years it never occurred to me that reprocessing could have been made better. This dev blog exceeded my expectations and I am glad to hear it will fix many other problems in EVE. The UI interface looks amazing and worthwhile.



QuestionAm I right to assume, people can actually reprocess ore in a Wormhole now too without loss?Question

Holy $hit if that is correct. Now with increased risks mining in a WH, you can actually have something to balance it out. Awesome.


One more question:

"A character that has perfect skills / standings who reprocesses at a 50% station with all skills maxed but without the 4% implant will have 2.8% less reprocessed minerals than currently. Again, that is an intended behavior, as we want players to invest in reprocessing to get the most out of it."

QuestionDoes this mean that you will HAVE To use implants to get 100%?Question

If so I disagree with this philosophy as the rest of the game does not work this way. I.e. People use implants mostly to make up for skills lacking and then sometimes to take it to 105% - not to get to 100%.

Please reconsider if that is the case...it is immersion breaking imho.

Thanks for a great dev blog and new summer feature though. My crew will really be looking forward to this.


You will need the 4% reprocessing implant if you want to reach the old rates yes. We also discussed the point you mention, but in the end we didn't want to increase reprocessing rates for high-security NPC stations, and as such counted the implant as base for the change.
Raquel Smith
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-03-20 15:16:14 UTC
Pretty miserable changes to Scrapmetal Processing.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-03-20 15:17:05 UTC
Plug in Baby wrote:
Bagehi wrote:
Plug in Baby wrote:
Am I correct in thinking the vast majority of Capital manufacture will essentially be stopped by this?

I'm interested to know what % of capitals produced are made from reprocessed ores, I can imagine its pretty massive.

Nope. Just means more runs into low sec because you can't run modules for compression. So you'll have to haul minerals to low sec, compress in a rorqual, haul to destination. Means more gank opportunities in low sec, more risk for producers, and higher capital prices.


I'm pretty sure those are reasons for plenty of people stopping building caps. I'm sure plenty of people will be thrilled to sit in freighters for hours at a time waiting for their defence fleet to get hot dropped just to build a week's worth of caps.


you missed the part where you can compress minerals in a highsec pos with that new compression thingy. there will probably be a market for compressed ores in the future since they make life so much easier compared to minerals.
Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE
#40 - 2014-03-20 15:17:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Ms Michigan
Thanks for the reply Ytterbium.

What ARE the numbers on perfect refine in a Wormhole now?

Also - Dev blog lacking numbers on scrapmetal reprocessing maxed. Maybe I missed it. Big devblog.