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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

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Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#3521 - 2014-02-28 21:51:40 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Crasniya wrote:
The Catch-22 is it's hard to introduce actual game mechanics before we even have a place we can interact with other people.


True, but avatar content would lead to new forms of emergent game play that in turn may spawn new game mechanics.


You mean like panhandling in Jita 4-4?

"Hey man, I've got five kids to feed..."
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#3522 - 2014-02-28 22:23:45 UTC
Janden Rynd wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:


After satisfactorily addressing the core mechanic issues of existing gameplay that are broken.



So, never then? There will always be issues that need improvement, and things that need fixing.


Nonresponsive. Even sadder because you directly quoted that which you failed to properly address.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#3523 - 2014-03-01 12:38:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Varius Xeral wrote:

People were upset both because the avatar gameplay given was so bad and because the spaceship game was ignored for almost two years to make it. People will need to feel that the spaceship game has generally been properly addressed before they're prepared to see resources moved back to avatar gameplay, whatever the perceived outcome of the effort is.


Yes, and no. Yes, the game was ignored and the players were angry (rightfully so). No, that being ignored had nothing to do with Avatar content. It didn't take CCP 2 years to build our CQs, they developed a games engine (reinvented the wheel when they should have just bought one) and started working on Dust and World of Darkness in that time.

We were ignored because CCP got greedy and spread their resources too thin, not because CCP had a dream of Avatar content.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#3524 - 2014-03-01 15:28:04 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:

People were upset both because the avatar gameplay given was so bad and because the spaceship game was ignored for almost two years to make it. People will need to feel that the spaceship game has generally been properly addressed before they're prepared to see resources moved back to avatar gameplay, whatever the perceived outcome of the effort is.


Yes, and no. Yes, the game was ignored and the players were angry (rightfully so). No, that being ignored had nothing to do with Avatar content. It didn't take CCP 2 years to build our CQs, they developed a games engine (reinvented the wheel when they should have just bought one) and started working on Dust and World of Darkness in that time.

We were ignored because CCP got greedy and spread their resources too thin, not because CCP had a dream of Avatar content.


That's a fair correction. Thank you.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#3525 - 2014-03-03 08:58:50 UTC
Janden Rynd wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
So the trick to avoiding more riots is to make the next avatar-content expansion not lackluster.


After satisfactorily addressing the core mechanic issues of existing gameplay that are broken.



So, never then? There will always be issues that need improvement, and things that need fixing. Should CCP halt all new content indefinitely until the game reaches some impossible ideal of perfection? If that's the design philosophy you want to encourage, you will never see another new feature in this game, ever.

Developing new features while iterating and improving existing features in parallel is the best way for a live MMO to go. WIS just needs to be one of those features getting some iteration.


As if to prove this point I just checked the features and ideas section to note that the t1 frigs and cruisers are having yet another balance pass.

A game as complex as eve can never truly be perfect.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#3526 - 2014-03-03 15:06:12 UTC
Congrats on "proving" a nonresponsive, and thereby irrelevant, point.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#3527 - 2014-03-03 17:06:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Arduemont wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:

People were upset both because the avatar gameplay given was so bad and because the spaceship game was ignored for almost two years to make it. People will need to feel that the spaceship game has generally been properly addressed before they're prepared to see resources moved back to avatar gameplay, whatever the perceived outcome of the effort is.


Yes, and no. Yes, the game was ignored and the players were angry (rightfully so). No, that being ignored had nothing to do with Avatar content. It didn't take CCP 2 years to build our CQs, they developed a games engine (reinvented the wheel when they should have just bought one) and started working on Dust and World of Darkness in that time.

We were ignored because CCP got greedy and spread their resources too thin, not because CCP had a dream of Avatar content.


Than I suppose you are spitting angry all the time now.

Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
As if to prove this point I just checked the features and ideas section to note that the t1 frigs and cruisers are having yet another balance pass.

A game as complex as eve can never truly be perfect.


CCP latest rebalancing of caracal:
+0.01 inertia
..
.
What?
That's all folks.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#3528 - 2014-03-04 09:54:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Dragon Khamez
Varius Xeral wrote:
Congrats on "proving" a nonresponsive, and thereby irrelevant, point.



I don't mean to be disrespectful and wouldn't have contributed my reply to the thread had I not thought that it was relevant. We're all friends here, this is just an exchange of ideas not an attack on you personally.

All I meant to say that I don't believe that there will ever be a time when the player base of Eve online considers Eve to be balanced, you'll always have players claiming that something or other is OP whilst devs keep on nerfing things they deem to be too popular. This is continual work, a bit like painting one of those huge suspension bridges where a small workforce takes a long time to paint the bridge having to start again at the beginning when the job is done on account of the fact that the old paint has worn off and the structure has to be protected.

It's not a bad analogy of CCP, not only are they continuously repainting Eve Online but having a small workforce means that they take a long time to do so, but unlike the guys on the suspension bridge, CCP have decided to paint not just one bridge but four big bridges (Eve, Dust, Valkyrie, WOD) and one small bridge (Phone Apps) without expanding the crew.

Everyone looks at star citizen (which I am sure will be a disappointment) as the ideal game which has spaceships, the market place, avatar interaction and just about everything that we have in eve without actually being eve, but if CCP focused their entire attention on the only product they've got that is paying their bills (Eve Online) then nobody would be talking about Star Citizen as we'd have it all here in Eve Online.

I love Eve and I love New Eden as unlike other game worlds this one feels real, it's a simulation of real human interaction via makets, spaceships, scamming, villainy and the cold, black, beating hearts of the sociopaths that grapple with power out there amongst the lawless places. It's beautiful because it's a mirror of real life and that's why I want to see avatar interactions so that all of the above can be played out face to face, person to person, up close and personal where it counts just like in real life.

Edit: I just found this pic on another forum here. The guy is reporting a bug in the client in a humorous way. but he's idden his system information and blanked out his intel/corp channels in his screenshot. This doesn't happen anywhere else in the gaming world but it's routine here.

http://i.imgur.com/ImsKvMi.jpg

This is why I love Eve Online!

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#3529 - 2014-03-04 12:04:54 UTC
Well from looking at things all they would need for a start would be to have a room where you can invite other people ie. works the same way as the regular chat in EVE and if the player happens to be in space then the character would be shown on a wall screen in CQ and chat displayed on screen and in the text as usual (or rather all text could be on channel just avatars in a room).

People would be prompted of the invite to arrive at station x in system x for a meeting to take place, click yes and you would find your self in CQ with the person who invited you.

For a start the "room chat" could be limited to say 5 people max in person and the rest would be in channel.

It doesn't have to be more then that to have a meaningful game play.
Salvos Rhoska
#3530 - 2014-03-04 12:46:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


Edit: I just found this pic on another forum here. The guy is reporting a bug in the client in a humorous way. but he's idden his system information and blanked out his intel/corp channels in his screenshot. This doesn't happen anywhere else in the gaming world but it's routine here.

http://i.imgur.com/ImsKvMi.jpg

This is why I love Eve Online!


Well, not to be a nitpicker, but this happens a lot in the gaming world. One cursory reason (not in this instance though) is that many bugs are especially apparent and prevalent when a player really pushes the limits of the system ie: in many cases, when they are deliberately exploiting the system. That makes it necessary to protect ones identity when issuing images of it publically (though ofc not necessary when reporting straight to the games own staff).

I have tons of such images from Warhammer Online, for example, where it was necessary to protect both my own and the people I was observing, identity while still attempting to draw attention to the bug/exploit.

Anyways, just an aside. I don't disagree with your post. This just was one small point I wanted to raise.

On the specific image here, I expect the person is in fleet with his own alt, and wants to keep the association of the two characters unknown to others (maybe even to his own Corp mates).

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#3531 - 2014-03-04 15:29:32 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
I don't mean to be disrespectful and wouldn't have contributed my reply to the thread had I not thought that it was relevant. We're all friends here, this is just an exchange of ideas not an attack on you personally.


It has nothing to do with personal attacks and everything to do with knocking down strawmen.

Again, congratulations on providing proof against a position that was never taken.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Tomiko Kawase
Perkone
#3532 - 2014-03-05 11:21:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tomiko Kawase
Looks like the EVE 'Source' Coat is the hideous 'Executor' Coat.

Ugh.

I don't know what I was expecting. At least it's not a Structure Dress, I guess?

edit: Whoever is designing the NEO shirts, why not just use the logo from the stream? The graphic on them is so small and complex, you can barely tell what it is. Disappointing...

Bombastic vintage soul with a driving groove, brass & male vocal
Kudos12345
Doomheim
#3533 - 2014-03-05 12:35:07 UTC
Casinos in Space,


poker, black jack and so on.

That's what i would wanna do with my avatar.
Flamespar
WarRavens
#3534 - 2014-03-05 20:28:29 UTC
Tomiko Kawase wrote:
Looks like the EVE 'Source' Coat is the hideous 'Executor' Coat.

Ugh.

I don't know what I was expecting. At least it's not a Structure Dress, I guess?

edit: Whoever is designing the NEO shirts, why not just use the logo from the stream? The graphic on them is so small and complex, you can barely tell what it is. Disappointing...


Yeah I think they are scraping the bottom of the barrel a bit. Shame.
Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#3535 - 2014-03-06 18:43:56 UTC
Hopefully, ship paint should lead to better Nex Store development, which should lead to more WiS development. In particular, if ship paint can self-fund more work on ship paint, it'll demonstrate the likelihood that WiS content can self-fund more work on WiS content.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net
Tomiko Kawase
Perkone
#3536 - 2014-03-06 21:13:45 UTC
Purchases of WiS content from the NEX store would require stuff that doesn't look like the Structure Dress.

Not too hopeful there.

Bombastic vintage soul with a driving groove, brass & male vocal
Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#3537 - 2014-03-06 21:45:04 UTC
Tomiko Kawase wrote:
Purchases of WiS content from the NEX store would require stuff that doesn't look like the Structure Dress.

Not too hopeful there.


Getting more new models for clothes would go along with proving that the AUR model can have a place in EVE, and that vanity items can fund their own development.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#3538 - 2014-03-06 22:33:55 UTC
Crasniya wrote:
Tomiko Kawase wrote:
Purchases of WiS content from the NEX store would require stuff that doesn't look like the Structure Dress.

Not too hopeful there.


Getting more new models for clothes would go along with proving that the AUR model can have a place in EVE, and that vanity items can fund their own development.


They are going to give it a try with ship skins I hope it spreads to more avatar clothing and options for us.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Flamespar
WarRavens
#3539 - 2014-03-07 00:38:15 UTC
It'll be interesting to see how the destructible ship skins sell compared to the permanent clothing items.
Commissar Kate
Kesukka
#3540 - 2014-03-07 00:40:31 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Crasniya wrote:
Tomiko Kawase wrote:
Purchases of WiS content from the NEX store would require stuff that doesn't look like the Structure Dress.

Not too hopeful there.


Getting more new models for clothes would go along with proving that the AUR model can have a place in EVE, and that vanity items can fund their own development.


They are going to give it a try with ship skins I hope it spreads to more avatar clothing and options for us.


I hope it does too. I want the White "Avenue" tank top very badly. The assets are in the game for it and all CCP needs to do is start selling it.

-k8

My Fanclub