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Null sec what chance does the little guy have

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Author
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#321 - 2014-02-14 17:54:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Jenn aSide wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lots of high sec posters


Stopped reading here.

It seems that anybody who disagrees with you automagically lives in high sec. Well, I live in nullsec, so there goes that.


Where you live is irrelevant. You can take the rat out of the hood but they's still a hoodrat.


That proves my point. I live in nullsec - but because I disagree with you post in defense of the high sec slanted imbalance with understanding it, I am a "highsec poster."

Roll


Fixed.


Pointing out that nerfing highsec won't magically fix nullsec does not mean I'm "posting with a high sec slant" or whatever the hell.

It's called being logical. A lot of the people I play with - you couldn't pay to participate in a tidi fight. Well, maybe you could. But you would have to pay them a lot.

Grinding structures? Same thing. I and many others associate holding sov with grinding and boredom.

Nullsec overall can be quite fun - but the aspects of sov and ownership are horrid.

Nerfing highsec income will not make it any more fun.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#322 - 2014-02-14 17:56:03 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Nullsec overall can be quite fun - but the aspects of sov and ownership are horrid. Nerfing highsec income will not make it any more fun.


It'll be a step in the right direction, though.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#323 - 2014-02-14 18:02:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Pinky Hops wrote:


Pointing out that nerfing highsec won't magically fix nullsec does not mean I'm "posting with a high sec slant" or whatever the hell.

It's called being logical. A lot of the people I play with - you couldn't pay to participate in a tidi fight. Well, maybe you could. But you would have to pay them a lot.

Grinding structures? Same thing. I and many others associate holding sov with grinding and boredom.

Nullsec overall can be quite fun - but the aspects of sov and ownership are horrid.

Nerfing highsec income will not make it any more fun.


Look at the ridicules conclusions you jump to (and then call logic). Who said anything about grinding structures, tidi or anything else?

And no one said nerfing high sec would make null sec fun. We said that nerfing certain aspects of the things in high sec that are to good helps restore a balance that would then let those "so inclined" not be chained to high sec with industry and pve alts. If it also encourages others to venture out of high that's great but not necessary.



Not trying to be too rel life here but there is a real life correlation with how high sec works in relation to the rest of EVE: Why go look for a job that pays a slight bit better but requires you to actually get up in the morning when you can sit on your tuff and someone will send you a check for enough money for you to get by while you lounge in your underwear? Sure, you can say "well jobs need to pay better" but as long as free checks are coming who gives a damn?
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#324 - 2014-02-14 18:20:15 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Look at the ridicules conclusions you jump to (and then call logic). Who said anything about grinding structures, tidi or anything else?


The thread is about gaining and keeping sov.

Grinding structures and tidi fights are a natural part of that.

Jenn aSide wrote:
And no one said nerfing high sec would make null sec fun. We said that nerfing certain aspects of the things in high sec that are to good helps restore a balance that would then let those "so inclined" not be chained to high sec with industry and pve alts. If it also encourages others to venture out of high that's great but not necessary.


Nobody is chaining you to highsec. Fozzie doesn't hunt you down in the middle of the night and slap your behind if you leave highsec.

I'm sure you could move your alts to nullsec without bankrupting yourself.


Jenn aSide wrote:
Not trying to be too rel life here but there is a real life correlation with how high sec works in relation to the rest of EVE: Why go look for a job that pays a slight bit better but requires you to actually get up in the morning when you can sit on your tuff and someone will send you a check for enough money for you to get by while you lounge in your underwear? Sure, you can say "well jobs need to pay better" but as long as free checks are coming who gives a damn?


I don't really see any correlation to highsec here. There's no free checks in this game. The closest comparison I can think of is scamming people.

I suppose there is a loose correlation since scammers live in highsec.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#325 - 2014-02-14 18:32:43 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


Did you miss the qualifier: If you don't use a system you get no RF timers on your IHUB's & Stations, thereby enabling the system to fall from a single attack.

I fully support timers on systems you are using. I fully support the CFC owning all of nullsec if they can take it. I don't support easily holding onto it unless they use it.

Also, Marlona sky had a very interesting idea to curb power projection in EvE, something that is truly needed. Read it, as it is a good article.


I did not miss the qualifier I showed you that it was terrible because it means we pack even more renters into nullsec. That renter space will not be vulnerable to a small group because its now our income alliance and when you mess with that you get a 1000 man fleet headed to you.

Making it worth living in over highsec, by nerfing highsec, would facilitate its use and further make the timer idea bad.

E: The power projection thing is an issue but, inconveniencing people or making the solution to the change be "more alts," isn't a good change.


Did you really just say the idea is terrible because it will encourage you to utilize your systems (albeit with renters)? lol, how can you possibly think that is a bad thing? More people in nullsec space is a GREAT thing!!!
E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy
Caldari State
#326 - 2014-02-14 18:59:30 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:


Goons would be forced to actually strategically position and defend borders, so it's a bad idea.


What stands out is the lack of understanding human nature you have. It wouldn't force goons to defend borders, it would encourage goons to fund "border protection alts" for their members to log in whenever something happens because a computer can run more than 1 client at a time lol.

It would further encourage goons to make defense fleet participation a part of rental agreements and it would encourage EVEN MORE BLUES because friends don't invade borders anyways.

Marlona has never demonstrated an understanding of Malcanis' law. To be fair, neither has CCP. Marlona's ideas would enrich goons.

Again you are letting prejudice could judgement and damp reason.


Pinky I fear you are wasting time. They are not interested in making the game better or even seeing EVE from any view point other than their own. Their ego simply could not allow them to be wrong or acknowledge that they are only interested in winning an argument.

They are not interested in talking or debating or acting like the adults they pretend to be. They fear anyone that see things from a different perspective other than their own and their massive ego’s require them to lash out.

They will continue to do you as they have previously and troll and attack until the thread is locked and then they will move on to the next…again and again.

I don’t like to see people like this get away with it either but why drag yourself to their level.

Arguing with the special forum trolls will only make them more special.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#327 - 2014-02-14 19:11:57 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:


Goons would be forced to actually strategically position and defend borders, so it's a bad idea.


What stands out is the lack of understanding human nature you have. It wouldn't force goons to defend borders, it would encourage goons to fund "border protection alts" for their members to log in whenever something happens because a computer can run more than 1 client at a time lol.

It would further encourage goons to make defense fleet participation a part of rental agreements and it would encourage EVEN MORE BLUES because friends don't invade borders anyways.

Marlona has never demonstrated an understanding of Malcanis' law. To be fair, neither has CCP. Marlona's ideas would enrich goons.

Again you are letting prejudice could judgement and damp reason.


Pinky I fear you are wasting time. They are not interested in making the game better or even seeing EVE from any view point other than their own. Their ego simply could not allow them to be wrong or acknowledge that they are only interested in winning an argument.

They are not interested in talking or debating or acting like the adults they pretend to be. They fear anyone that see things from a different perspective other than their own and their massive ego’s require them to lash out.

They will continue to do you as they have previously and troll and attack until the thread is locked and then they will move on to the next…again and again.

I don’t like to see people like this get away with it either but why drag yourself to their level.

Arguing with the special forum trolls will only make them more special.


This is all you ever do you know. What I don't get is how a man with no horse constantly tries to be all "high horse" about things lol.

What you people believe will make things worse, the would exacerbate the "null is mostly just good for renting" status quo. It doesn't make any sense since both of you claim to live in null and a high sec rebalance wouldn't negatively affect you anyways.

Are you scared that the former high sec alts freed from high sec would take your anoms or something?
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#328 - 2014-02-14 19:14:37 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
It doesn't make any sense since both of you claim to live in null and a high sec rebalance wouldn't negatively affect you anyways.


Actually, it's just because I thought about it and realized it would affect me.

Highsec is where most stuff gets produced. If you carelessly start nerfing highsec, you raise the prices of ships and modules.

And that absolutely does have a negative impact on my gameplay - as well as yours most likely.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#329 - 2014-02-14 19:21:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Pinky Hops wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
It doesn't make any sense since both of you claim to live in null and a high sec rebalance wouldn't negatively affect you anyways.


Actually, it's just because I thought about it and realized it would affect me.

Highsec is where most stuff gets produced. If you carelessly start nerfing highsec, you raise the prices of ships and modules.

And that absolutely does have a negative impact on my gameplay - as well as yours most likely.


Unless you consider that people living in their own space provides targets for people to shoot, which drives demand for ships which spurs competition that keeps prices down.. Hell, locally produced goods should be cheaper anyways because people wouldn't need to be paying 7 bil for a jump freighter and refueling them all the time (and replacing them after ganks).

What you are basically saying is that you benefit from the current imbalance and fixing the imbalance would hurt you personally. That to me sounds like, well, every real world government's foreign policy to me. Who cares if they are mass murdering child killing 'women can't go to school' rights suppressing tyrants, at least we get cheap oil.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#330 - 2014-02-14 19:28:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
Diamond Zerg wrote:
The little guy has a chance if he submits to the bigger guy.



... the word "submit" being a polite way of saying "bends over". Let's not sugarcoat this part of EVE, least of all where it pertains to Null.

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#331 - 2014-02-14 19:32:41 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Unless you consider that people living in their own space provides targets for people to shoot, which drives demand for ships which spurs competition that keeps prices down.. Hell, locally produced goods should be cheaper anyways because people wouldn't need to be paying 7 bil for a jump freighter and refueling them all the time (and replacing them after ganks).


Jump frieghters are exceptionally cheap for what they do and if you lose them to ganks often you are doing something hilariously wrong.

If Eve-Kill is to be trusted, maybe 2 jump freighters get ganked per day during weekdays, and twice that on weekends....In the entire game.

The vast majority get ganked in highsec and lowsec, with more of them dying in highsec. A small minority gets ganked in nullsec.

Locally produced goods don't happen because there's nobody to sell them to in nullsec. Not enough volume. This has been discussed extensively.

Jenn aSide wrote:
Who cares if they are mass murdering child killing 'women can't go to school' rights suppressing tyrants, at least we get cheap oil.


What? You've lost me with this recent batch of insanity.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#332 - 2014-02-14 19:36:33 UTC
Back to the OP though. It depends on what the little guy wants.

If it's to go to null sec, even sov null, you can do that easily. Before mobile depots I used to use a carrier as a 'ninja base'. Even when not doing that, i've do anomalies in low sec and npc null and when I'd get escalations, I'l jump into a BLOPs to do them. It required alts but I did all that solo and never lost my carrier. A small group could do even more than that.

If the goal is to hold space, that's unrealistic. I don't know of any kind of game that lets a small group enjoy big group rewards. It would be like trying to win the Super Bowl with a high school football team.

SOV null is organized group space, and always have been. The "small guys" mad that they can't go there and take sov from bigger groups ( even though Eve provides high sec, low sec, npc null all of which have free access space stations, and wormhole space) are just longing for the one thing they can't have.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#333 - 2014-02-14 19:39:35 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:


What? You've lost me with this recent batch of insanity.


Since everything must be spoon fed to you. It means you're stands in improperly selfish, rather than acknowledge high sec's imbalances and their affect on the wider game, you support the status quo that just so happens to benefit you with cheap ships. Not unlike how real world governments look the other way as long as the oil/blood diamonds/resources keep flowing.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#334 - 2014-02-14 19:40:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Jenn aSide wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:


What? You've lost me with this recent batch of insanity.


Since everything must be spoon fed to you. It means you're stands in improperly selfish, rather than acknowledge high sec's imbalances and their affect on the wider game, you support the status quo that just so happens to benefit you with cheap ships. Not unlike how real world governments look the other way as long as the oil/blood diamonds/resources keep flowing.


Except I disagree with your premises, which means the whole rest of your post is nonsense. Sorry.

I don't see the rampant highsec imbalance you do - maybe because I'm not batshit insane.

I see far more imbalances in nullsec (power projection, sov system, horrific tidi) than I do in highsec.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#335 - 2014-02-14 19:46:40 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:


What? You've lost me with this recent batch of insanity.


Since everything must be spoon fed to you. It means you're stands in improperly selfish, rather than acknowledge high sec's imbalances and their affect on the wider game, you support the status quo that just so happens to benefit you with cheap ships. Not unlike how real world governments look the other way as long as the oil/blood diamonds/resources keep flowing.


Except I disagree with your premises, which means the whole rest of your post is nonsense. Sorry.

I don't see the rampant highsec imbalance you do - maybe because I'm not batshit insane.


It's because you live in a world of denial. you could test it for yourself. You never have because you aren't interested in the truth and you know it.

Quote:

I see far more imbalances in nullsec (power projection, sov system, horrific tidi) than I do in highsec.


The imbalances in null sec tend to be necessary evils (I remember the game before tidi, not good) The imbalances in high sec that negatively affect sov null and other places are the result of some imperfect design choices CCP developers have made.


BrundleMeth
Black Parrot
Sylvanas Super mercenary
#336 - 2014-02-14 21:24:47 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
TL:DR, people are stupid and have short memories.

You're right I was ......sorry I forget what we were talking about...
E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy
Caldari State
#337 - 2014-02-14 21:37:30 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:


Goons would be forced to actually strategically position and defend borders, so it's a bad idea.


What stands out is the lack of understanding human nature you have. It wouldn't force goons to defend borders, it would encourage goons to fund "border protection alts" for their members to log in whenever something happens because a computer can run more than 1 client at a time lol.

It would further encourage goons to make defense fleet participation a part of rental agreements and it would encourage EVEN MORE BLUES because friends don't invade borders anyways.

Marlona has never demonstrated an understanding of Malcanis' law. To be fair, neither has CCP. Marlona's ideas would enrich goons.

Again you are letting prejudice could judgement and damp reason.


Pinky I fear you are wasting time. They are not interested in making the game better or even seeing EVE from any view point other than their own. Their ego simply could not allow them to be wrong or acknowledge that they are only interested in winning an argument.

They are not interested in talking or debating or acting like the adults they pretend to be. They fear anyone that see things from a different perspective other than their own and their massive ego’s require them to lash out.

They will continue to do you as they have previously and troll and attack until the thread is locked and then they will move on to the next…again and again.

I don’t like to see people like this get away with it either but why drag yourself to their level.

Arguing with the special forum trolls will only make them more special.


This is all you ever do you know. What I don't get is how a man with no horse constantly tries to be all "high horse" about things lol.

What you people believe will make things worse, the would exacerbate the "null is mostly just good for renting" status quo. It doesn't make any sense since both of you claim to live in null and a high sec rebalance wouldn't negatively affect you anyways.

Are you scared that the former high sec alts freed from high sec would take your anoms or something?

No I am not scared. CCP have the data and they used it to nerf bluesec. They didnt need our assuptions or drama.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#338 - 2014-02-14 21:57:22 UTC
Keep going guys. If you get up to a full page of outright insults, maybe the thread will be locked.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#339 - 2014-02-14 22:00:29 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Keep going guys. If you get up to a full page of outright insults, maybe the thread will be locked.

If I lost an argument as badly as you did I'd want the thread locked too.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise

Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#340 - 2014-02-14 22:01:56 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Keep going guys. If you get up to a full page of outright insults, maybe the thread will be locked.

If I lost an argument as badly as you did I'd want the thread locked too.


I'm not the one who wants the thread locked. This can be seen by noticing that I'm not the one polluting the thread with pointless personal attacks instead of actual rebuttals.