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Null sec what chance does the little guy have

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admiral root
Red Galaxy
#261 - 2014-02-14 15:44:30 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
i'm weak and i'm proud of it

fixed it for you


Hmm? Details, you're not making sense.


Since when does he make sense?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#262 - 2014-02-14 15:47:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Mocam
La Nariz wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:

Small guys stay small guys because they don't feel like sucking up to some Alliance's middle management, they don't have the resources to compete, or perhaps they don't have the time to dedicate to Eve's rediculous Sov mechanics and bureaucratic alliance nonsense. I sure don't. Nullsec simply isn't suitable for how we want to play, and lowsec is losing it's charm rapidly. Hisec (wardecs) and wormhole space (unrestricted PVP) are simply better, more enjoyable alternatives then living in the shadow of a colossus.


Right there we have the answer folks, people that refuse to engage in diplomacy and politics can't get anywhere in a multiplayer game.


Except it isn't even success.

Let's say hypothetically he did what you asked, and "engaged in diplomacy."

OK - now he's part of some giant blue entity that barely PvP's against eachother.

Was that even the goal?


I think you have the same disease infinity ziona has.


No but you aren't thinking too clearly.

Any group from 50-1,000 cannot go there without permission - that is the bulk of the player base in this game and many/most have been part of differing alliances over their time here.

The "smaller" groups aren't unwilling to engage in diplomacy, those are groups that are unwilling to kneel to a 10k+ coalition, paying "rent" and simply becoming a statistic in their spreadsheet based schemes. That's not too interesting to many vs flying with people you know and can work with, who also know you.

The reason SOV lands are the way they are is simple: The members living there *LIKE* the situation or they'd change it themselves - which they won't do.

As such I'd go with adding some space to the game. Something different than the currently layout so "power projection" won't work easily from SOV lands.

It has been 5 years since CCP added to the game universe (wormhole space) so it is about due to expand a bit again vs trying to revamp and "fix" portions of the game that the residents are comfortable with - especially some 20k-40k characters in SOV null who don't want their space to change beyond getting easier and requiring less time and effort from them.

A few more severs with space added would be a hell of a lot easier to engineer and manage than trying to adjust SOV lands when the bulk of those who control it, *LIKE* how it works (or,again, they would change how it works themselves).

Again - it's simply time to add more systems to the game for those not interested in how current SOV holdings but wish to claim space for their own.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#263 - 2014-02-14 15:55:53 UTC
Mocam wrote:

No but you aren't thinking too clearly.

Any group from 50-1,000 cannot go there without permission - that is the bulk of the player base in this game and many/most have been part of differing alliances over their time here.

The "smaller" groups aren't unwilling to engage in diplomacy, those are groups that are unwilling to kneel to a 10k+ coalition, paying "rent" and simply becoming a statistic in their spreadsheet based schemes. That's not too interesting to many vs flying with people you know and can work with, who also know you.

The reason SOV lands are the way they are is simple: The members living there *LIKE* the situation or they'd change it themselves - which they won't do.

As such I'd go with adding some space to the game. Something different than the currently layout so "power projection" won't work easily from SOV lands.

It has been 5 years since CCP added to the game universe (wormhole space) so it is about due to expand a bit again vs trying to revamp and "fix" portions of the game that the residents are comfortable with - especially some 20k-40k characters in SOV null who don't want their space to change beyond getting easier and requiring less time and effort from them.

A few more severs with space added would be a hell of a lot easier to engineer and manage than trying to adjust SOV lands when the bulk of those who control it, *LIKE* how it works (or,again, they would change how it works themselves).

Again - it's simply time to add more systems to the game for those not interested in how current SOV lands work but would like to lay a claim to some space.


You're also going to parrot people aren't willing to play politics or engage in diplomacy. This isn't highsec, you don't get to be stubborn and have no consequences; you have to negotiate and if you're doing so from a position of weakness you aren't going to be the one who has the power to call the shots.

It would be easier to do this if highsec were nerfed though because there would be more competition for nullsec as people pursued riches which puts more pressure on the established powers. This gives the little guy more of a diplomatic advantage because its to the established power's advantage to work with you since there are more people who want the space. Some of those people who want the space will be stubborn and trying to fight for it which while the 100 man alliance won't be able to critically harm the 1000 man alliance they will cause enough disruption to be a concern. That big alliance decides to make a deal with you to both of your advantage, the little guy gets out in null and has a friend while the big alliance has one less enemy to deal with.

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Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#264 - 2014-02-14 16:00:51 UTC
Please link all dev blogs relevant to the discussion at hand.

Considering you think comparing 10 missions to 10 forsaken hubs is conclusive evidence of imbalance, I have no possible way of predicting what you consider to be "relevant."
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#265 - 2014-02-14 16:04:36 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Pinky Hops wrote:
Please link all dev blogs relevant to the discussion at hand.

Considering you think comparing 10 missions to 10 forsaken hubs is conclusive evidence of imbalance, I have no possible way of predicting what you consider to be "relevant."


Why? You didn't change your opinion based on fact in the 150+ page thread after Tippia linked them to you, why would you do so now? Why should I expend any effort on you while you have that horrible disease?

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Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#266 - 2014-02-14 16:09:10 UTC
1 + 1 = 3

Don't ask me to prove it. You're all far too diseased and biased.

You can actually find the proof on a dev blog, but I can't be bothered to link it to you right now because I already linked it to you in the past and you said it was bullshit.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#267 - 2014-02-14 16:13:08 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
1 + 1 = 3

Don't ask me to prove it. You're all far too diseased and biased.

You can actually find the proof on a dev blog, but I can't be bothered to link it to you right now because I already linked it to you in the past and you said it was bullshit.


Prove that you form your opinion based on fact and data. We literally can't discuss anything because of that horrible mental affliction of yours until you can prove that there isn't a point to doing anything.

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#268 - 2014-02-14 16:14:04 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
1 + 1 = 3

Don't ask me to prove it. You're all far too diseased and biased.

You can actually find the proof on a dev blog, but I can't be bothered to link it to you right now because I already linked it to you in the past and you said it was bullshit.


You mean a dev blog that you will then go on to misrepresent? You should go a head and link it so that a a dozen people can be wrong about how you're looking at the whole thing wrong.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#269 - 2014-02-14 16:14:34 UTC
Man, here we go again.

I hope CCP shuts down this thread asap, given goons are derailing the thread again about ISK / hour.

Bottom line, CCP has the numbers about how much money is made where.
They see who owns the titans, who does not.
They see the ISK / tick for everyone.

I firmly believe they will be nerfing high sec again, but the goons whining in this thread, or any thread, is not how the nerf gets done. The only reason the goons whine here is when the inevitable nerf happens, they can say it ONLY happened because of their wise direction here, and how CCP finally saw the light, ignoring all the other less obvious pressure applied to destroy high sec.

Of course, a nerf to high sec is really really bad for the game in general, but great for the goons.
But they already know that.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#270 - 2014-02-14 16:15:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Jenn aSide wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
1 + 1 = 3

Don't ask me to prove it. You're all far too diseased and biased.

You can actually find the proof on a dev blog, but I can't be bothered to link it to you right now because I already linked it to you in the past and you said it was bullshit.


You mean a dev blog that you will then go on to misrepresent? You should go a head and link it so that a a dozen people can be wrong about how you're looking at the whole thing wrong.


You actually argued my own point for me. Thanks. Lol

Do you see now why I asked La Ngjdirhg to link the dev blogs he considered relevant?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#271 - 2014-02-14 16:19:00 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Man, here we go again.

I hope CCP shuts down this thread asap, given goons are derailing the thread again about ISK / hour.

Bottom line, CCP has the numbers about how much money is made where.
They see who owns the titans, who does not.
They see the ISK / tick for everyone.


THIS is hilarious.

They also had the numbers for incursions, and armor tanking in incursions. And omnidirectional tracking links. And marauders (and their web bonuses), and Empire LP.

You complained about all of that and so much more. You are known for complaining.

And now, somehow, magically, because "ccp has the numbers" they are suddenly right about it.

ROFL.

Think you for posting a post that I am going to link for every time you say anything about a CCP action they don't like. You really shouldn't be complaining, because they have the numbers .
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#272 - 2014-02-14 16:20:25 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Man, here we go again.

I hope CCP shuts down this thread asap, given goons are derailing the thread again about ISK / hour.

Bottom line, CCP has the numbers about how much money is made where.
They see who owns the titans, who does not.
They see the ISK / tick for everyone.

I firmly believe they will be nerfing high sec again, but the goons whining in this thread, or any thread, is not how the nerf gets done. The only reason the goons whine here is when the inevitable nerf happens, they can say it ONLY happened because of their wise direction here, and how CCP finally saw the light, ignoring all the other less obvious pressure applied to destroy high sec.

Of course, a nerf to high sec is really really bad for the game in general, but great for the goons.
But they already know that.


dinsdale tears fofofo!

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#273 - 2014-02-14 16:20:51 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
1 + 1 = 3

Don't ask me to prove it. You're all far too diseased and biased.

You can actually find the proof on a dev blog, but I can't be bothered to link it to you right now because I already linked it to you in the past and you said it was bullshit.


You mean a dev blog that you will then go on to misrepresent? You should go a head and link it so that a a dozen people can be wrong about how you're looking at the whole thing wrong.


You actually argued my own point for me. Thanks. Lol

Do you see now why I asked La Ngjdirhg to link the dev blogs he considered relevant?

The real point is that you don't have an honest bone in your body. You know that, stop trippin dude.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#274 - 2014-02-14 16:21:33 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Man, here we go again.

I hope CCP shuts down this thread asap, given goons are derailing the thread again about ISK / hour.

Bottom line, CCP has the numbers about how much money is made where.
They see who owns the titans, who does not.
They see the ISK / tick for everyone.

I firmly believe they will be nerfing high sec again, but the goons whining in this thread, or any thread, is not how the nerf gets done. The only reason the goons whine here is when the inevitable nerf happens, they can say it ONLY happened because of their wise direction here, and how CCP finally saw the light, ignoring all the other less obvious pressure applied to destroy high sec.

Of course, a nerf to high sec is really really bad for the game in general, but great for the goons.
But they already know that.

I agree 100%, as things are now with BLUESEC and the controlling corp and their pets, a nerf to any other space other than BLUESEC would only strengthen their hold over all.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#275 - 2014-02-14 16:22:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Jenn aSide wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
1 + 1 = 3

Don't ask me to prove it. You're all far too diseased and biased.

You can actually find the proof on a dev blog, but I can't be bothered to link it to you right now because I already linked it to you in the past and you said it was bullshit.


You mean a dev blog that you will then go on to misrepresent? You should go a head and link it so that a a dozen people can be wrong about how you're looking at the whole thing wrong.


You actually argued my own point for me. Thanks. Lol

Do you see now why I asked La Ngjdirhg to link the dev blogs he considered relevant?

The real point is that you don't have an honest bone in your body. You know that, stop trippin dude.


If we're going to talk about honesty, how is comparing 10 Forsaken Hubs to 10 Missions an honest comparison?

Roll

You of all people shouldn't be talking about "honesty."
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#276 - 2014-02-14 16:22:12 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:

You actually argued my own point for me. Thanks. Lol

Do you see now why I asked La Ngjdirhg to link the dev blogs he considered relevant?


Until you can prove that your opinion is formed on fact and data we can talk until then I hope the scientists hurry up with that cure.

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#277 - 2014-02-14 16:23:47 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:

If we're going to talk about honesty, how is comparing 10 Forsaken Hubs to 10 Missions an honest comparison?

Roll


Exactly who did that. Feel free to post it.

That's what I mean. You obviously take this stuff serious enough to lie about it, which I find extremely weird (and unworthy of someone who should be grown).
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#278 - 2014-02-14 16:23:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
And it's on again.

Look, the data is not biased or diseased or anything. It's numbers in a spreadsheet.

One's interpretation of the data is certainly subject to bias.

1. I believe the data supports the argument that there is an imbalance. People can make more ISK in HighSec than they do in NullSec.

2. I do not believe the imbalance is universal. Just because some people make more in HighSec does not mean that all people make more ISK in HighSec.

My biased interpretation is that while an imbalance exists, nerfing HighSec income across the board would not fix the imbalance in the right way. You can't just nerf the top earners in HighSec without also nerfing the low end earners.

A buff to Null income unrelated to faucets works as more of an enticement in my opinion. As the top earners in HighSec (who by many accounts are NullSec residents going where the ISK is) recognize the potential for greater income in SovNull space, they will migrate there to exploit the new wealth.

In my humble opinion, the easiest way to do this is to introduce more LP to NullSec. As has been determined by the data, LP represents 45-70% of HighSec PVE income. Establishing a means for SovNull residents to take advantage of LP increases their income per hour without increasing the faucet from bounties (the very item that was nerfed to remedy a situation that CCP saw as problematic).

In addition, as more LP is utilized through New Eden, the sinks may very well overrun the faucets and the possibility of ISK scarcity could manifest. At that point, CCP can look at rolling back some of the nerfs to Anoms to stabilize the economy and, as a side effect, further increase the SovNull grunts income.

That is only my biased interpretation of the data.

I am sure that everyone else has their own biased opinion also. But please use the data available or get your own data, present it, and base your biased interpretations on that.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#279 - 2014-02-14 16:25:01 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:

You actually argued my own point for me. Thanks. Lol

Do you see now why I asked La Ngjdirhg to link the dev blogs he considered relevant?


Until you can prove that your opinion is formed on fact and data we can talk until then I hope the scientists hurry up with that cure.


Now I know how Bill Nye felt arguing with that creationist the other week.

The only way to "prove" that "my opinion is formed on fact and data" would be to admit you are right before we started.

You probably have your own separate special definitions of what a "fact" is that is entirely different from what everybody else considers it to be, again, just like that creationist guy.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#280 - 2014-02-14 16:26:09 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Man, here we go again.

I hope CCP shuts down this thread asap, given goons are derailing the thread again about ISK / hour.

Bottom line, CCP has the numbers about how much money is made where.
They see who owns the titans, who does not.
They see the ISK / tick for everyone.

I firmly believe they will be nerfing high sec again, but the goons whining in this thread, or any thread, is not how the nerf gets done. The only reason the goons whine here is when the inevitable nerf happens, they can say it ONLY happened because of their wise direction here, and how CCP finally saw the light, ignoring all the other less obvious pressure applied to destroy high sec.

Of course, a nerf to high sec is really really bad for the game in general, but great for the goons.
But they already know that.

I agree 100%, as things are now with BLUESEC and the controlling corp and their pets, a nerf to any other space other than BLUESEC would only strengthen their hold over all.


It's funny (and pitiful) that you keep trying to coin a word and no one is buying lol. Now excuse me, I need to concentrate on making my isk in Lanngisi, which is smack dab in the middle of SAFESEC.