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Null sec what chance does the little guy have

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Thead Enco
Domheimed
#101 - 2014-02-12 20:11:00 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

...
How do you defend against people who can grind through several hundred systems in 72 hours?

Hit them behind their lines while they are doing it? If they launch an offensive without leaving enough active members in reserve behind them they risk getting shot in the back. Actual warefare type stuff?


WAT? Is this Voodoo ******* economics....
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#102 - 2014-02-12 20:51:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
guerrilla warfare.. and choose your targets well. attack supply lines, noobs, solo or small party ratters.. make their eve life so miserable they would rather play wow. You cannot beat a super organization with a single frontal assault if you only have a small corp. and no allies. Eve is a collective of opportunists.. if the strongest entity in eve starts to show weakness players fly out of the wood work to pick at the boney dying superstructure.. Your goal is to get that entity to look just vunerable enough.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Tysun Kane
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#103 - 2014-02-12 20:57:17 UTC
Sarah Nalelmir wrote:
Its sad that CFC are allowed to own so much of Null. There should be a limit on what can be cvlaimed by a particular corp/alliance.

I would prefer to see an even spread of corps/alliances rather than just one big blob of colour.


+1
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#104 - 2014-02-12 20:59:43 UTC
Emma Muutaras wrote:
with the current state of null sec http://i.imgur.com/yRX4f1D.png (based on blue standings) what chance does a small alliance/corp that wants to be independent of the big boys have in getting a foothold in null?

it looks like you have 3 choices at the moment join cfc/rus join N3 or buy a wizards hat and join provi block.

while i admit my knowledge of everything going on in null is somewhat limited every 1 seams to say the same thing N3 while still got a lot of fight in them is on the back-foot and in full retreat that blue doughnut is getting closer and closer to being complete.

small scale pvp is getting harder and harder to find always seams to be a 30 man fleet getting dropped by a 100 man fleet, and if/when the blue doughnut is complete you may as well say large scale pvp will die as well.

yes its in the nature of sandboxes for people to group together and form massive coalitions but is this really healthy for null sec?




Go to NPC null as others have said. We have survived well over a year out there, even had 4 POS up and running at one time. And we are only a 2 person corp, with our various alts.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#105 - 2014-02-12 21:00:53 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

...
How do you defend against people who can grind through several hundred systems in 72 hours?

Hit them behind their lines while they are doing it? If they launch an offensive without leaving enough active members in reserve behind them they risk getting shot in the back. Actual warefare type stuff?



This is a fantasy. Structure grind + reinforcement timers + force projection means taht massive structure grinding superior means they can knock your stuff over and come back to defend theirs no problem.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#106 - 2014-02-12 21:33:57 UTC
Tysun Kane wrote:
Sarah Nalelmir wrote:
Its sad that CFC are allowed to own so much of Null. There should be a limit on what can be cvlaimed by a particular corp/alliance.

I would prefer to see an even spread of corps/alliances rather than just one big blob of colour.


+1

Allowed? Who is allowing them? They are not breaking the EULA in holding as much territory as they can. If anyone is guilty of allowance here it's the general population of players who are not working in game to put a stop to something they don't like. This is a free market of play. That's the idea of a sandbox.. as little interference by devs and game owners as possible.. as long as the players do not betray the EULA they agreed to they are free to dominate if they can.

The real question is: if tomorrow CFC was beaten, how would the winner not become the next CFC or die? Afterall, didn't CFC just become BoB or worse than BoB after they beat them? If you destroy a government for it's lack of fairness and abuses of power how do you stop the next govenrment from using the same tools they defeated to maintain their own power? Limit the size and scope of government? If we did that by imposing size limitations on corps and alliances wouldn't that just encourage yet more undefined super alliances to be formed? Better to know your enemies.. you can't stop it without causing more out of game or cloaked organization. Better that we support in game development of large organizations for the good of all players. There is nothing stopping you from forming up and becoming the next large area sov holder with 5000 of your closest friends.

If CFC became tyrannical enough there is nothing they could do to stop the rest of eve from beating them out of null sec.. They are outnumbered. Just because the collective will to unseat a coalition doesn't exist don't expect CCP to impose unjust changes in policy to knock that coalition down a peg. "It's unfair that you have so much talent and skill... we need to handicap you for the good of all..." that's the very communist idea that has caused social unrest and economic disaster in the past. Those with merit should be rewarded for their achievement not beaten and broken outside of the rules.. If you don't like it, become a better player, leader, orgainzer. It's up to you.. not CCP. Embrace the EULA.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2014-02-12 21:35:45 UTC
It all depends on how diplomatically inclined you are. This could change though if CCP fixes sov and nerfs highsec, it'd be easier for you then.

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Josef Djugashvilis
#108 - 2014-02-12 21:37:37 UTC
Sarah Nalelmir wrote:
Its sad that CFC are allowed to own so much of Null. There should be a limit on what can be cvlaimed by a particular corp/alliance.

I would prefer to see an even spread of corps/alliances rather than just one big blob of colour.



CFC have, negotiated, earned, or fought for the space they own.

Good for them.

This is not a signature.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#109 - 2014-02-12 21:53:11 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
It all depends on how diplomatically inclined you are. This could change though if CCP fixes sov and nerfs highsec, it'd be easier for you then.

Why is this always the answer of some..."Nerf High sec".. How exactly would that change anything? How exactly has it changed anything in the past? Yes, High Sec has been nerfed over and over.... and little if anything has changed. High sec and null sec should be equal but separate experiences. I believe High Sec nerfs have gone too far as it is.

Diplomacy is only one tool that CFC has harnessed to good effect. Yes, they (CFC) can be treacherous but what alliance with ambition does not want strong friends or at least strong temporary NAPed allies?

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#110 - 2014-02-12 22:02:36 UTC
The small guy has as much chance in SOV nullsec as say the Michigan militia has actually taking over Michigan i.e. none.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2014-02-12 22:09:51 UTC
There are no oceans in EvE since CCP introduced all the new regional jumps. That's the difference between now and the BoB era. This forces alliances to enter into large coalitions.

The reason is that expansion doesn't stop at pockets since pockets no longer exist and there is always another alliance to fight (not profitable) or NAP (profitable).

This isn't helped by the ease of projection with bridges.

When you have 37 thousand man coalitions and 24 hours to get a portion of that number organized, the ability to move that portion across the map quickly to all staggered timers, instant non-sandbox alerts when something is attacked and silly amounts of capitals, super capitals and isk then the small guys are 100% removed from the null sec non-sandbox sov game.

Rather than timers improving the game they do unfortunately ruin it. You can see in the last big fight where Sov dropped without timers and a system became vulnerable without 24 hours warning how much more interesting and improved the game could be. Rather than 4000 players in system there were only 2500, forces were arriving dynamically, CFC successfully positioned itself not only in the system being attacked but in other systems to prevent reinforcements arriving.

It was a much better much more dynamic fight than the usuall two huge prepared blobs assembling and duking it out in the one system under game killing lag.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#112 - 2014-02-12 22:28:24 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Sarah Nalelmir wrote:
Its sad that CFC are allowed to own so much of Null. There should be a limit on what can be cvlaimed by a particular corp/alliance.

I would prefer to see an even spread of corps/alliances rather than just one big blob of colour.



CFC have, negotiated, earned, or fought for the space they own.

Good for them.


And they've whined and complained to the devs (cough alliance wardec costs cough not to mention many little nerfs here and there) when things threaten to make them play eve on normal mode again.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#113 - 2014-02-12 22:39:18 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Sarah Nalelmir wrote:
Its sad that CFC are allowed to own so much of Null. There should be a limit on what can be cvlaimed by a particular corp/alliance.

I would prefer to see an even spread of corps/alliances rather than just one big blob of colour.



CFC have, negotiated, earned, or fought for the space they own.

Good for them.


And they've whined and complained to the devs (cough alliance wardec costs cough not to mention many little nerfs here and there) when things threaten to make them play eve on normal mode again.

CFC have ridden the SOV changes made by an ex-MC EvE player turned EvE Developer turned PL EvE Player for all its worth. They can threaten and coerce knowing they can dump a portion of their 37k players onto anyone with 24 hours of notice - see 6VDT.

That everything not a ship reinforces in SOV space, billions of isk worth of POS, 100 million worth of POCO to even a bloody 1 million isk depot means they're completely immune to damage until they can bring overwhelming force to bear on anyone attempting to damage them.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Ila Dace
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2014-02-12 23:08:58 UTC
SMT008 wrote:
...
This explains force projection issues pretty well
....

Yes. That's why I linked it on page 2, but only a few seemed to have noticed. Cool

If House played Eve: http://i.imgur.com/y7ShT.jpg

But in purple, I'm stunning!
Shrewd Tsero
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#115 - 2014-02-12 23:19:24 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
[quote=Tysun Kane][quote=Sarah Nalelmir]Those with merit should be rewarded for their achievement not beaten and broken outside of the rules.. If you don't like it, become a better player, leader, orgainzer.


That is the sexiest thing I have ever read on these forums.

It is good to have substance to one's existence.  But in the absence of substance, one can do much yet with style.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#116 - 2014-02-12 23:32:44 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Sarah Nalelmir wrote:
Its sad that CFC are allowed to own so much of Null. There should be a limit on what can be cvlaimed by a particular corp/alliance.

I would prefer to see an even spread of corps/alliances rather than just one big blob of colour.



CFC have, negotiated, earned, or fought for the space they own.

Good for them.


And they've whined and complained to the devs (cough alliance wardec costs cough not to mention many little nerfs here and there) when things threaten to make them play eve on normal mode again.


The war dec mechanics are broken and bad. We have never pushed for what what we currently have.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2014-02-13 00:25:14 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
It all depends on how diplomatically inclined you are. This could change though if CCP fixes sov and nerfs highsec, it'd be easier for you then.

Why is this always the answer of some..."Nerf High sec".. How exactly would that change anything? How exactly has it changed anything in the past? Yes, High Sec has been nerfed over and over.... and little if anything has changed. High sec and null sec should be equal but separate experiences. I believe High Sec nerfs have gone too far as it is.

Diplomacy is only one tool that CFC has harnessed to good effect. Yes, they (CFC) can be treacherous but what alliance with ambition does not want strong friends or at least strong temporary NAPed allies?


Its nerf highsec because highsec is too good to the point it depopulated nullsec. CCP said they can't buff nullsec because it could destroy the economy hence the only option is to nerf highsec.

Diplomacy is where most groups fail hence people need to stop being antisocial autists and try making friends for a change.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#118 - 2014-02-13 00:43:07 UTC
La Nariz wrote:

Its nerf highsec because highsec is too good to the point it depopulated nullsec.


Are you sure it has nothing to do with the very boring state of the sov game ?

Nothing to do with the "Side with us or be wrecked by thousands of unstoppable caps" ?

Nothing to do with the fact that nullsecs' only interest for structures that can't get more than 200 dudes in fleet is PVE content and the occasional skirmish roam ?

I have never heard of anyone saying "Alright, nullsec is too boring to me, I'll live and have fun in highsec, I'm so excited !". Never ever.

What can one do in highsec ? Missions ? Mining ? Incursion ?

Missions are boring. Really boring. And aren't worth more ISK/H than decent nullsec PVE content.

Mining ? Really ? I don't even need to talk about that.

Incursions ? Yeah, that I can understand, Incursions are probably one of the most interesting thing to do in highsec...

Industry ? Alright, you can build, transport, invent, copy and whatnot in Highsec. And it's a lot more practical to do it in highsec than it is in nullsec. That's the only thing I would nerf highsec on, because on every other front highsec is really boring and doesn't have as much content as nullsec tbh.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#119 - 2014-02-13 00:50:02 UTC
SMT008 wrote:
La Nariz wrote:

Its nerf highsec because highsec is too good to the point it depopulated nullsec.


Are you sure it has nothing to do with the very boring state of the sov game ?

Nothing to do with the "Side with us or be wrecked by thousands of unstoppable caps" ?

Nothing to do with the fact that nullsecs' only interest for structures that can't get more than 200 dudes in fleet is PVE content and the occasional skirmish roam ?

I have never heard of anyone saying "Alright, nullsec is too boring to me, I'll live and have fun in highsec, I'm so excited !". Never ever.

What can one do in highsec ? Missions ? Mining ? Incursion ?

Missions are boring. Really boring. And aren't worth more ISK/H than decent nullsec PVE content.

Mining ? Really ? I don't even need to talk about that.

Incursions ? Yeah, that I can understand, Incursions are probably one of the most interesting thing to do in highsec...

Industry ? Alright, you can build, transport, invent, copy and whatnot in Highsec. And it's a lot more practical to do it in highsec than it is in nullsec. That's the only thing I would nerf highsec on, because on every other front highsec is really boring and doesn't have as much content as nullsec tbh.


If the rewards were there, instead of in highsec, people would be able to rationalize dealing with those things.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2014-02-13 01:05:57 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Sarah Nalelmir wrote:
Its sad that CFC are allowed to own so much of Null. There should be a limit on what can be cvlaimed by a particular corp/alliance.

I would prefer to see an even spread of corps/alliances rather than just one big blob of colour.



CFC have, negotiated, earned, or fought for the space they own.

Good for them.


And they've whined and complained to the devs (cough alliance wardec costs cough not to mention many little nerfs here and there) when things threaten to make them play eve on normal mode again.



CFC used those very mechanics against -A-, its was somewhat amusing having 45 alliances wardeccing at once......none of which mattered when all of those market campers come to null anyway, so meh.