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[Rubicon 1.3] Drone Assist change

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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-02-06 14:18:46 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hello, some news:

Coming soon, in a Rubicon point release, we are planning to add a hard cap to the number of drones that can be assisted to a single player. Currently, we are planning to set that cap at 50.

As most of you surely know by now, drone assist has been a very hot topic over the last 6 or so months. Archons began showing the power of sentry doctrines before that, and the addition of tracking and optimal bonuses for drones on the Ishtar and Dominix catapulted this philosophy into the forefront of fleet warfare. The resulting meta is causing two major problems that we hope to address through this change.

  • We feel that drone assist, at a large scale, leads to passive gameplay that most players do not enjoy. Assist places too much control in the hands of a single person and leaves the majority of the fleet with little to do. note: we spent a lot of time considering the value in delegation of ship systems and navigation overall (why not have assisted turrets? why have fleet warp? etc) and while this discussion will likely continue, we feel it depends heavily on the amount of delegation taking place. Amount might refer to the time something is delegated or the importance of the system being delegated (is it a primary system or a secondary one). Moral of the story: while some cases of drone assist can be fun, large fleets based on assist are not.

  • Drones, for the time being, are the most taxing weapon system for our hardware, which means overall play experience has suffered some because of the popularity of sentry doctrines.

    • We are making this change primarily to address the first point, but also hope to have a positive effect on performance by allowing more room for other weapon systems in the fleet meta.

    Why a flat cap?

    We believe a flat cap will:

  • Limit large scale assist substantially
  • Leave room for smaller scale assisting (there are several use-cases for assist that we wanted to preserve, such as incursion drone managers)
  • Be very easy to communicate to players
  • Affect carriers more heavily than sub-caps (because they can field 10 drones per ship rather than 5)

    • This solution meets each of these points in a more effective way than any others we considered.

    Why 50?

    To arrive at 50 we began by starting at complete removal of assist, and worked our way back up until we had caught all the use-cases for assist that we didn't want to impact negatively. That included frigates on gates trying to catch cloakers, small fleets trying to use assist to avoid e-war, logistics pilots who are too busy to manage their drones, and most importantly, incursioners. We believe 50 will leave all these uses unharmed while also heavily discouraging large fleet use. If it turns out that fleets are still able to rely on assist easily at 50 (which we feel is unlikely) we can and will make further adjustments.

    Before I go, I want to say that we've been looking at this for some time now. We've watched the discussion in the community evolve and also kept a close eye on TQ behavior. We began discussing this change with the CSM via internal forums just prior to the summit, and then spent significant time discussing it in person with them during the summit. Their feedback was valuable, as always, and gives us confidence that this is a good direction.

    As always, leave your feedback and we will do our best to answer any questions.

    @ccp_rise
    Chitsa Jason
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #2 - 2014-02-06 14:20:01 UTC
    Ship it!

    Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
    Sheeana Harb
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #3 - 2014-02-06 14:20:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Sheeana Harb
    Yay! Looking forward to it.
    HVAC Repairman
    Hedion University
    Amarr Empire
    #4 - 2014-02-06 14:20:39 UTC
    you're killing eve by adding decent changes

    keep killing eve rise

    Follow me on twitter
    Omnathious Deninard
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #5 - 2014-02-06 14:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
    Why 50? That still seems too much.
    I can only control 5 drones from my ship natively, but for some reason I can use 50 from others?

    If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
    Sort Dragon
    Resilience.
    The Initiative.
    #6 - 2014-02-06 14:21:53 UTC
    We went through alot with ccp for this. And for now this is a good change.
    shebu
    OEG
    Goonswarm Federation
    #7 - 2014-02-06 14:22:17 UTC
    BB N3
    Padanemi
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #8 - 2014-02-06 14:22:24 UTC
    Seems legit.

    Will you also limit the number of people that receive a target broadcast in fleet to 10?
    Crysantos Callahan
    Imperial Shipment
    Amarr Empire
    #9 - 2014-02-06 14:22:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Crysantos Callahan
    Mehehehe, will have to learn to read :P
    Malcanis
    Vanishing Point.
    The Initiative.
    #10 - 2014-02-06 14:23:26 UTC
    We went through all the use cases we could think of, and 50 dones was enough for every reasonable use. If we missed any (EVE is big!), then let us know. But it's pretty hard to think of a non abusive case that 50 dones won't be enough for.

    "Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

    Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
    Sort Dragon
    Resilience.
    The Initiative.
    #11 - 2014-02-06 14:23:56 UTC
    Crysantos Callahan wrote:
    So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?

    Just saying...


    Sigh learn to read.

    And ffs you are in my alliance too.
    CCP Fozzie
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #12 - 2014-02-06 14:24:00 UTC
    Crysantos Callahan wrote:
    So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?

    Just saying...


    As long as the members of those wings only have one drone each, then sure!

    Game Designer | Team Five-0

    Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
    Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
    Malcanis
    Vanishing Point.
    The Initiative.
    #13 - 2014-02-06 14:24:15 UTC
    Crysantos Callahan wrote:
    So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?

    Just saying...


    Um, for a full fleet you'll need 50 squad leaders with drone assists. The limit is 50 drones, not the drones from 50 players.

    "Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

    Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
    Rivr Luzade
    Coreli Corporation
    Pandemic Legion
    #14 - 2014-02-06 14:24:26 UTC
    Ok, so only 5 carriers and 10 Dominix can assign drones to one person after this change. That sounds reasonable and leaves sufficient room for smaller fleets to still benefit form the delegation mechanics. Blink

    UI Improvement Collective

    My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
    Powers Sa
    #15 - 2014-02-06 14:25:05 UTC
    So that means Squad Commanders can take up to 10 assists with 5 drones per assisting player. Squad commanders are finally relevant.

    efb by malcanis

    Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

    Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
    Forlorn Wongraven
    Habitual Euthanasia
    Pandemic Legion
    #16 - 2014-02-06 14:25:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Forlorn Wongraven
    Sort Dragon wrote:
    Crysantos Callahan wrote:
    So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?

    Just saying...


    Sigh learn to read.

    And ffs you are in my alliance too.

    He made two mistakes. Lol

    Winner ATXI , 3rd place ATXII, winner ATXIII, 2nd ATXIV - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW
    C0NRAD
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #17 - 2014-02-06 14:25:10 UTC
    We feel that drone assist, at a large scale, leads to passive gameplay that most players do not enjoy

    absolutly agree.

    BUT u just incresing target callers count. 50 dominix - 250 drones - 5 target callers.
    Malcanis
    Vanishing Point.
    The Initiative.
    #18 - 2014-02-06 14:25:16 UTC
    Sort Dragon wrote:
    Crysantos Callahan wrote:
    So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?

    Just saying...


    Sigh learn to read.

    And ffs you are in my alliance too.


    Don't feel bad, there are people in INIT. who unironically think that removing AoE doomsday was wrong. It just goes to show.

    "Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

    Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
    Niden
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #19 - 2014-02-06 14:25:26 UTC
    CCP Rise: Was the idea of disallowing drone assist for sentries ever discussed?

    Moira corp | Villore Accords | Gallente militia |  Lowlife on Crossing Zebras | @Niden_GMVA
    Malcanis
    Vanishing Point.
    The Initiative.
    #20 - 2014-02-06 14:26:02 UTC
    C0NRAD wrote:
    We feel that drone assist, at a large scale, leads to passive gameplay that most players do not enjoy

    absolutly agree.

    BUT u just incresing target callers count. 50 dominix - 250 drones - 5 target callers.


    Well that's 5x as much gameplay as there was before!

    "Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

    Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
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