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[Rubicon 1.3] Drone Assist change

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2014-02-06 14:26:10 UTC
Crysantos Callahan wrote:
So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?

Just saying...

if you've only got one drone per person, sure

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#22 - 2014-02-06 14:26:47 UTC
Looks like a good start to me.

Obligatory "shots fired", of course.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Powers Sa
#23 - 2014-02-06 14:26:56 UTC
If you increase it to 100 per player, then carrier drone assist stuff is still relevant, just sayin (unless you think that is broken too).

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#24 - 2014-02-06 14:26:59 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Why 50? That still seems too much.


This is certainly the most common concern we ran into. As I said above, we think it's low enough. We didn't want to go lower because of the potential impact on other uses for assist, but if this doesn't work we will consider going lower at that point.

@ccp_rise
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#25 - 2014-02-06 14:26:59 UTC
Niden wrote:
CCP Rise: Was the idea of disallowing drone assist for sentries ever discussed?


Yes, it was pretty strongly argued by some people.

In the end it was decided against because (1) There are several non abusive use cases and (2) Exceptions are bad and add "bad" complexity.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#26 - 2014-02-06 14:28:02 UTC
Powers Sa wrote:
If you increase it to 100 per player, then carrier drone assist stuff is still relevant, just sayin (unless you think that is broken too).


That is precisely why it was reduced to 50.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Crysantos Callahan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2014-02-06 14:29:23 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Crysantos Callahan wrote:
So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?

Just saying...


As long as the members of those wings only have one drone each, then sure!


Sounds like a plan ;)

Nvm then, good nerf !
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#28 - 2014-02-06 14:29:32 UTC
it still makes no sense .. how a ship can control more drones than its bandwidth allows which surely makes drone assist a ridiculous mechanic does it not???

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Jopa Pidorovna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-02-06 14:30:22 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hello, some news:


I love you!!!! =)
Oh Takashawa
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#30 - 2014-02-06 14:31:15 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
  • Affect carriers more heavily than sub-caps (because they can field 10 drones per ship rather than 5)
    • Can we take this as a sign, then, that CCP holds the opinion that capitals should offer even fewer advantages to offset the increased cost, effort, risk, and skills required to effectively field them, as compared to simply fielding big piles of subcaps?

    Also, a broader question - do you intend to leave any force multipliers in EVE, Rise, or simply reduce it to whoever has more dudes in T1 subcaps, or alternatively, in bombers? It seems to be trending a lot that way lately, and I'm just curious if that's intentional or simply persistent oversight.
    CCP Rise
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #31 - 2014-02-06 14:31:53 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Rise
    Harvey James wrote:
    it still makes no sense .. how a ship can control more drones than its bandwidth allows which surely makes drone assist a ridiculous mechanic does it not???


    I think from a 'realism' standpoint it isn't out of the question to expect your drones to use your ships bandwidth to echo the behavior of another ship's drones.

    That said, a big part of our approach to this issue was to isolate the two problems at the top. There may be more discussions related to delegation as a whole, 'realism', usability for drones in general, etc, but for now we wanted to find the best solution to this very specific problem.

    @ccp_rise
    Javajunky
    Tech Builds
    Pandemic Horde
    #32 - 2014-02-06 14:31:55 UTC
    +1 that way we can start flying baltec fleet again, Megathron fleets are sexy as hell.
    Crysantos Callahan
    Imperial Shipment
    Amarr Empire
    #33 - 2014-02-06 14:32:53 UTC
    Sort Dragon wrote:
    Crysantos Callahan wrote:
    So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?

    Just saying...


    Sigh learn to read.

    And ffs you are in my alliance too.


    Guess too few sleep the last nights m8, grinding all day makes the brain dumb ;)
    Forlorn Wongraven
    Habitual Euthanasia
    Pandemic Legion
    #34 - 2014-02-06 14:33:19 UTC
    Assist to 50 drones is too high, please reduce to 25.

    Winner ATXI , 3rd place ATXII, winner ATXIII, 2nd ATXIV - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW
    Rek Seven
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #35 - 2014-02-06 14:35:07 UTC
    Sounds good to me.

    The next best thing would be to completely design drones to function better in game and put less stress on the server. For example why have 5 drones that do 50 dps each instead of one that does 250 dps?!

    The wishlist is pretty much complete...
    Diivil
    Magellanic Itg
    Goonswarm Federation
    #36 - 2014-02-06 14:35:17 UTC
    A step in the right direction although I'm still concerned how good drone assist is for skirmish sized Ishtar gangs.
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #37 - 2014-02-06 14:35:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Harvey James wrote:
    it still makes no sense .. how a ship can control more drones than its bandwidth allows which surely makes drone assist a ridiculous mechanic does it not???


    I think from a 'realism' standpoint it isn't out of the question to expect your drones to use your ships bandwidth to echo the behavior of another ship's drones.

    That said, a big part of our approach to this issue was to isolate the two problems at the top. There may be more discussions related to delegation as a whole, 'realism', usability for drones in general, etc, but for now we wanted to find the best solution to this very specific problem.


    with this change it still makes it only about the FC's/ support commanders and makes the rest of the fleet nothing more than drone ammo bays .. does it still allow frigs with no drone bandwidth to use drones??

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    Cara Parker
    Monks of War
    #38 - 2014-02-06 14:35:29 UTC
    nice try

    but i think drones MUST eat some capacitor Lol
    Ali Aras
    Nobody in Local
    Deepwater Hooligans
    #39 - 2014-02-06 14:36:40 UTC
    Niden wrote:
    CCP Rise: Was the idea of disallowing drone assist for sentries ever discussed?

    Extensively. This was my preferred solution, but it has different drawbacks: you lose the ability to sentry-assist around a dickstar POS (which is a Good Thing and an advantage of drones), and the (not great) complexity of "some drones can be assisted and some can't" is increased and reinforced.

    Ultimately, I support this change, as I do think it's the best combo of goods and minimizes the bads. I'll also be following up on it and monitoring how drone assist is used after the change, and if it is still a major component of most nullsec fleets, support further reductions in drone assist numbers.

    http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog
    Lara Lonson
    Jedis with Pitchforks
    #40 - 2014-02-06 14:37:01 UTC
    One thing that will be affected by this will be all Incursion fleets except for Vanguards. Makes Assaults even less desired and well, in HQs, people probably need to change setups a bit.

    Not saying it is good or bad, just wanting to highlight it since incursions were mentioned in the original posting.