These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#3361 - 2014-02-01 11:04:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Vaju Enki wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

Plus we've had two years since Incarna in which CCP have blissfully ignored EVE. Ship rebalancing and modules like the ESS (chase the Egg/Beacon Hunt) do not improve gamplay when everyone agrees that POS's and SOV are completely ******.


Crucible, Inferno, Retribution, Odyssey and Rubicon are the best expansions of EvE Online, the game is in better shape than ever before.


Crucible agreed. Crucible has been, for me, the best expansion yet. But, after the Incarna failure CCP moved EVERYONE from all their other projects back onto Eve to make the expansion bring people back. There are quotes from devs complaining about having been moved off their project to work on Eve. Inferno was good(if you happened to be affected by the changes that were made, lots of people were left out), sure. The other two were straight up boring. Odyssey worse than Rubicon.

Also, don't forget within the resounding success of Crucible, they added the other three Captains Quarters.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#3362 - 2014-02-01 14:32:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Anomaly One
If you think CCP can't make this happen and work then you are sadly horribly utterly mistaken, for a game which is filled with pvp, EvE has:

-great lore
-great descriptions
-Character creation even better than the "carebear" MMOs
-depth and beauty of the world
-good music

that's kinda weird for a game supposedly all about "spaceship pvp" don't ya think ;)
remember it's not just a spaceship game, the goal here is to make a great sci-fi game. (at least that's what I think they want, they did mention it once right?)


ok great found it, the 4th dev post on this thread


CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Hey guys, thanks for the positive reaction. Like stated above, our vision is to make the EVE Universe the ultimate science fiction simulator. Saying that EVE is just about spaceships, is a bit like saying that phones should only be about making voice phone calls one on one with other people. Indeed they did start out like that, but as technology evolved, they become something much bigger. We hope you guys stay with us long enough for that dream to materialize.

Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting.



Oh yea and just to add full to a fun conspiracy theory,
People don't want WiS because if implemented right they are no longer safe in stations Twisted

Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. DUST 514 FOR PC
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3363 - 2014-02-01 16:04:37 UTC
Anomaly Oneok great found it, the 4th dev post on this thread


CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
[u wrote:
Hey guys, thanks for the positive reaction. Like stated above, our vision is to make the EVE Universe the ultimate science fiction simulator.[/u] Saying that EVE is just about spaceships, is a bit like saying that phones should only be about making voice phone calls one on one with other people. Indeed they did start out like that, but as technology evolved, they become something much bigger. We hope you guys stay with us long enough for that dream to materialize.

Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting.

Quoting the old dev posts from this thread doesn't make any sense because Team Avatar was disbanded some time ago. Also, CCP devs can envision whatever they want but unless a single developer is actually working on WiS it doesn't mean a thing.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#3364 - 2014-02-01 16:13:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Sura Sadiva
Silivar Karkun wrote:
ion is what CCP has been doing since the start, and its of course admirable, but in order to put WiS in function as i explained it requires making big expansions.......bigger than Apocrypha in order to put it to function......a character editor and a bunch of places to visit isnt enough for the scope of what WiS can be.......it needs to be done with the same effort as with the spaceship content of the last 10 years......even more.....


Well, Apocrypha was a 3 months cycle expansion. But yes, it's hard, effort is required and "true" expansions.
What I say is that can be splitted over time, don't have to be all together. When people talk about the "social" part of WiS, bars, cambling games and so on, is simply because this is the more easy and imemdiate possible application. A good base to start with.

Then there's an industry/market integration related to the WiS items and modules (I mean not only avatar customization items here, but also everything related to WiS establishments building, set up and maintainence. And this is already a good intergation level with the EVE core mechanics.

The AVA structures exploration prototype described by the CCP OP here could be a relevant PVE implementation (and this another area of EVE in need of strong attention). But then the same tools used for this can be extended to add PVP oriented AVA gameplay like infiltrating FW outposts or sabotage against POS.

So here we have a new gameplay layer added to social, industry, market, PvE, PvP. That are all the major areas of EVE.

I know is hard, yes it requires CCP to re-focus on EVE instead of external problem. And I don't see this happening. I think the trend is a progressive nerf and downgrade from sandbox MMORPG down to games like Star Conflict, WoT and such.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#3365 - 2014-02-01 18:11:41 UTC
Rhes wrote:

Quoting the old dev posts from this thread doesn't make any sense because Team Avatar was disbanded some time ago. Also, CCP devs can envision whatever they want but unless a single developer is actually working on WiS it doesn't mean a thing.


Still posting? Not going to find some references/posts/proof for your bull earlier? If you can't back any of your posts, why are you posting?

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#3366 - 2014-02-01 18:26:48 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Rhes wrote:

Quoting the old dev posts from this thread doesn't make any sense because Team Avatar was disbanded some time ago. Also, CCP devs can envision whatever they want but unless a single developer is actually working on WiS it doesn't mean a thing.


Still posting? Not going to find some references/posts/proof for your bull earlier? If you can't back any of your posts, why are you posting?


Just ignore Rhes. They're beyond reasoning with. Even when someone has cut their circular arguments chain, they'll just glue it back together again and carry on.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3367 - 2014-02-01 19:54:22 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Rhes wrote:

Quoting the old dev posts from this thread doesn't make any sense because Team Avatar was disbanded some time ago. Also, CCP devs can envision whatever they want but unless a single developer is actually working on WiS it doesn't mean a thing.


Still posting? Not going to find some references/posts/proof for your bull earlier? If you can't back any of your posts, why are you posting?

Unless there is some secret WiS expansion coming out soon (there's not) all the proof I need is the current state of the game.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Elizabeth Brown
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3368 - 2014-02-01 20:01:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Brown
Rhes wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Rhes wrote:

Quoting the old dev posts from this thread doesn't make any sense because Team Avatar was disbanded some time ago. Also, CCP devs can envision whatever they want but unless a single developer is actually working on WiS it doesn't mean a thing.


Still posting? Not going to find some references/posts/proof for your bull earlier? If you can't back any of your posts, why are you posting?

Unless there is some secret WiS expansion coming out soon (there's not) all the proof I need is the current state of the game.


So, you don't need proof to believe what you believe, because your going to believe it anyway right? Also, CCP, are working on World of Darkness, they mentioned a timid 2015 release date. That's Avatar content being developed continuously, using the CARBON engine. Working with Avatars on the same engine that Eve uses, might not be 'working on Avatar content for Eve', but it's pretty close. Once WoD is out, using that knowledge to add to Eve shouldn't be difficult.

You can argue that you don't want them working on stuff because it will hurt the game that you want Eve to be, but they are already doing that by dedicating an entire office worth of developers to developing a CARBON based Avatar game.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3369 - 2014-02-01 20:05:38 UTC
Elizabeth Brown wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Rhes wrote:

Quoting the old dev posts from this thread doesn't make any sense because Team Avatar was disbanded some time ago. Also, CCP devs can envision whatever they want but unless a single developer is actually working on WiS it doesn't mean a thing.


Still posting? Not going to find some references/posts/proof for your bull earlier? If you can't back any of your posts, why are you posting?

Unless there is some secret WiS expansion coming out soon (there's not) all the proof I need is the current state of the game.


So, you don't need proof to believe what you believe, because your going to believe it anyway right? Also, CCP, are working on World of Darkness, they mentioned a timid 2015 release date. That's Avatar content being developed continuously, using the CARBON engine. Working with Avatars on the same engine that Eve uses, might not be 'working on Avatar content for Eve', but it's pretty close. Once WoD is out, using that knowledge to add to Eve shouldn't be difficult.

You can argue that you don't want them working on stuff because it will hurt the game that you want Eve to be, but they are already doing that by dedicating an entire office worth of developers to developing a CARBON based Avatar game.

Sorry but WoD is vaporware and won't be released in 2015. Bookmark this post and see if I'm wrong on 12/31/2015 (I won't be).

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#3370 - 2014-02-01 20:07:35 UTC
Rhes wrote:

Sorry but WoD is vaporware and won't be released in 2015. Bookmark this post and see if I'm wrong on 12/31/2015 (I won't be).


You really are a dumb ass. Yea, CCP has an office full of people working on a game they never intend to release. Of course, that makes perfect sense.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3371 - 2014-02-01 20:16:54 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Rhes wrote:

Sorry but WoD is vaporware and won't be released in 2015. Bookmark this post and see if I'm wrong on 12/31/2015 (I won't be).


You really are a dumb ass. Yea, CCP has an office full of people working on a game they never intend to release. Of course, that makes perfect sense.

Like I said...bookmark my post and we'll see.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#3372 - 2014-02-01 20:35:04 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Rhes wrote:

Sorry but WoD is vaporware and won't be released in 2015. Bookmark this post and see if I'm wrong on 12/31/2015 (I won't be).


You really are a dumb ass. Yea, CCP has an office full of people working on a game they never intend to release. Of course, that makes perfect sense.

And the last news anyone had from that office was that even more people had been fired.

So one might question how full that office is.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Seras Victoria Egivand
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3373 - 2014-02-01 20:53:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Seras Victoria Egivand
Rhes wrote:
they have a pretty horrible track record when it comes to shoehorning avatar gameplay into their spaceship game.


Quote:

You've killed your own game.

Crucible, Inferno, Retribution, Odyssey and Rubicon are the best expansions of EvE Online, the game is in better shape than ever before.



Lets get this right they are not expansions they are patches.... Expansions add content... Ship redesigned and fixing core mechanics that have been broken for 8 years isn't an expansion its an embarrassment.. There's a reason they don't charge for them they would get laughed out of the industry .

That being said.... This is what they needed to fix...

Expansion wise they need to open up more unexplored systems and new areas of discovery.
Expand wormhole space.
Revamp and retool Pi while i think pi Honestly atm is actually alot more fun then the real game i tihnk it can be expanded upon to just be more then Getting materials off planets...
Examples of this

Expanding PI to inc operate Terra forming and colonization of planets with buildings defenses and industry.
The ability to move resources between your planets to a player owned planet for future production or to a corp owned or privately owned base without user having to fly into space to pick it up..

Release Wis with meaningful content to foster growth in eve.. Player ran and owned star bases to entire planets and regions of space..

Low or-bate incursions and or mission's (you could even tie dust missions or contracts into this.)

Ability to re customize your ship with decals paint so on so forth.


What needs to happen throughout the year (not just twice a year and call it what you been calling it cause thats not cutting it.)

Revamp pos and Sov

Revamp of ship mechanics - Smaller ships should honestly be Fly by wire and not move the same way large ships do.. Would foster proper dogfights.

The ability for small ships to bump larger ships freighters caps super caps so on... (no offence if a frig bumped one of those ships its going to blow up not bump it..)

Aggression system needs some love... Non agressed targets or people that get agressed and cant return fire should not get the same GCD as someone that did the aggression.. EG no ability to use the stargate.

Dual corp citizenship... (running faction warfare should not remove you from your corp.... (you mean because im minmatar and joined a player corp i cant go do things to honor my people ?)


This is not ment to be a full list its just men't as a guideline.....

Last but not least there back end server structure needs serous overhaul.... Sorry but slack-less Python is not the way to go.. If you need Python as the back end at least update and use multi core multi threaded slack-less python.

I know carbon io was supposed to address this but as you can see by battles your servers still cant handle it... Eather retool and update it or upgrade the ageing hardware.


I know this sounds like a lot of time and money but then again the game has been neglected for so long.. It should have been done years ago.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#3374 - 2014-02-01 20:55:48 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
ion is what CCP has been doing since the start, and its of course admirable, but in order to put WiS in function as i explained it requires making big expansions.......bigger than Apocrypha in order to put it to function......a character editor and a bunch of places to visit isnt enough for the scope of what WiS can be.......it needs to be done with the same effort as with the spaceship content of the last 10 years......even more.....


Well, Apocrypha was a 3 months cycle expansion. But yes, it's hard, effort is required and "true" expansions.
What I say is that can be splitted over time, don't have to be all together. When people talk about the "social" part of WiS, bars, cambling games and so on, is simply because this is the more easy and imemdiate possible application. A good base to start with.

Then there's an industry/market integration related to the WiS items and modules (I mean not only avatar customization items here, but also everything related to WiS establishments building, set up and maintainence. And this is already a good intergation level with the EVE core mechanics.

The AVA structures exploration prototype described by the CCP OP here could be a relevant PVE implementation (and this another area of EVE in need of strong attention). But then the same tools used for this can be extended to add PVP oriented AVA gameplay like infiltrating FW outposts or sabotage against POS.

So here we have a new gameplay layer added to social, industry, market, PvE, PvP. That are all the major areas of EVE.

I know is hard, yes it requires CCP to re-focus on EVE instead of external problem. And I don't see this happening. I think the trend is a progressive nerf and downgrade from sandbox MMORPG down to games like Star Conflict, WoT and such.



To be fair Star Conflict isn't a bad game, though at the moment it's nothing like Eve, come the end of the year though when they've developed their 'Open Sandbox' mode which is currently in development and we can have gate camps and ganking in that then Eve will find itself with yet another competitor, one that can be played for free! This is why I am keen that CCP step up to the plate and develop WIS to set itself apart from the competition. It's easier today to make fun space games than ever before and whilst eve is an astounding technical achivement given the time it was made in, there's a lot better, newer code out there with better rendering engines that can be picked up and worked with by students.

This is why CCP need to live up to their promise of making Eve into a living work of science fiction and the ultimate sci fi simulator. A virtual world doesn't mean much without virtual people.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3375 - 2014-02-01 21:03:10 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
This is why CCP need to live up to their promise of making Eve into a living work of science fiction and the ultimate sci fi simulator.

For real Eve players it already is.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Seras Victoria Egivand
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3376 - 2014-02-01 21:05:23 UTC
Your right theres new games that will be coming out that will take users away because they offer what eve has been promising and has yet to deliver. Im not saying everyone will leave over night but 3000 users here and 3000 users there nitpicking at the user base will be there demise...

Look at World of warcraft... They went from 12 million to 8.9 million subs it didnt happen over night but games like Gw2 TSW Rift are pecking at there user base and dwindling it.
Seras Victoria Egivand
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3377 - 2014-02-01 21:06:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Seras Victoria Egivand
Rhes wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
This is why CCP need to live up to their promise of making Eve into a living work of science fiction and the ultimate sci fi simulator.

For real Eve players it already is.



Just keep telling yourself that... Fyi i treat posts from people like you with about as much worth as the paper its written on.... None.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3378 - 2014-02-01 21:09:57 UTC
Why are roleplayers always so angry?

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Seras Victoria Egivand
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3379 - 2014-02-01 21:11:39 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Why are roleplayers always so angry?



Prob for the same reason that everything that comes from your mouth sounds like something from the special Olympics.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3380 - 2014-02-01 21:27:33 UTC
Seras Victoria Egivand wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Why are roleplayers always so angry?



Prob for the same reason that everything that comes from your mouth sounds like something from the special Olympics.

Again with the personal attacks...you should try making your point without them.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise