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Balancing Feedback: Hybrid Turrets

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Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1181 - 2011-11-25 01:15:44 UTC
Strategic Cruisers are really BCs in everything but sig radius. IE, they are all pretty ******* slow.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Daedalus Arcova
The Scope
#1182 - 2011-11-25 01:25:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Daedalus Arcova
I don't buy that. The other 3 SCs are all a fair bit faster than their respective races' HACs (with the exception of the Vagabond, but that's... well, a Vagabond).

The Proteus is the odd one out. It's like the propulsion subsystems for Gallente and Amarr got mixed up.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#1183 - 2011-11-25 15:26:44 UTC
On the other hand Proteus is the single T3 that can get the most insane buffer tank sporting 400k EHP or more - Maybe they accidentally switched a few stats between the Proteus and the Legion?
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1184 - 2011-11-25 16:40:36 UTC
We fly T3's on the daily and I think Pattern will back me up when I say that I have never heard anyone on comms talk about getting any of the T3's, Loki included, for their awesome speed.


T3's are like BC's with hac resists. That is why folks fly them.
Daedalus Arcova
The Scope
#1185 - 2011-11-25 17:16:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Daedalus Arcova
Zarak1 Kenpach1 wrote:
We fly T3's on the daily and I think Pattern will back me up when I say that I have never heard anyone on comms talk about getting any of the T3's, Loki included, for their awesome speed.


Well, obviously. But speed is still very important, particularly for a ship that in fleets is almost always employed as a tackler, and when flying solo as a blasterboat.

Speed may not be the deciding factor in buying or fitting one, or incorporating one into a fleet, but speed still has a significant impact on its effectiveness.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1186 - 2011-11-25 17:26:00 UTC
stop talking about t3's u scrub. u dont know what youre saying, and thread has been completely derailed. i posted that fuckin fit to show you that rails work on the Proteus.
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1187 - 2011-11-25 17:44:20 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
stop talking about t3's u scrub. u dont know what youre saying, and thread has been completely derailed. i posted that fuckin fit to show you that rails work on the Proteus.



there's a difference between having rails work on the ship, and rails being effective on the ship.

you have yet to address the latter.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Daedalus Arcova
The Scope
#1188 - 2011-11-25 18:04:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Daedalus Arcova
Hungry Eyes wrote:
stop talking about t3's u scrub. u dont know what youre saying, and thread has been completely derailed. i posted that fuckin fit to show you that rails work on the Proteus.


You were talking about (at great length) one rail-using shitfit. I'm talking about the balancing of a hybrid ship in the wider context. This is a thread about balancing hybrids and hybrid ships, is it not?
Jaigar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1189 - 2011-11-25 18:31:41 UTC
Daedalus Arcova wrote:
Hungry Eyes wrote:
stop talking about t3's u scrub. u dont know what youre saying, and thread has been completely derailed. i posted that fuckin fit to show you that rails work on the Proteus.


You were talking about (at great length) one rail-using shitfit. I'm talking about the balancing of a hybrid ship in the wider context. This is a thread about balancing hybrids and hybrid ships, is it not?


Yup, should really get back on topic here.

Back to medium railguns, with the introduction of these new tier 3 BCs which most of them kite, will be it beneficial to start using more medium railguns? I like the idea of rails and other weapon systems to force longer range eWAR ships off the field, but with the current crucible changes, will the rail change be enough?
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1190 - 2011-11-25 19:34:22 UTC
Jaigar wrote:
Back to medium railguns, with the introduction of these new tier 3 BCs which most of them kite, will be it beneficial to start using more medium railguns? I like the idea of rails and other weapon systems to force longer range eWAR ships off the field, but with the current crucible changes, will the rail change be enough?


I can tell you about the Eagle, and Tengu

An Eagle can't fit a full rack of 250s, even with AWU V.

Tracking sucks and even when at 110-150 can't hit. I haven't tried the new changes with an Eagle yet, however with the bonuses I think they should change.

The Tangrail did okay. It was hard to tell when I tested it on SISI. Not as much range but it had a decent tank and was cap stable. Horribly eclipsed as anything viable in PvP versus missile launchers.

If the Eagle is supposed to irritate EWAR, snipe frigs and destroyers the damage bonus might be better off changing to 7.5% tracking bonus per level.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1191 - 2011-11-25 19:41:05 UTC
Railgun tracking should be doubled:P
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#1192 - 2011-11-25 20:00:23 UTC
Maxsim Goratiev wrote:
thoth rothschild wrote:
Drones are terrible for pvp

*Cough* *Cough* Domi pilot <<<



That guy never met some fleet of sentry domis spider rep/remote energy Lol
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#1193 - 2011-11-26 00:53:11 UTC
Pinky Denmark wrote:
On the other hand Proteus is the single T3 that can get the most insane buffer tank sporting 400k EHP or more - Maybe they accidentally switched a few stats between the Proteus and the Legion?

**** with the proteuses buffer tank and toys will be thrown out of the pram in a big way. Remember that survival statergy thing i mentioned? Thats what it looks like.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Maxsim Goratiev
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1194 - 2011-11-26 02:36:25 UTC
Daedalus Arcova wrote:


Seems a bit odd that the Proteus is only marginally faster than the Tengu, and significantly slower than the Legion (which in turn, is not much slower than a Loki). It's not like the Amarr are renowned for their mobility, is it?

The Proteus was overlooked in the Crucible blaster boat speed buff. It looks like it do with a serious boost. An immobile brick with massive ehp and a long point is a bit too limited a role for a T3 ship. Give it a serious speed buff.

that is stupid indeed. Why the hell is amarr faster? That does not make sense, CCP, plz fix/
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#1195 - 2011-11-26 02:47:04 UTC
Maxsim Goratiev wrote:
Daedalus Arcova wrote:


Seems a bit odd that the Proteus is only marginally faster than the Tengu, and significantly slower than the Legion (which in turn, is not much slower than a Loki). It's not like the Amarr are renowned for their mobility, is it?

The Proteus was overlooked in the Crucible blaster boat speed buff. It looks like it do with a serious boost. An immobile brick with massive ehp and a long point is a bit too limited a role for a T3 ship. Give it a serious speed buff.

that is stupid indeed. Why the hell is amarr faster? That does not make sense, CCP, plz fix/



Ho dammit very sure every sub combination were tested to arrive at this awesome conclusion right?
Because atm the only way to make that legion be faster is by sacrificing another stat of those propulsion subs , unless I'm wrong and taking in account subs fitted only, no mods prop whatsoever.

What subs did you fitted for each? -I mean you can say a lot of stuff but without numbers, and from what I can see on SISI, my prot is not bad, slightly better than before. + definitive changes aren't sat since CCP tallest is about to improve ship by ship what's needed to make those work properly.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#1196 - 2011-11-26 02:52:39 UTC
Pinky Denmark wrote:
On the other hand Proteus is the single T3 that can get the most insane buffer tank sporting 400k EHP or more



OC every time I use my Proteus I fit HG slaves + hardwirings +fleet boost + 25M boosters !!

How is this fair when I fly my poor tengu tanking like a king with crystals + booster+sub+amplifier+fleet boost+hardwirings+passive regen...

Indeed this is not fair ;(

Lol
Justin Cody
War Firm
#1197 - 2011-11-26 04:32:22 UTC
The problem with rails is that they were designed to fight at a distance that no longer is workable (thanks to the 250km locking cap) and insta-probing to warp your close range fleet on them.

Rails on cruisers and BC's can't compete with a similar alpha fleet because you can't fit a tank hard enough to actually compensate for the alpha fleet's alpha.

A rokh is one exception...but still blasters with some remote boosting can hit with null for 600 dps or so at 80km...

ranged fighting is outdated and has been nerf'd to hell against caldari/gallente rail boats in favor of lasers and artillery at what used to be medium but are now relatively long ranges that you cannot warp to with probes unless you already have the warp-in on the fleet or titan cyno bridge,
Maxsim Goratiev
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1198 - 2011-11-26 11:40:49 UTC
the solution is simple: let's extend locking range and warp-to range. That's makes the battlefield bigger, that's only fun. I can easily set up my Rokh to hit at 280 km, and that's not even all lvl 5's. Gun's optimal exceeding your locking range is silly. People warping to your sniper is also silly.
Sirius Cassiopeiae
Perkone
Caldari State
#1199 - 2011-11-26 12:09:14 UTC
Maxsim Goratiev wrote:
the solution is simple: let's extend locking range and warp-to range. That's makes the battlefield bigger, that's only fun. I can easily set up my Rokh to hit at 280 km, and that's not even all lvl 5's. Gun's optimal exceeding your locking range is silly. People warping to your sniper is also silly.



THIS, THIS, THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS!!!
Daedalus Arcova
The Scope
#1200 - 2011-11-26 13:12:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Daedalus Arcova
I'm all for expanding the battlespace, but rail dps only tickles from those sorts of ranges. Rails need another serious damage boost, to the point where they do more dps than beams. It's the only way to make them at all viable.