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[Rubicon 1.1] Omnidirectional Tracking Links

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Minmatar Factional Spy
BSI Reloaded
#141 - 2014-01-18 15:37:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Minmatar Factional Spy
...
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#142 - 2014-01-18 17:15:29 UTC
I have removed a rule breaking post and the one quoting it.

The rules:
11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.

The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Bob Niac
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2014-01-18 17:35:15 UTC
Fozzie, wouldn't you rather Omnis be falloff / optimal and the Nav computer handle tracking / speed?

[u]I <3 Logistics:[/u] Pilot of all  T2 logi and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrid. I don't make games, I play them. I get that ppl are passionate about change. I post here to plant seeds. You see your idea as is? Holy **** you win! So let's post, and see what the DEVs and our peers use.
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#144 - 2014-01-18 18:19:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeanne-Luise Argenau
great nerf the omnis

atleast when u make omnis to be the tracking comp for drones, then introduce a tracking enhancer for drones too.

Or introduce long and short range sentries for every damage type
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#145 - 2014-01-18 18:59:34 UTC
People like to compare sentry drones to turrets but they forget to mention the downsides of them

You can't align with sentry drones like you can with turret ships. So in PVP you're a sitting duck and missions you can't shoot and move between gates.

They can be attacked unlike turrets. In PVP just as in PVE you can pull them in but your DPS went down 20%.


The biggest problem is people seem to think balance means everything must be alike. By their thinking since tracking computers are active so omnis must be too. For gods sake please CCP... It's okay if something in the game is DIFFERENT... Not better... Not worse but DIFFERENT
I am disposable
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2014-01-18 19:07:04 UTC
IIshira wrote:
People like to compare sentry drones to turrets but they forget to mention the downsides of them

You can't align with sentry drones like you can with turret ships. So in PVP you're a sitting duck and missions you can't shoot and move between gates.

They can be attacked unlike turrets. In PVP just as in PVE you can pull them in but your DPS went down 20%.


The biggest problem is people seem to think balance means everything must be alike. By their thinking since tracking computers are active so omnis must be too. For gods sake please CCP... It's okay if something in the game is DIFFERENT... Not better... Not worse but DIFFERENT


Sentry drone using ships currently dominate the top 20 list by a massive margin. That clearly indicates there are balance issues. I tend to think a lot of it has to do with drone assist mechanics which are currently broken, but I think a pretty good argument can be made that sentries are overpowered even without it.
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#147 - 2014-01-18 20:57:33 UTC
I am disposable wrote:
IIshira wrote:
People like to compare sentry drones to turrets but they forget to mention the downsides of them

You can't align with sentry drones like you can with turret ships. So in PVP you're a sitting duck and missions you can't shoot and move between gates.

They can be attacked unlike turrets. In PVP just as in PVE you can pull them in but your DPS went down 20%.


The biggest problem is people seem to think balance means everything must be alike. By their thinking since tracking computers are active so omnis must be too. For gods sake please CCP... It's okay if something in the game is DIFFERENT... Not better... Not worse but DIFFERENT


Sentry drone using ships currently dominate the top 20 list by a massive margin. That clearly indicates there are balance issues. I tend to think a lot of it has to do with drone assist mechanics which are currently broken, but I think a pretty good argument can be made that sentries are overpowered even without it.


yeah but the way they change these just suck. Im OK with nerfing omnis but they should then also introduce passive module and best short and long range type for every damage type like i stated abit before
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#148 - 2014-01-18 21:16:47 UTC
The real drone nerf story.

Goons suck at anything beyond pressing F1.
Goons can't use drones, it's just to hard.
Goons are getting splatted by far lesser numbers because they suck. They blame drones.
Goons cry to CCP, the drones are blowing up our ships.
Goons cry to CCP, nerf drones cause we're losing even though we outnumber them 2 to 1. It's just not fair.
CCP, ok goons, we'll see what we can nerf so you don't look like the bunch of incompetent losers you are.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#149 - 2014-01-18 21:39:20 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
I am disposable wrote:
IIshira wrote:
People like to compare sentry drones to turrets but they forget to mention the downsides of them

You can't align with sentry drones like you can with turret ships. So in PVP you're a sitting duck and missions you can't shoot and move between gates.

They can be attacked unlike turrets. In PVP just as in PVE you can pull them in but your DPS went down 20%.


The biggest problem is people seem to think balance means everything must be alike. By their thinking since tracking computers are active so omnis must be too. For gods sake please CCP... It's okay if something in the game is DIFFERENT... Not better... Not worse but DIFFERENT


Sentry drone using ships currently dominate the top 20 list by a massive margin. That clearly indicates there are balance issues. I tend to think a lot of it has to do with drone assist mechanics which are currently broken, but I think a pretty good argument can be made that sentries are overpowered even without it.


That's another argument that drives me crazy. It must be OP because it's popular. Do we keep nerfing the top 20 ships till every ship in Eve sucks?

Should I be scared to fly a ship because CCP will think it's popular and nerf it? Roll

Sentry drone ships are popular due to drone assist mechanics. Not the drones or ships.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#150 - 2014-01-18 21:59:28 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
The real drone nerf story.

Goons suck at anything beyond pressing F1.
Goons can't use drones, it's just to hard.
Goons are getting splatted by far lesser numbers because they suck. They blame drones.
Goons cry to CCP, the drones are blowing up our ships.
Goons cry to CCP, nerf drones cause we're losing even though we outnumber them 2 to 1. It's just not fair.
CCP, ok goons, we'll see what we can nerf so you don't look like the bunch of incompetent losers you are.


It's clear you don't have a clue what doctrines both sides employ. I'll give you a hint: everyone uses sentry drones.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#151 - 2014-01-18 22:10:25 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
The real drone nerf story.

Goons suck at anything beyond pressing F1.
Goons can't use drones, it's just to hard.
Goons are getting splatted by far lesser numbers because they suck. They blame drones.
Goons cry to CCP, the drones are blowing up our ships.
Goons cry to CCP, nerf drones cause we're losing even though we outnumber them 2 to 1. It's just not fair.
CCP, ok goons, we'll see what we can nerf so you don't look like the bunch of incompetent losers you are.


It's clear you don't have a clue what doctrines both sides employ. I'll give you a hint: everyone uses sentry drones.


Well, you're in RAZOR Alliance, which is part of CFC, which are the ones crying for drone nerfs. So looks like you don't have a clue.

Why don't you elaborate. Why are you crying. Everyone has the same ships, mods, drones available to them. Yet all we see is goon tears.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2014-01-18 23:00:25 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Yes, please make Sentries track better, it's not like we are killing Interceptors with Battleships already.

This.

What the hell, CCP? Sentry tracking is way too OP. I sometimes wonder if the people over at CCP actually PvP.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#153 - 2014-01-18 23:20:58 UTC  |  Edited by: gascanu
I am disposable wrote:
IIshira wrote:
People like to compare sentry drones to turrets but they forget to mention the downsides of them

You can't align with sentry drones like you can with turret ships. So in PVP you're a sitting duck and missions you can't shoot and move between gates.

They can be attacked unlike turrets. In PVP just as in PVE you can pull them in but your DPS went down 20%.


The biggest problem is people seem to think balance means everything must be alike. By their thinking since tracking computers are active so omnis must be too. For gods sake please CCP... It's okay if something in the game is DIFFERENT... Not better... Not worse but DIFFERENT


Sentry drone using ships currently dominate the top 20 list by a massive margin. That clearly indicates there are balance issues. I tend to think a lot of it has to do with drone assist mechanics which are currently broken, but I think a pretty good argument can be made that sentries are overpowered even without it.


when was the last time when sentrys where rebalanced? do you know that? ofc you have no ideea, you know only to jump in with the rest of crybabys and cry "omg sentrys are op!!! ccp save us pls"

sentrys are in this iteration since some(allot) years ago, yet noone cryed about them being op; only after dominix/ ishtar rebalance they started to be used in large numbers. the new bonuses and drone assist mechanic made them very good at killing stuff, but to nerf them cose 2 ships can use them very well is pants on head ******** logic, sry
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#154 - 2014-01-19 00:15:30 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Neuntausend wrote:
Yes, please make Sentries track better, it's not like we are killing Interceptors with Battleships already.

This.

What the hell, CCP? Sentry tracking is way too OP. I sometimes wonder if the people over at CCP actually PvP.


I'm sure some at CCP play Eve on a regular basis but I bet most are too busy to do so. The good idea fairy whispers something in their ear and we have a new patch!
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2014-01-19 06:33:37 UTC
IIshira wrote:
I am disposable wrote:
IIshira wrote:
People like to compare sentry drones to turrets but they forget to mention the downsides of them

You can't align with sentry drones like you can with turret ships. So in PVP you're a sitting duck and missions you can't shoot and move between gates.

They can be attacked unlike turrets. In PVP just as in PVE you can pull them in but your DPS went down 20%.


The biggest problem is people seem to think balance means everything must be alike. By their thinking since tracking computers are active so omnis must be too. For gods sake please CCP... It's okay if something in the game is DIFFERENT... Not better... Not worse but DIFFERENT


Sentry drone using ships currently dominate the top 20 list by a massive margin. That clearly indicates there are balance issues. I tend to think a lot of it has to do with drone assist mechanics which are currently broken, but I think a pretty good argument can be made that sentries are overpowered even without it.


That's another argument that drives me crazy. It must be OP because it's popular. Do we keep nerfing the top 20 ships till every ship in Eve sucks?

Should I be scared to fly a ship because CCP will think it's popular and nerf it? Roll

Sentry drone ships are popular due to drone assist mechanics. Not the drones or ships.



+1

In the end this is a numbers game and even a particular ship/weapon is a few percent more effective in a particualr situation it will become dominant.

If you end up with a situation that everytime something is 5% better at some specific in game scenario you nerf it 20% because it became popular and the people were not willing or able to train for it complained about it being OP you will finish up with a game where:
- either what is worth flying cycles every patch,
- OR alternatively a game where there are no real choices as everything is acuallly identical to everything else.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2014-01-19 06:35:27 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Andy Landen wrote:
The passive mid slot omnis are becoming active with scripts, so how about giving us a low slot passive omni without scripts? TCs already have TEs for turrets. Give drone boats some love too with similar modules.

And how about giving us a feature for allowing the use of sentries while maintaining alignment, just like every other combat ship can already do? Sentries that warp to your ship like fighters when you leave grid or sentries that can attach to the ship's hull, if desired, and while attached can travel with the ship in alignment and warp in that way.



That would probably be strongly OP. Moving sentries would become incredibly tanky, and having battleship dps with pimped-vargur-tracking won't help that.

With that, sentries would just surpass EVERY other weapon system by a huge margin...



Well if the current stated intentions of making sentries identical to turrets in DPS/tracking/effectiveness are implemented then no not at all ... sentries will then be the same as turrets.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#157 - 2014-01-19 09:23:33 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Edmark I wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Once again, a PvE tactic is ruined by another bad CCP hire, who is obsessed with PvP


This is primarily a pvp game Br0beans. The challenge is balancing the two- hence the word: balance.


Ah. back to that canard.
One of your other zealots, Jenn whatever, has posted that 11% of the player base is in Sov alliances.
Hate to to break it to you, but once again we see a far larger group (PVE focused players), getting screwed to deal with a problem that ONLY occurs in large blob-sec fleet fights.


You get it wrong again. There are bout 90,000 characters in SOV holding alliances according to CCP the last time they put out the numbers. The 11% are characters IN null sec during the snap shoot, not all of which are sov alliance members (some are even npc corp alts used for scouting, afk cloaking, whatever).

A lot of those 90k SOV alliance characters are in high sec for various reasons, Like me for instance being in Lanngisi with 2 of therm running missions.

Even many non sov alliance characters are alts of people in sov alliance. This myth about the high majority is easily debunkable for anyone with any moral sense who is interested in the truth. No on would accuse you of that.


And in addition to what you said, we can't forget all other aspects of the game.

We have W-Space people.
We have low-seccers.
We have highsec wardeccers.
We have highsec miners.
We have market alts.
We have suicide ganking alts.
We have non-sentry using mission runners.
We have incursion runners.

I would have to estimate all said and done that approximately half of the population directly PvPs (even if not constantly, then preiodically and so it follows they would be concerned at least somewhat with PvP game balance), with the remaining half PvPing indirectly. The thing these people don't realize is that even their missions are PvP because it produces goods and ISK that goes into the market and causes inflation and manipulates prices for the rest of us. They're not blowing up our ships, but they are participating in affecting the overall market (which is very much player driven).
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#158 - 2014-01-19 11:24:48 UTC
Remove drone assist from the game.

The Tears Must Flow
FaulEnza N00bist
Dosis Facit Venenum
Nuesschenkartell.
#159 - 2014-01-19 12:04:02 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Remove drone assist from the game.


Not more, not less.
Arcos Vandymion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#160 - 2014-01-19 14:52:10 UTC
I'd preferr that someone finally makes Amarr Light/Medium/Heavy more powerful - the worst drones for the place two drone users in the galaxy - oh yeah and some V3 graphics. I don't think drones have been changed so far now have they.

Bets are on Domis will dominate the next AT too with those changes unless someone comes up with some fancy Vargur fits so we can have some more bets involving beards.

Andy Landen wrote:
Sentries that warp to your ship like fighters when you leave grid or sentries that can attach to the ship's hull, if desired, and while attached can travel with the ship in alignment and warp in that way.

Them's called turrets and no you won't get turrets that profit from your Drone SP. Your missiles aren't profiting from your Gunenry SP either or vice versa.