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[Rubicon 1.1] Omnidirectional Tracking Links

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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
#441 - 2014-02-11 16:17:20 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Shvak wrote:
Speak as someone who has always loved the rattlesnake. Can we possibly get some clue as to how the non-nerf bat is going to hit the ship. More dps via the missile system (extra hard point or two) or is it likely to be hull bonus to drones similar to the Ishtar and domi.
Would love to take my rattler out of its tomb for a spin.

My own 5 cents. I train missile skills early on in eve until I realized every sane toon owner was gun/drone training. It really would be nice if at least one of the faction battleships made it worth while training missiles skills again.

I hope they give it the same bonus as the Dominix. There is already the Raven, Navy Raven and Navy Scorpion that do missiles very well... I don't think they could make it a missile boat that is more powerful than the CNR because that would really be OP.

In theory a "Pirate Faction" battleship should be superior to their standard faction counterparts. At least this is true with all except the Rattlesnake and the SOE Nestor that just came out... They probably just released it kind of crappy so they can buff it later then people will be happy. It's better than releasing it OP then having to nerf it making everyone upset.

As to CCP announcing any specifics early I doubt they would do this till a final decision has been made.

I think the rattlesnake is a great and very powerful shield drone ship . It can fit a huge tank or buffer, a couple of neuts and do something like 1100dps to cruiser-sized targets in any damage type.

The omni change probably reduced its PVE capability but the PVP capability is stupendously good.

The Nestor is capable in groups (I have proven this on the test server) when flown very carefully as a small pack. However, it's nowhere near good value at current prices. For the same money I'd certainly be happier with 6 rattlesnakes rather than 2 Nestors on grid.

If the nestor was the same price as the rattlesnake, would I choose the rattlesnake still? I think that's a little closer call. I think they are about as powerful as each other as a pair, with the nestor getting a little more powerful up until it reaches its targeting limit.

I and a few mates sometimes run a doctrine of domis + geddons supporting each other with remote reps. A Nestor might be useful in this kind of spider fleet... but the cost...

As a side note, when fitting a Nestor or a Rattlesnake I would not dream of using large guns or missile launchers. Mediums actually apply more dps and leave plenty of CPU and power for things like neuts and remote repair.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".

Destriouth Hollow
#442 - 2014-02-22 15:53:49 UTC
Well the problem here is so laughably obvious that it's a pain to even state it:
(read only 7. for the short form)

1. Module-Bonus:
Most modules give bonuses around 12,5%-25%:
(those with boni around 25% are the ones that usually go to half of all ships flown around)
- Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane: 25% resistance bonus (max skills)
- Magnetic Field Stabalizer II: 1.1 * 1.105 = 21,55% damage bonus
- Reactor Control Unit: 15% Powergrid
- Overdrive Inector System II: 12,5% Speed
- Tracking Computer II some 15% boni

2. Ship:Bonus:
Ship-Bonuses usually look like that:
- 25% Turret Damage bonus (those already force the weapon onto you)
- 20% Resistance Bonus (usually force shield or armor onto you)

3. Special Ship-Bonus:
Some extraordinary bonus like the rokks:
- 50% boni to Hybrid optimal
are so heavy that not many ships have them and they are missing many other boni to compensate

4. Why do we need a 50% drone bonus on all drone-ships?
Now we have the following problem with drones:
- most ships can use them
- we wont dedicated drone ships
-> The only reason to do that is to give ALL of the drone-ships a high bonus (50%) to compensate.

5. What would happen if the bonus would be in line with the other bonuses?
If this would be put any lower one of the following problems would emerge:
- drones are well balances for drone-ships -> drones are far too strong for regular ships
- drones are well balanced for regular ships -> drones are too weak for drone ships
- one would have to remove drones from regular ships
- drone ships would need another bonus
That's why as long as there are regular ships with drones the high 50% drone damage bonus is important.

6. Why were all drone ships fair and it was possible to balance them all at once?
- All drone ships have a bandwith fitting to their size/cost and are capable of beeing drone ships
- All drone ships have a 50% damage bonus
- all drone ships are uncapable of using a secondary high-dmg weapon without gimping the ship
- All drone ships have regular other bonuses around 15-25%
- Those bonuses can be compensated and be worked around with modules who do around the same amount
- Because of stacking penalty its impossible to get one bonus over the top
- ship bonuses dont receive stacking penalties so its important that they are not too high

7. So what is messed up right now?
- The bonus of 37,5% tracking on the domi/ishtar is far too high
- The bonus of 37,5% optimal on the domi/ishtar is far too high
- its completly impossible for a regular drone ship to compensate for that without gimp-fits
Now ccp has bad choices:
- don't change anything and dominix/ishtar will be too strong and other drone ships will be too weak
- bring the tracking/optimal of the dominix/ishtar in line with gunships -> all other drone ships will have huge tracking issues
- bring the tracking/optimal of the regular drone-ships in line with gunships -> dominix/ishtar will be ridiculously strong

And ccp has some good choices:
- nerf the dominix/isthar in annother way to compensate for the godlike range/tracking and make them specialized (tank)
- give the 37,5% bonus to tracking/opti to ALL drone ships
- lower the tracking/opti bonus to a reasonable amount that usual drone ships can achieve due modules (20%)

What ccp has done here is a horrible choice of action:
The high bonus of 37,5% was already hard to achieve with the old omnis. With nerfing the omnis this has become utterly impossible now. With omnis and dominix/ishtar-bonuses as they are it's almost impossible to bring both in line.
-> reduce the tracking bonus to 4% per level and adjust the dominix/ishtar so they are still viable. Only then can all ships be usefull.
Arsine Mayhem
#443 - 2014-02-22 21:05:49 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

But the honest truth is that Sentries were too good relative to other comparable weapons. Their damage envelope (the combination of range, damage and tracking) is very good and was one of several contributing factors that were leading to Sentries becoming overly dominant in almost all areas of EVE. Like I said in the original post, the fact that these changes reduce the power of Omnis is completely intentional.

We also are aware that the Rattlesnake isn't in quite as strong of a place as many other Pirate BS right now, and that is high on our agenda at the moment.

Only on ships with a bonus for tracking and range. It is why the rattlesnake got screwed.