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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

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logic principle3
Doomheim
#3261 - 2014-01-06 14:37:02 UTC
This sounds much better than that whole WIS fiasco being a focus of some expansion that shall not be named. It actually has gameplay to it. *Hats off, and good luck* -I am looking forward to it.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#3262 - 2014-01-06 23:42:24 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
I think that we all should read what the CSM minutes have to say about avatar content.

Exactly, the word 'avatar' is not mentioned not even once in the whole minutes.

Admittedly, there is a slim chance (if you like playing lotteries by hoping to find a winner ticket on the pavement) that the heavily NDA'ed Project 2 or Project 3 are related to avatars, but I doubt it.


I doubt it too, but I bet avatars will feature in the advertising though. Any how it looks like jesus features are coming in an attempt to retain their engaged player base.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3263 - 2014-01-06 23:47:39 UTC
not meant as troll, but what is this 164 page thread about? Shocked
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#3264 - 2014-01-06 23:51:41 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:
not meant as troll, but what is this 164 page thread about? Shocked


Read page 1, in essence avatar content in eve online as an expansion of game play.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3265 - 2014-01-06 23:59:10 UTC
There are few cool games coming up such as Star Citizen, which in my opinion is going to be a copy of EVE online + Dust. It is thought that the SC boys have extraordinary brain matter to fit the whole into one game and onto the same platform.

So my thoughts go to those fantastic developers of EVE online... will they be instructed to start working again on EVE online to seriously expand the game and add content or will they keep rebalancing things until SC takes over the whole market share?
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#3266 - 2014-01-07 00:08:12 UTC
Ubat Batuk wrote:
There are few cool games coming up such as Star Citizen, which in my opinion is going to be a copy of EVE online + Dust. It is thought that the SC boys have extraordinary brain matter to fit the whole into one game and onto the same platform.

So my thoughts go to those fantastic developers of EVE online... will they be instructed to start working again on EVE online to seriously expand the game and add content or will they keep rebalancing things until SC takes over the whole market share?


Probably the latter, sc is going to be twitch based and they have a scaling engine that handles transitions between ship to avatar etc. Good use of modern technology. Eve will probably behave better server side though as combat will be instanced in sc or so I hear.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3267 - 2014-01-07 00:26:46 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
Colour me very positively surprised if either of the projects turns out to be Avatar related, but after years of disappointment on this end I'm not really holding my breath.


I imagine a day in the future in which someone will wake up and decide that because all other competing games have WIS they will also implement it.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#3268 - 2014-01-07 05:50:40 UTC
So I've found a game which is 0) non-instanced giant 1) sandbox 2) with PvP, theft, hilarious player courts (!), territory control, craft, vessels, alliances, housing, multi-person mounts, etc. 3) and it has native support for DX11 graphics and avatars are comparable to EVE's toons - it's using CryEngine 3 - while animations are much better and 4) it's free (PvP&PvE is free, craft and thievery require modest payments). The only downside - it's fantasy - but I can live with that as long as there is a lot of action (so far there was a lot).

Good luck to CCP competing with new generation of sandbox games like that with EVE's uncomfortable core gameplay from 2003 without expanding it with new/additional core (avatars).
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#3269 - 2014-01-07 13:07:56 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:
not meant as troll, but what is this 164 page thread about? Shocked


Schooling CCP about how they should follow the trend and build WiS instead of working on the core of the game, apparently. It's quite vast in scope, too - from completely unrealistic visions that would never actually work all the way to saying "everyone will migrate to SC anyway, because SC has WiS."

With CSM remaining rather focused on the matters that actually matter, I guess one of the NDA features could be a long-term sov revamp or changes to POSes. Which is, pretty much, the next thing we need.

Right after another round of what amusingly mostly forumgoers cry about - rebalancing. A chunk of T2 ships is still waiting for their turn.

When you think about it really, the ground is for peasants and DUST bunnies - a capsuleer doesn't bother himself/herself with going into a dangerous area, he/she just sends in goons. I mean, why risk being caught vulnerable, not protected by a few million skillpoints in gunnery and a rack of fully automatic 800mm howitzers?

You likely have enough ISK to own a small army and for a fistful of it a bunch of backwater world muppets will gladly suffer whatever gruesome fate awaits down the hallway.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#3270 - 2014-01-07 13:25:10 UTC
Some of the things people frequently ask for are actually the low-risk areas : Corp meeting rooms, bars, etc.
I can see why some capsuleers would want to stay in pod forever, but I can also see that some would prefer to stretch their legs from time to time.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#3271 - 2014-01-07 13:28:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Trii Seo wrote:
Carmen Electra wrote:
not meant as troll, but what is this 164 page thread about? Shocked


Schooling CCP about how they should follow the trend and build WiS instead of working on the core of the game, apparently. It's quite vast in scope, too - from completely unrealistic visions that would never actually work all the way to saying "everyone will migrate to SC anyway, because SC has WiS."


Yes, this thread is mostly people whinging who have vastly different (or implausible) views on how Eve should be. Just like every other thread on the forum.

Trii Seo wrote:
With CSM remaining rather focused on the matters that actually matter, I guess one of the NDA features could be a long-term sov revamp or changes to POSes. Which is, pretty much, the next thing we need.

Right after another round of what amusingly mostly forumgoers cry about - rebalancing. A chunk of T2 ships is still waiting for their turn.


Those things matter, and need fixing. The issue a lot of people have is that we're not seeing much of that either. The proportion of CCP's development time being spent of Eve has quite clearly been going down since Incursions* (when the fall in player numbers initially started pre-Incarna, and roughly when Dust, CARBON and WoD developement began). Now they're working towards a new Jesus Feature. Despite promising us that they wouldn't until everything else we were asking for at the time was covered.

* With the modest exception of Crucible. During which time CCP were scrambling to keep Eve alive after Incarnageddon.

Trii Seo wrote:
When you think about it really, the ground is for peasants and DUST bunnies - a capsuleer doesn't bother himself/herself with going into a dangerous area, he/she just sends in goons. I mean, why risk being caught vulnerable, not protected by a few million skillpoints in gunnery and a rack of fully automatic 800mm howitzers?

You likely have enough ISK to own a small army and for a fistful of it a bunch of backwater world muppets will gladly suffer whatever gruesome fate awaits down the hallway.


Some of the most powerful NPC capsuleers in recorded history spent little to no time in their ships. Jacus Radon, the Broker, the CEO of Ishikone etc etc. All they really risk on death outside the pod is a few memories.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
#3272 - 2014-01-07 13:49:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Esrevid Nekkeg
Doc Fury wrote:

How about a sink and vanity mirror? Or maybe a ceiling fan? I'm just spitballing here, and want to get in on all this free money disgruntled EVE players are throwing at other games because they contain such meaningful and useful pre-alpha features.
We already have a vanity mirror in the CQ. A ceiling fan would be nice though, it can become quite hot in there, especially since we can't open the door to let fresh air in.
And mind you, EvE is already in Beta!

In other words, you are continually patronizing WIS by nitpicking on minor details that might or might not be implemented. Instead you should look at a bigger picture. You might not like or be interested in the future development of WIS in EvE, a lot of others are.
Including me, for a broader immersion into the Science Fiction universe EvE is.

Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......

Teinyhr
Ourumur
#3273 - 2014-01-07 16:16:06 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
With CSM remaining rather focused on the matters that actually matter, I guess one of the NDA features could be a long-term sov revamp or changes to POSes. Which is, pretty much, the next thing we need.


Aside from the jesus feature thing someone before me just mentioned, your ramblings against WiS kind of lose some wind with that robotic arm and "torch" eye-implant of yours. I mean just saying if you don't care about avatar gameplay why do you bother dressing yours up?
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#3274 - 2014-01-07 16:37:19 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Heh, just look at what Hilmar said to Wired:

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-12/24/eve-valkyrie


Quote:
(...)

Have you played any other Oculus Rift games?

I've played a bit, but not as much as the guys who are working on this. They're keeping up with everything that's going on. My job is a lot now, not just connected to development like it used to be. I miss it because it's super fun to make games but I also need to focus on doing my actual job which is to make sure that the company is organised around our strategy and making sure we're making the right high level decisions.

(...)


Hillmar, as CEO in the company that might indeed be your job, but the quality of your performance while doing it is questionable, optimistically speaking.

Taking in consideration the options you've made in these last years regarding the Reinvented Wheelâ„¢ in avatar gameplay development (and its failure to deliver), the side projects development (and the state in which they can be currently found), the human resources management, the Somer Blink scandal and impunity given to those involved (having your boys unstick and close the thread? hoping that it will dissapear from General Discussion section of the forum and new player attention? I see what you did there Cool), one could say that it's not a job you have done too well.

Take for instance the marketing expense of millions of dollars you've chosen to make every year with these phony promotional videos, paying to have them spammed on Youtube ads.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

CCP marketing expense 2008: (8,524,124)
CCP marketing expense 2009: (9,410,916)
CCP marketing expense 2010: (9,769,965)
CCP marketing expense 2011: (9,912,335)
CCP marketing expense 2012: (12,567,302)


Hillmar, the best publicity your game can ever have is not the one you're spending millions of dollars with, trying to convince and illude people with imaginary gameplay.
It's the one made by people who come play your game, telling everybody and their parents to come play it because of how great it is and how blown away they were by it.
Wouldn't this money be better spent on having the people you fired still working at the company, giving them the tools they need to work and develop avatar gameplay and the other EVE features that are in need of attention?

Many people who work at the company might agree with this, but at the fear of losing their jobs too, might not want to speak out. I dare you to make an annonymous internal poll on the opinion of the company's employees about your performance as the company's CEO and the options you've made in the last years, and to release the results publically.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#3275 - 2014-01-07 17:17:38 UTC
I might've said in the thread before, there's absolutely nothing wrong with looking stylish. That said, development of the whole station thing shouldn't go before the development of spaceships.

And - yes - those people are out of the pod, that said they probably aren't involved in manual labour either. If I remember my lore right - correct me if I'm wrong - Roden being a politician and the broker one mysterious fellow that loves his jump clones. They're more likely to order people around and make spreadsheets, I'm guessing we're covered on the spreadsheet front.

Also, unless I understand it wrong - without his capsule to protect him, a pod pilot is essentially a mortal human. The pod itself does the brain scan thing when it detects a breach, the only person capable of transferring back to another body without this hardware is a DUST bunny.

Given that the scan essentially snapshots a pilot's brain and dumps it into another clone (resulting, yes, in memory loss should the clone be inferior due to it being unable to store everything transferred) while turning the previous body into a vegetable in the process it would be a nice question to ask - if you were shot outside of your pod, and your "self" not snapshotted, but your clone still woken up - would you still be you?

But yeah, that's trying to apply sense to this and it's not a wise thing to do anyway. As for the "Jesus Feature" - seems like they used the term and now everyone's tacking it on everything they develop, even though it appears to be more of a long-term plan of changes to existing gameplay elements that require changing.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Teinyhr
Ourumur
#3276 - 2014-01-07 18:15:26 UTC
A "Jesus Feature" is any feature that promises to change the game forever as we know it. The "build your own stargates, dream with me!" is also a jesus feature just like Incarna, Tyrannis, or the Dominion were supposed to be.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3277 - 2014-01-07 18:42:52 UTC
WiS would help me melt the brains of men even easier.... I like it!

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#3278 - 2014-01-07 19:20:21 UTC
Funny thing, interpretation - it seems CCP meant "Jesus Feature" as something along the lines of a feature that's meant to redeem everything and be important enough to neglect core aspects of the game in favour of it. Which was what sparked the riots of Incarna - it wasn't the fact WiS is a bad idea, it was the fact CCP neglected old issues in favour of a shoddily implemented, hardware-melting pointless feature.

Of course, such is the fate of definitions not set in stone - they are prone to being wrapped the way most fitting one's point of view. Meh, c'est la vie.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3279 - 2014-01-07 19:24:25 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
Funny thing, interpretation - it seems CCP meant "Jesus Feature" as something along the lines of a feature that's meant to redeem everything and be important enough to neglect core aspects of the game in favour of it. Which was what sparked the riots of Incarna - it wasn't the fact WiS is a bad idea, it was the fact CCP neglected old issues in favour of a shoddily implemented, hardware-melting pointless feature.

Of course, such is the fate of definitions not set in stone - they are prone to being wrapped the way most fitting one's point of view. Meh, c'est la vie.
CCP Seagull herself said that there will be no more Jesus features. Ever.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#3280 - 2014-01-07 19:39:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Dragon Khamez
Trii Seo wrote:
Funny thing, interpretation - it seems CCP meant "Jesus Feature" as something along the lines of a feature that's meant to redeem everything and be important enough to neglect core aspects of the game in favour of it. Which was what sparked the riots of Incarna - it wasn't the fact WiS is a bad idea, it was the fact CCP neglected old issues in favour of a shoddily implemented, hardware-melting pointless feature.

Of course, such is the fate of definitions not set in stone - they are prone to being wrapped the way most fitting one's point of view. Meh, c'est la vie.


It seems that CCP are doomed to keep on repeating the mistakes of the past. I mean will these guys ever learn.

The other question we all need to ask is are we receiving good value for money out of our monthly subscription payment or plex or whatever for our preferred play style.

I personally don't think I am at the moment as I'm not seeing any WIS development. I also don't care about POS's as our alliance only runs a handful and the funny mechanics are not a big issue for us. I also operate in NPC Null/Highsec and occasionally WH space where sov is not an issue and in doing so I tend to fly solo or in small gangs with a handful of good friends. I admit we've had some nice modules created that are simple to deploy in the field whilst you can also argue that ship balancing benefits everybody but I'm not feeling the value for money or customer satisfaction that I used to have.

Now I wouldn't mind betting that the Nullbears that clash daily in big fleets are also getting the shaft from CCP as all they've had at the moment is ship balancing when they want SOV overhauled. What about the low sec guys? Other than ship balancing they haven't had much attention from CCP just like the folks in HighSec who apart from ship balancing and recent buffs to mining barges also haven't had much love from CCP. Where's the much needed PVE overhaul? That would benefit about 70% of the game's population immediately.

Yes there's been some minor improvements and quite a lot of dumbing down (exploration anybody) but when I first Joined EVE online nearly 7 years ago, we would have all of the above in a patch. Expansions were something really special. So whether you support WIS or whether you want to see it die in a fire the question you should ask yourself is 'Am I getting good value from CCP' I would say that whatever your preferred gameplay you probably are not.

It's obvious where all of CCP's cash, energy and value is going though and that's on Dust, WOD (a turkey), mobile apps, Valkyrie and other secret stuff we're not allowed to know about as evidenced in the heavily NDA's and deliberately delayed CSM minutes. With Jesus features underdevelopment despite CCP promising not to until the game was fixed we can all take comfort in the fact that everybody has been lied to and none of us are doing well out of the present EVE experience.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...