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High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1121 - 2013-12-22 07:33:06 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Like I said, keep bleating the lie. If you want to pull out the 160 Mil/hr SoE figure (Something I seriously doubt even the average pirate BS on SoE missions makes), lets pull out the 250/hr Ratting Carrier. They exist also.
It just weakens your support for the area's you do need a buff in, namely the number per system that can be supported. Because you are seen to be trying to destroy highsec.


There has never been a 250 mil/hr carrier.

Supers and tracking titans? Once yes, but those were rightfully nerfed. Only a moron rats in a carrier now, not only are they highly vulnerable but they also do not generate as much isk as an ishtar.

Those numbers are correct as they stand right now. When 1.1 arrives it is possible that SOE mission income will rise a bit more. SOE agents are at the very high end of high sec mission income. Most level 4 mission agents will generate more than most anom ratting systems. It is entirely possible to match the best truesec system income with caldari navy agents in high sec.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1122 - 2013-12-22 07:39:55 UTC
BWAHAHAAHHA! Yea, keep pushing the line, I'm sure some people believe you. Having sat there and watched the 250 mil/hr carrier rat away, I know they are real.
Also I know 160 Mil/hr is not the normal SoE agent income. If you blitz in officer fit pirate ships and have one in every possible destination system and use an interceptor to warp between systems to save time I suppose it's possible.

Now stop trying to use the biggest edge case you can possibly come up with where SoE income has taken a temporary hike due to new items being released, and basic market forces will act on it to correct it, when you continually refuse to accept any ones actual achievements in Null as valid, dismissing them as 'random, pure luck, and in no way repeatable' or 'never existed' just because you can't/don't do it yourself despite the fact a number of people have achieved such things.

Especially since that edge case IS STILL LOWER INCOME THAN NULL.

And go complain about your actual issue which is system density. Or you will just keep more and more people not wanting to play in null because you guys throw your toys out of the cot all the time over things that aren't even true.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1123 - 2013-12-22 07:48:16 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
BWAHAHAAHHA! Yea, keep pushing the line, I'm sure some people believe you. Having sat there and watched the 250 mil/hr carrier rat away, I know they are real.
Also I know 160 Mil/hr is not the normal SoE agent income. If you blitz in officer fit pirate ships and have one in every possible destination system and use an interceptor to warp between systems to save time I suppose it's possible.

Now stop trying to use the biggest edge case you can possibly come up with where SoE income has taken a temporary hike due to new items being released, and basic market forces will act on it to correct it, when you continually refuse to accept any ones actual achievements in Null as valid, dismissing them as 'random, pure luck, and in no way repeatable' or 'never existed' just because you can't/don't do it yourself despite the fact a number of people have achieved such things.

Especially since that edge case IS STILL LOWER INCOME THAN NULL.

And go complain about your actual issue which is system density. Or you will just keep more and more people not wanting to play in null because you guys throw your toys out of the cot all the time over things that aren't even true.


SOE has always had very good income thanks to the sisters probes/launcher and the implants. And no, ratting carriers haven't been a thing for years now, hell, most of us don't even use battleships. Bury your head in the sand if you want but we will keep on pointing out game imbalances and with CCP driving ahead with big balance passes chances are they will be coming down on high sec income when they come around to fixing null secs problems. Afterall who are they going to listen to? The people posting real numbers from the game or someone who posted three questionable screenshot over the span of two months to argue that they get back to back great drops day in day out that nobody else can repeat?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1124 - 2013-12-22 07:58:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


SOE has always had very good income thanks to the sisters probes/launcher and the implants. And no, ratting carriers haven't been a thing for years now, hell, most of us don't even use battleships. Bury your head in the sand if you want but we will keep on pointing out game imbalances and with CCP driving ahead with big balance passes chances are they will be coming down on high sec income when they come around to fixing null secs problems.

If they do, enjoy your even deader null sec, because you will simply drive people out of the game by trying to fix a problem that doesn't actually exist in the first place.

Sure, SoE is good income, I never denied that, I'm even prepared to accept that a single person out there managed 160 mil/hr on SoE missions using the current temporary (Read the dictionary for the meaning of that word) inflation of value on SoE LP that won't last forever. It's already down to only around 2,900/lp for the Stratios. Depending exactly how cheap you get your minerals. And still dropping slowly.
But just because you don't do something, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Ratting carriers are obviously still a thing since people still hunt them. They might not be a thing that 'everyone' does, but that doesn't make them non existent. Nor worthless.

Like I said, stop trying to kill two birds with one stone. Stop whining about how much high sec makes when you can make isk in Null. Instead deal with the serious complaint which is that null simply can't support many people per system (assuming all systems get equally used & assuming we ignore NPC Null space since that blows SoE away quite happily).
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1125 - 2013-12-22 07:59:32 UTC
"Look at my 250m/hr ratting carrier! It makes 250m/hr so I can pay it back in 8 hours oh **** I'm tackled oh **** a cyno oh **** that hurts damn I lost my 2 bill ratting carrier but at least I made 250m/hr"

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1126 - 2013-12-22 08:00:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
BWAHAHAAHHA! Yea, keep pushing the line, I'm sure some people believe you. Having sat there and watched the 250 mil/hr carrier rat away, I know they are real.
Also I know 160 Mil/hr is not the normal SoE agent income. If you blitz in officer fit pirate ships and have one in every possible destination system and use an interceptor to warp between systems to save time I suppose it's possible.

Now stop trying to use the biggest edge case you can possibly come up with where SoE income has taken a temporary hike due to new items being released, and basic market forces will act on it to correct it, when you continually refuse to accept any ones actual achievements in Null as valid, dismissing them as 'random, pure luck, and in no way repeatable' or 'never existed' just because you can't/don't do it yourself despite the fact a number of people have achieved such things.

Especially since that edge case IS STILL LOWER INCOME THAN NULL.

And go complain about your actual issue which is system density. Or you will just keep more and more people not wanting to play in null because you guys throw your toys out of the cot all the time over things that aren't even true.


SOE has always had very good income thanks to the sisters probes/launcher and the implants. And no, ratting carriers haven't been a thing for years now, hell, most of us don't even use battleships. Bury your head in the sand if you want but we will keep on pointing out game imbalances and with CCP driving ahead with big balance passes chances are they will be coming down on high sec income when they come around to fixing null secs problems. Afterall who are they going to listen to? The people posting real numbers from the game or someone who posted three questionable screenshot over the span of two months to argue that they get back to back great drops day in day out that nobody else can repeat?

Did someone post a screenshot of a winning lottery ticket yet?

It's all the proof I need to spend my savings on lottery tickets

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1127 - 2013-12-22 08:01:07 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
"Look at my 250m/hr ratting carrier! It makes 250m/hr so I can pay it back in 8 hours oh **** I'm tackled oh **** a cyno oh **** that hurts damn I lost my 2 bill ratting carrier but at least I made 250m/hr"

Except I doubt even ratting carriers make 250mil/hr.

Please don't ask me about what happened when I tried ratting with my carrier ...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1128 - 2013-12-22 08:07:20 UTC
Awww, Poor Goonies, does it hurt actually having facts in front of you.
I mean, it's not like you control the space around the sanctuary corp which would get you more profit per hour than any SoE mission running ever can. So any SoE prices you could beat.....

But seriously, I get the issues with null sec population density. But whining over high sec income at the same time just isn't going to win you any support and it makes you all look like you have a bad case of sour grapes.
Because Null income is fine for that density level currently achievable. You just need to be able to achieve a higher density WITHOUT (& this is the key part) making the current density able to achieve silly high levels of income.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1129 - 2013-12-22 08:11:12 UTC
I get that you think it doesn't matter how much ISK you make in highsec and that it doesn't affect the game, yada yada, but it does. When people in highsec print the massive amounts of ISK that they do it causes inflation. The money supply increases, purchasing power goes down. Nerfing highsec levels of income is the only way to buff nullsec income without causing greater inflation which is worse for everybody.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1130 - 2013-12-22 08:13:12 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I get that you think it doesn't matter how much ISK you make in highsec and that it doesn't affect the game, yada yada, but it does. When people in highsec print the massive amounts of ISK that they do it causes inflation. The money supply increases, purchasing power goes down. Nerfing highsec levels of income is the only way to buff nullsec income without causing greater inflation which is worse for everybody.

It's too late goon, the gig is up

You're off the case, turn in your eveo gd posting badge and keyboard


hahah

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1131 - 2013-12-22 08:13:57 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

If they do, enjoy your even deader null sec, because you will simply drive people out of the game by trying to fix a problem that doesn't actually exist in the first place.

Sure, SoE is good income, I never denied that, I'm even prepared to accept that a single person out there managed 160 mil/hr on SoE missions using the current temporary (Read the dictionary for the meaning of that word) inflation of value on SoE LP that won't last forever. It's already down to only around 2,900/lp for the Stratios. Depending exactly how cheap you get your minerals. And still dropping slowly.
But just because you don't do something, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Ratting carriers are obviously still a thing since people still hunt them. They might not be a thing that 'everyone' does, but that doesn't make them non existent. Nor worthless.

Like I said, stop trying to kill two birds with one stone. Stop whining about how much high sec makes when you can make isk in Null. Instead deal with the serious complaint which is that null simply can't support many people per system (assuming all systems get equally used & assuming we ignore NPC Null space since that blows SoE away quite happily).


Its not temporary. Even before the new SOE ships it was providing a better income than anoms could. Remember, the LP that is being spent on the statios is no longer being spent on probes and implants. There is now more things to spend SOE LP on and when the battleship arrives, depending on its capabilities, we are going to see LP spread around more even after the initial surge so we will be seeing slightly higher income from SOE mission in high sec.

As for carriers, battleships out damage them and due to the very slow align time and warp speeds a lot of the cruisers will pull in more isk. Ratting carriers are flown by people such as yourself who have no idea what they are talking about and just remember that 4 years ago droneland bots ratted in Nyx and tracking Titans.

Fixing null sec means we have to restore the reward and the only way to do that is to give high sec the nerfs that they should have received when CCP nerfed null sec income over the last 10 years. Its no good fixing the problems with system overcrowding if the rewards are still less than high sec has to offer.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1132 - 2013-12-22 08:16:24 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

If they do, enjoy your even deader null sec, because you will simply drive people out of the game by trying to fix a problem that doesn't actually exist in the first place.

Sure, SoE is good income, I never denied that, I'm even prepared to accept that a single person out there managed 160 mil/hr on SoE missions using the current temporary (Read the dictionary for the meaning of that word) inflation of value on SoE LP that won't last forever. It's already down to only around 2,900/lp for the Stratios. Depending exactly how cheap you get your minerals. And still dropping slowly.
But just because you don't do something, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Ratting carriers are obviously still a thing since people still hunt them. They might not be a thing that 'everyone' does, but that doesn't make them non existent. Nor worthless.

Like I said, stop trying to kill two birds with one stone. Stop whining about how much high sec makes when you can make isk in Null. Instead deal with the serious complaint which is that null simply can't support many people per system (assuming all systems get equally used & assuming we ignore NPC Null space since that blows SoE away quite happily).


Its not temporary. Even before the new SOE ships it was providing a better income than anoms could. Remember, the LP that is being spent on the statios is no longer being spent on probes and implants. There is now more things to spend SOE LP on and when the battleship arrives, depending on its capabilities, we are going to see LP spread around more even after the initial surge so we will be seeing slightly higher income from SOE mission in high sec.

As for carriers, battleships out damage them and due to the very slow align time and warp speeds a lot of the cruisers will pull in more isk. Ratting carriers are flown by people such as yourself who have no idea what they are talking about and just remember that 4 years ago droneland bots ratted in Nyx and tracking Titans.

Fixing null sec means we have to restore the reward and the only way to do that is to give high sec the nerfs that they should have received when CCP nerfed null sec income over the last 10 years. Its no good fixing the problems with system overcrowding if the rewards are still less than high sec has to offer.

So what is the isk per hour of a tracking titan

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1133 - 2013-12-22 08:18:35 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I get that you think it doesn't matter how much ISK you make in highsec and that it doesn't affect the game, yada yada, but it does. When people in highsec print the massive amounts of ISK that they do it causes inflation. The money supply increases, purchasing power goes down. Nerfing highsec levels of income is the only way to buff nullsec income without causing greater inflation which is worse for everybody.

Except making more people able to rat/anom/sig per Null System would not significantly increase the overall amounts of isk. (Also note that a lot of isk printing happens in Null Ratting also, it's not just a high sec thing, as previous CCP figures have shown as well.). If anything it might even lower the isk coming into the game, since High Sec income is almost all based in isk & LP (Though LP removes Isk out of the game also) while Null Sec income includes significant amounts of rare loot, which while it has an isk value doesn't add isk into the overall economy.

So even though Nulls overall income is higher, the pure isk part of the income doesn't have to be.

Also CCP's figures have shown that inflation on most items has been directly tied to the mineral market and the changes they have made to mineral availability & requirements for BPO's, not the overall isk on the market. Only a few items break that mould which doesn't make for overall market inflation as a result.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1134 - 2013-12-22 08:21:56 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Also CCP's figures have shown that inflation on most items has been directly tied to the mineral market and the changes they have made to mineral availability & requirements for BPO's, not the overall isk on the market. Only a few items break that mould which doesn't make for overall market inflation as a result.


The runaway inflation only stopped when CCP nerfed incursions hard.

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#1135 - 2013-12-22 08:22:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

If they do, enjoy your even deader null sec, because you will simply drive people out of the game by trying to fix a problem that doesn't actually exist in the first place.

Sure, SoE is good income, I never denied that, I'm even prepared to accept that a single person out there managed 160 mil/hr on SoE missions using the current temporary (Read the dictionary for the meaning of that word) inflation of value on SoE LP that won't last forever. It's already down to only around 2,900/lp for the Stratios. Depending exactly how cheap you get your minerals. And still dropping slowly.
But just because you don't do something, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Ratting carriers are obviously still a thing since people still hunt them. They might not be a thing that 'everyone' does, but that doesn't make them non existent. Nor worthless.

Like I said, stop trying to kill two birds with one stone. Stop whining about how much high sec makes when you can make isk in Null. Instead deal with the serious complaint which is that null simply can't support many people per system (assuming all systems get equally used & assuming we ignore NPC Null space since that blows SoE away quite happily).


Its not temporary. Even before the new SOE ships it was providing a better income than anoms could. Remember, the LP that is being spent on the statios is no longer being spent on probes and implants. There is now more things to spend SOE LP on and when the battleship arrives, depending on its capabilities, we are going to see LP spread around more even after the initial surge so we will be seeing slightly higher income from SOE mission in high sec.

As for carriers, battleships out damage them and due to the very slow align time and warp speeds a lot of the cruisers will pull in more isk. Ratting carriers are flown by people such as yourself who have no idea what they are talking about and just remember that 4 years ago droneland bots ratted in Nyx and tracking Titans.

Fixing null sec means we have to restore the reward and the only way to do that is to give high sec the nerfs that they should have received when CCP nerfed null sec income over the last 10 years. Its no good fixing the problems with system overcrowding if the rewards are still less than high sec has to offer.


I just can't believe the chutzpah you goons have to keep spouting the complete lies about your income levels. Total and utter fabrications. How many supercaps does the CFC have now? Two, three.....1000?

I guess CCP is not making high sec stations conquerable after all. If they were, the blob-sec propaganda machines would not be gearing up so much with the latest drive to crush high sec income. Or maybe you just want to ensure that any of your opposition in the game can never amass enough funds to reclaim null sec space if they are driven from it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1136 - 2013-12-22 08:24:16 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

So what is the isk per hour of a tracking titan


It used to be 300 mil/hr+

or -1 titan if FA.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1137 - 2013-12-22 08:24:22 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Also CCP's figures have shown that inflation on most items has been directly tied to the mineral market and the changes they have made to mineral availability & requirements for BPO's, not the overall isk on the market. Only a few items break that mould which doesn't make for overall market inflation as a result.


The runaway inflation only stopped when CCP nerfed incursions hard.


The 'runaway inflation' only existed in your mind. Possibly it was having impact on the plex market also. But not on general day to day items most pilots need.
Same as the null income being lower is only in your mind.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1138 - 2013-12-22 08:27:45 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


I just can't believe the chutzpah you goons have to keep spouting the complete lies about your income levels. Total and utter fabrications. How many supercaps does the CFC have now? Two, three.....1000?

I guess CCP is not making high sec stations conquerable after all. If they were, the blob-sec propaganda machines would not be gearing up so much with the latest drive to crush high sec income. Or maybe you just want to ensure that any of your opposition in the game can never amass enough funds to reclaim null sec space if they are driven from it.


We got our own Tech empire nerfed and accepted more nerfs to our anoms to end the blaster farming.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1139 - 2013-12-22 08:28:13 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

So what is the isk per hour of a tracking titan

It used to be 300 mil/hr+

or -1 titan if FA.

Wow nullsec is pretty good


you see how this works.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1140 - 2013-12-22 08:29:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


I just can't believe the chutzpah you goons have to keep spouting the complete lies about your income levels. Total and utter fabrications. How many supercaps does the CFC have now? Two, three.....1000?

I guess CCP is not making high sec stations conquerable after all. If they were, the blob-sec propaganda machines would not be gearing up so much with the latest drive to crush high sec income. Or maybe you just want to ensure that any of your opposition in the game can never amass enough funds to reclaim null sec space if they are driven from it.

We got our own Tech empire nerfed and accepted more nerfs to our anoms to end the blaster farming.

if you want to know about our supercaps please ask progodlegend who probably has multiple cfc supercap spies

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?