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High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1101 - 2013-12-21 06:22:33 UTC
hyhn wrote:
just wanted to get this in before this thread is locked.

thanks Infinity for dropping the info out and being the lightning rod. Reason does not work against propoganda and clearly neither does data. Of course, the fact that all your detractors come from one faction does not help their case one bit.

the path/method you laid out for exploration looks to be an interesting diversion. Think I may give it a try just to say check 1 thing off my New Eden bucket list.

One question for your detractors -- if with all your numbers, all that space, all of your organization, all of your isk and resources you can't find something profitable relative to the risk) to do -- why hold all that space ?

The true wealth generators are not in Empire but turning empire into the slums would do wonders for your pool of f1 monkeys

+1 like for being interesting Infinity

hyhn

Sockpuppetry?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1102 - 2013-12-21 06:25:08 UTC
hyhn wrote:
just wanted to get this in before this thread is locked.

thanks Infinity for dropping the info out and being the lightning rod. Reason does not work against propoganda and clearly neither does data. Of course, the fact that all your detractors come from one faction does not help their case one bit.

the path/method you laid out for exploration looks to be an interesting diversion. Think I may give it a try just to say check 1 thing off my New Eden bucket list.

One question for your detractors -- if with all your numbers, all that space, all of your organization, all of your isk and resources you can't find something profitable relative to the risk) to do -- why hold all that space ?

The true wealth generators are not in Empire but turning empire into the slums would do wonders for your pool of f1 monkeys

+1 like for being interesting Infinity

hyhn


I see you are just going to ignore the fact that it is impossible for 35000 CFC members to run sigs (you can only sustain around 100-150 per region) and the fact that the main source of income, anoms, can only match most high sec level 4 agents and most null space is made up of systems that cannot even match that. The few good truesec systems are also full with just 10 people and provide less income than say, SOE agents in high sec.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1103 - 2013-12-21 06:40:04 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
hyhn wrote:
just wanted to get this in before this thread is locked.

thanks Infinity for dropping the info out and being the lightning rod. Reason does not work against propoganda and clearly neither does data. Of course, the fact that all your detractors come from one faction does not help their case one bit.

the path/method you laid out for exploration looks to be an interesting diversion. Think I may give it a try just to say check 1 thing off my New Eden bucket list.

One question for your detractors -- if with all your numbers, all that space, all of your organization, all of your isk and resources you can't find something profitable relative to the risk) to do -- why hold all that space ?

The true wealth generators are not in Empire but turning empire into the slums would do wonders for your pool of f1 monkeys

+1 like for being interesting Infinity

hyhn

Sockpuppetry?

not on the general discussion forums

You know, mybe they think there are actually people who will worship them like that. Scary. Can we get Xenuria here for a bit to compare

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1104 - 2013-12-21 08:31:10 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Confirming null is way easier to make spaec moneys in. Way easier....
So much concern with isk/hr comes from oddball loners who know everything and aren't willing to take their place in a group they can't dominate. ...


Not empty self quoting, i've lost track of the posts where OP went on about forcing docking rights in PB, posted dubious screenshots then garbage screenshots that were months out of date.
50 odd pages of dissembling, semantic games, sockpuppetry and proof that the OP longs to brag and look down on others in the service of some secret agenda that interests few and convinces none.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1105 - 2013-12-21 10:11:22 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Confirming null is way easier to make spaec moneys in. Way easier....
So much concern with isk/hr comes from oddball loners who know everything and aren't willing to take their place in a group they can't dominate. ...

Not empty self quoting, i've lost track of the posts where OP went on about forcing docking rights in PB, posted dubious screenshots then garbage screenshots that were months out of date.
50 odd pages of dissembling, semantic games, sockpuppetry and proof that the OP longs to brag and look down on others in the service of some secret agenda that interests few and convinces none.

Wait... oddball loners

at least they're better than dirty blobbers, eh

eh?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1106 - 2013-12-21 10:19:50 UTC
Hey do you know how I can get permissions to call for forum posting CTAs?
Whoops that wasn't supposed to be sent here.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1107 - 2013-12-21 10:23:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Hey do you know how I can get permissions to call for forum posting CTAs?
Whoops that wasn't supposed to be sent here.

Incriminating evidence of attempts to crash the General Discussion node.

Hurry, gotta let en24 know that James Amril-Kesh is going to get in trouble. Have some chat logs and a pastebin as proof


(This was using the combined ENLI-WIDOT posting fleet)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Good Posting
Doomheim
#1108 - 2013-12-21 12:07:14 UTC
I understand why the average null grunt feels like a puddle slurper in this ocean of isk and then comes here to complaint because i was there and one good day i saw the light.

I used to hate hi sec too. I posted things like "remove l4s from hi sec grrrr!". But my soul was healed after i right clicked my name and selected the quit corp option. Now, the butt hurt is gone, i'm in peace with the rest of the eve world and i'm ejoying the game again.

That self destruct of my pod at the B-D undock was like a true reborn.
Jaxon Grylls
Institute of Archaeology
#1109 - 2013-12-21 13:24:45 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:


Its just pointless to continue to discuss this topic based on your deliberately ignorant replies, obfuscations, straw men and randomly regurgitated nonsense I have already repeatedly and properly refuted, we're just going around in circle.



Hint, if you are tired of this thread then can I suggest not feeding the trolls by ceasing to post.

A threadnaught indeed, so much posted, so little content.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1110 - 2013-12-21 13:30:39 UTC
Jaxon Grylls wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:


Its just pointless to continue to discuss this topic based on your deliberately ignorant replies, obfuscations, straw men and randomly regurgitated nonsense I have already repeatedly and properly refuted, we're just going around in circle.



Hint, if you are tired of this thread then can I suggest not feeding the trolls by ceasing to post.

A threadnaught indeed, so much posted, so little content.



Conversely, if one did not want deliberate ignorance, obfuscations, strawmen and randomly regurgitating nonsense, one would not read an Infinity Ziona thread.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#1111 - 2013-12-21 15:59:17 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
Some reality to the situation:

1. Run first two stages of FSP
2. Spend fuel and time getting capital to final stage
3. Loot 100m worth of OSE

^^more worth your time to mission

1. Run first room of _____
2. Run second room
3. No faction spawn, shoot stuff, no escalation

^^more worth your time to mission

1. Run first room of ______
2. Run second room
3. Faction Spawn! Yay! Dropped....a tag
4. Escalation Yay!
5. Fly to first escalation
6. Run first esc
7. No faction spawn, oh well on to next one!
8. Fly to second esc
9. Run second esc
10. A faction spawn!! Dropped....tags.
11. Well, at least it escalated, right?
12. Fly to third escalation, by now you are in some NPC region, drone lands, or jove space.
13. Run third (final this time) esc
14. Barely tank it, but as expected all is well, 3 hours later.
15. Loot...100m OSE. Or a 70m hardener.


Methinks you haven't completed enough exploration to truly see the pattern. It is essentially make-work gambling, and the payouts are great, if you get them. When you don't, you sincerely wish you had spent the time doing just about anything else. No the bounties are not that good, if people even ran exploration for the bounties.

Great you had some luck but don't get peoples' hopes up expecting 1b/hour because that's not the reality.

On the other hand, I absolutely love this thread, since it may bring juicy loot pinatas like that ishtar into a region near me!!



Ziona's fantasy land:

1. Log in
2. ?????
3. 50 bajullion (originally a typo but it has a nice ring to it don't you think?) isk/hour

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#1112 - 2013-12-22 05:14:30 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
If I screenshot my Aeon docked in Jita 4-4, can we move past the idea that screenshots are proof of anything? This is even ignoring the fact your screenshots don't show how that loot arrived in your hangar, just "Like one site honest" and apparently we just accept that.

Jesus wept.

Lol. If you were bright you would have counted the number of OE in the hold, that gives you a good idea of how many sites were run. Also you might notice that the 23rd OE are missing so there are more sites that loot came from than just the OE in the hold. X-Types don't drop from 21st afaik.

As to why they are missing, Rasta sold them to buy the blockade runner so he could go around all the stations I dropped the loot off at via random wormholes and then cart them to Jita.

Time. Our point is about time. And not just the time to run the sites.

How is it not going my way lol. You look like fools continuing to argue in the face of all the facts, you have opinions and they're not very good ones, and I have proof, in the form of screens shots, an extra 7 accounts, lots and lots of contracted faction bpc anyone can look at for themselves if they look up my alts, and you have opinions, and again, not very good ones :)

Its just pointless to continue to discuss this topic based on your deliberately ignorant replies, obfuscations, straw men and randomly regurgitated nonsense I have already repeatedly and properly refuted, we're just going around in circle.

It feels very similar to those fair attractions, where the clown heads pop up and you have to smash it on the head, then they pop up somewhere else, same head different place. You're arguments are the heads. I keep smashing them and low and behold, they pop again, and again, and again. Its an exercise in futility ffs, you're boring me :)




This is how the forum trolls feed. When they see they are not or cant counter facts, or a topic they don't like, they start a feeding frenzy to lock the topic.
diddley hoots
DIDDLY HOOTS
#1113 - 2013-12-22 05:36:44 UTC
id lose interest if i made 1 billion isk an hour. im sorry for your loss.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1114 - 2013-12-22 06:18:20 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:


This is how the forum trolls feed. When they see they are not or cant counter facts, or a topic they don't like, they start a feeding frenzy to lock the topic.


Three questionable screenshots taken over the span of 2 months vs hard numbers from CCP themselves.

Which is the more believable?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1115 - 2013-12-22 06:25:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:


This is how the forum trolls feed. When they see they are not or cant counter facts, or a topic they don't like, they start a feeding frenzy to lock the topic.


Three questionable screenshots taken over the span of 2 months vs hard numbers from CCP themselves.

Which is the more believable?

Except the hard numbers from CCP actually support the idea that null earns more isk per person. Especially since the hard numbers I am aware of are isk faucets while some of the biggest income sources in Null are not isk faucets, i.e. Moon Goo.
But keep throwing it around and maybe you will convince a few more nullbears they are doing it wrong and would make 500 mil/hr in high sec.

Risk vs Reward you can argue, though like everything in EVE I believe it's in a moderately good place as it is, because it's not meant to be a linear scale of risk vs reward, but for 10% reward increase vastly more risk.
But trying to pretend that those who actually do bother with the risk in Null and mitigate it appropriately don't make more than a high sec player is a joke.
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1116 - 2013-12-22 06:31:39 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
...
But trying to pretend that those who actually do bother with the risk in Null and mitigate it appropriately don't make more than a high sec player is a joke.


I see you take OP at face value, the point is: OP claims to make bazillions per hr doing what anyone could do if they weren't all sheeplike idiots.
Arguing the numbers or viability is missing the whole miserable vampire point.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1117 - 2013-12-22 06:38:16 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Except the hard numbers from CCP actually support the idea that null earns more isk per person. Especially since the hard numbers I am aware of are isk faucets while some of the biggest income sources in Null are not isk faucets, i.e. Moon Goo.
But keep throwing it around and maybe you will convince a few more nullbears they are doing it wrong and would make 500 mil/hr in high sec.

Risk vs Reward you can argue, though like everything in EVE I believe it's in a moderately good place as it is, because it's not meant to be a linear scale of risk vs reward, but for 10% reward increase vastly more risk.
But trying to pretend that those who actually do bother with the risk in Null and mitigate it appropriately don't make more than a high sec player is a joke.


SOE missions in high sec will generate up to 160 mil/hr

The best anom systems will generate 90-100 mil/hr

Sigs will support at best 100-150 people per region. We have 35000 in the CFC alone.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#1118 - 2013-12-22 06:47:32 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:


This is how the forum trolls feed. When they see they are not or cant counter facts, or a topic they don't like, they start a feeding frenzy to lock the topic.


Three questionable screenshots taken over the span of 2 months vs hard numbers from CCP themselves.

Which is the more believable?

Except the hard numbers from CCP actually support the idea that null earns more isk per person. Especially since the hard numbers I am aware of are isk faucets while some of the biggest income sources in Null are not isk faucets, i.e. Moon Goo.
But keep throwing it around and maybe you will convince a few more nullbears they are doing it wrong and would make 500 mil/hr in high sec.

Risk vs Reward you can argue, though like everything in EVE I believe it's in a moderately good place as it is, because it's not meant to be a linear scale of risk vs reward, but for 10% reward increase vastly more risk.
But trying to pretend that those who actually do bother with the risk in Null and mitigate it appropriately don't make more than a high sec player is a joke.


There was a thread recently where it was proved that an ishtar can run level 3 missions @ 50mil/hr blitzing. A figure that didn't particularly suprise me. It may in fact be increased now, because the ishtar in question was spending more than 40% of the time in warp, and there is now an implant set for that.

However one imagines the average pilot earns about 8m/hr running level 3 missions because well they suck, they have low sp and they are flying a drake.

There are also people that doggedly earn 20mil hr in L4s, despite it being possible to earn 70m/hr with a T1 dominix blitzing for a navy and over 100m/hr for sisters. Note that the same ship cannot shoot much more than 75m/hr in a pure diet of gurista forsaken hubs.

Also anything based on CCP checking bounty rates will of course fail, as we shoot far more bounties here, and no LP, in fact even when I go fetch a c-type pith item, I have to clear 30m+ of bounties out the way just to get to it (and c-type pith is a dead loot table).

Any highsec vs nullsec income comparison including the whole population will be biased by the presence of newbies, newbie content, and terrible players who can't earn good isk all of which are congregated in highsec.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1119 - 2013-12-22 07:23:29 UTC
Like I said, keep bleating the lie. If you want to pull out the 160 Mil/hr SoE figure (Something I seriously doubt even the average pirate BS on SoE missions makes), lets pull out the 250/hr Ratting Carrier. They exist also.
It just weakens your support for the area's you do need a buff in, namely the number per system that can be supported. Because you are seen to be trying to destroy highsec.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1120 - 2013-12-22 07:25:09 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
I'm still getting a kick out of the OP basically making the argument that since they won millions playing the lottery, everyone could be millionaires by playing the lottery.


Then again, companies running lotteries wouldn't be making millions themselves if people didn't fall for this fallacy in real life :negative:

Not to mention that if fancy loot dropped with any regularity it wouldn't be worth nearly as much.


Now if somebody had kicked a hole in OP with simple arithmetic like that back in page one, maybe there wouldn't be 50 pages of this.
Or maybe there would. At least by now OP has definitely left the LOL I TROL JOO territory, so must actually believe the lottery is a source for all to get fabulously wealthy!!!

Anyone not doing so must be weak, stupid or some other version of a bad person, it seems. Ass burgers, ass burgers everywhere.

So far the only person that has posted proof - screen shots showing ridiculous amounts of high end loot, is me. All you have offered is opinion and bias. My screens disprove your 'math' :)



Oh yah? Check out all these screen shots proving we can all win the lottery.

http://www.google.com/search?q=lottery+winner&tbm=isch