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Khanh'rhh

Sparkle Motion.

Likes received: 3,519

#1041 - 2013-12-20 23:45:43 UTC

Like, Ziona has apparently been playing the game for 10 years but still can't grasp supply and demand. There's either a willful ignorance underpinning the argument, or they're the kind of person who lacks all inherent mathematical skill, and sits in a casino and says "but no see it will pay out soon theres a pattern"

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

James Amril-Kesh

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 11,532

#1042 - 2013-12-20 23:46:41 UTC

Pinky Hops wrote:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Pinky Hops wrote:

this might have a shred of merit if nullsec was packed or something.

considering its nearly empty and nowhere near saturation, it's irrelevant. it's like talking about overpopulation when you already have a 10:1 food surplus.

This might be news to you, but we're deployed.
Nobody's doing much ratting right now (if they are, their corps probably aren't too happy with them).

it's been this way forever. i didn't even notice the difference between "deployment" and "undeployed."

it has never been near saturation, ever. maybe select few systems in particular regions which would be obviously identifiable on the map.

the vast majority of nullsec? empty. again, pretty provable by just opening up the map.

There's also a thing called system upgrades...

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Pinky Hops

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 512

#1043 - 2013-12-20 23:46:54 UTC

Khanh'rhh wrote:

yes, a vague reference to supply and demand and some ad hominem surely proves that nullsec is not profitable.

you are a mathematical genius.


James Amril-Kesh Viziam Amarr Empire Likes received: 11,532	#1044 - 2013-12-20 23:48:05 UTC That "vague reference" would be to previous posts where it was discussed in significantly greater detail. Not our fault you "missed" them. Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Khanh'rhh

Sparkle Motion.

Likes received: 3,519

#1045 - 2013-12-20 23:50:39 UTC

It's not a "vague reference" it's a principle. I shouldn't need to apply it for you (though I actually have several times you guys just ignore it because you don't want it to be true).

Pinky Hops

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 512

#1046 - 2013-12-20 23:50:42 UTC | Edited by: Pinky Hops

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

That "vague reference" would be to previous posts where it was discussed in significantly greater detail.
Not our fault you "missed" them.

if it's the "if it is valuable than you couldn't have found it because otherwise it wouldn't be valuable" argument, then it's ignored because it's a ******* dumb strawman.

maybe the reason you don't find good loot is that you invent for yourself infinite excuses to not look for it.

"i'll never find it."

"i'm not allowed to farm in that space."

"i'd rather do repetitive missions in highsec"

"the system could not support every single person in the game farming it at the same time. that means i should not be in this system."

"i have a false sense of morals and feel the need to pay strangers for the privilege to farm random spawns even though I could just walk in and do it anyways without paying anybody."

"i am trolling on the forums and want to keep people out of my profitable nullsec space. and feel that this is an effective means."

James Amril-Kesh

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 11,532

#1047 - 2013-12-20 23:52:56 UTC | Edited by: James Amril-Kesh

Pinky Hops wrote:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

That "vague reference" would be to previous posts where it was discussed in significantly greater detail.
Not our fault you "missed" them.

Perhaps you should actually look up the definition of strawman before you start using it, especially since you blatantly commit the fallacy in the same sentence.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)


Pinky Hops Caldari Provisions Caldari State Likes received: 512	#1048 - 2013-12-20 23:53:34 UTC Oh the irony.

Khanh'rhh

Sparkle Motion.

Likes received: 3,519

#1049 - 2013-12-20 23:53:58 UTC | Edited by: Khanh'rhh

Here's the rub with this whole thing.

For all of Ziona's postulates and re-stances on the same argument to be true, then we look at something like:

- Nullsec exploration is massively profitable
- Because no one is doing it

Ergo, if we actually realised ~~the truth~~ and Goonrushed it one of the above stops being true, and nullsec income is now poor again.

I know it's inconvenient that we point out your argument is illogical unto itself, but we're really only restating your own position and showing you how silly it is.

Infinity Ziona

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,796

#1050 - 2013-12-20 23:56:15 UTC | Edited by: Infinity Ziona

Khanh'rhh wrote:

Actually I work in gaming. Gaming pays out about 90% of profits however its possible to take 100% of everyones money and still pay out 90% since paid out includes money won but never paid. So no I'm no fool when it comes to gambling.

If the odds in casino's were as good as the odds on plexes I'd be filthy rich and at the casino everyday. Since I started plexing I went from being pretty poor isk wise running L4's in high to being able to plex an additional 7 accounts, fit my ships with all faction / deadspace loots.

I'm flying in hostile space in bling fit Machs, bling fit Ishtars, got a Rokh (L Dopa) blown up today in Venal worth 700 million, pod was worth 800 million. I'll have replaced both tomorrow or the next day running a couple of sites. Easy mode EvE.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)


Khanh'rhh Sparkle Motion. Likes received: 3,519	#1051 - 2013-12-21 00:02:41 UTC 1 But I already showed you my 5bil per hour highsec income which is more I still think that's the bigger problem. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Jered Hakaaros

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 69

#1052 - 2013-12-21 00:03:08 UTC

Ziona, it only pays because there are so few people doing it. I cant for the life of me understand why you would advertise this in such a manner, when all is fine as it is. Why do you care what all the others here are thinking? Null is very profitable right now if you know your stuff, and it will stay that way as long as there are as few people possible who do the same. Just let them do their L4s and be happy :)


Infinity Ziona Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic Likes received: 2,796	#1053 - 2013-12-21 00:03:44 UTC Khanh'rhh wrote: But I already showed you my 5bil per hour highsec income which is more I still think that's the bigger problem. Your 5 bil was nonsense though. Mine is real :) CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “* Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Infinity Ziona

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,796

#1054 - 2013-12-21 00:04:31 UTC

Jered Hakaaros wrote:

Because I have an agenda :)

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)


James Amril-Kesh Viziam Amarr Empire Likes received: 11,532	#1055 - 2013-12-21 00:09:57 UTC 2 "Hey guys I found an Estamel rat which dropped a modified invuln field that I sold for 18b on market. It took me 10 minutes to kill the rat. Clearly this means you can make over 100b/hour easy. You guys aren't even trying." Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Pinky Hops

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 512

#1056 - 2013-12-21 00:12:31 UTC

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

"Hey guys I found an Estamel rat which dropped a modified invuln field that I sold for 18b on market. It took me 10 minutes to kill the rat.
Clearly this means you can make over 100b/hour easy. You guys aren't even trying."

because there's no floor to the income, right.

we all know there is only two outcomes for farming in nullsec. you either find an este invuln or you don't. the only two possibilities in the eve universe.

Khanh'rhh

Sparkle Motion.

Likes received: 3,519

#1057 - 2013-12-21 00:13:18 UTC

Infinity Ziona wrote:

Khanh'rhh wrote:

But I already showed you my 5bil per hour highsec income which is more Question

I still think that's the bigger problem.

Your 5 bil was nonsense though. Mine is real :)

I applied the same logic you did:

- Took a sample of one
- Extrapolated
- Ignored market effects
- Came up with a big number

The reason mine is impossible is the same reason yours is impossible. Gagh, kinda sucks huh?

Khanh'rhh

Sparkle Motion.

Likes received: 3,519

#1058 - 2013-12-21 00:14:38 UTC

Pinky Hops wrote:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

The third is you don't go to nullsec, look up possible drops on the EvE wiki and then tell everyone you find these every time.

There's a lot of this completely pointless third option and we're here trying to work out why.

James Amril-Kesh

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 11,532

#1059 - 2013-12-21 00:16:32 UTC

Pinky Hops wrote:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Still taking OP's logic and applying it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Falin Whalen

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 907

#1060 - 2013-12-21 00:19:01 UTC

Pinky Hops wrote:

Benny Ohu wrote:

those stupid nullseccers don't realise that when one alliance's space is not enough to sustain their members, they should open up their space to blues so that five alliances' space won't be enough to sustain five alliances' members, which is a far better system

or perhaps the coalitions don't hold enough space yet

Well since a really good system, fully upgraded, can support about 10 people simultaneously (that is about 8 ratters and two newbie salvagers) and any system at or below -0.44 even if fully upgraded doesn't produce enough of the "good" anomalies so that the number of people that system can support is vastly reduced, I'd say that we've about already reached saturation. Why do you think the rent on systems that have bad trusec is so low? I'm just glad that someone can make a go of bad trusec systems, and come out ahead even with rent payments. Meanwhile in highsec a L4 mission agent can give out infinite missions for thousands of people every second til the server shuts down, and the mission runner can't be locked out of station or lose the space the agent is in ( unless he looses faction standing to the agent ) Yet the mission runner makes about 80-85% the income as a ratter in null who can lose it all.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka

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