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High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#961 - 2013-12-19 20:38:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Notorious Fellon wrote:

So nullsec PI isn't worth it anymore either? Did I miss a patch that nerfed nullsec PI?

Stop. Many of us know better than to believe any of that crap you are spewing.

We arnt talking about PI. PI is one of the very few things that are working right along with exploration and ice mining oddly enough.

PI is pretty nice, if you rent a system with PBLRD sov, you can use all the planets and set your own tax rates, why renting with us is practically a steal.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#962 - 2013-12-19 21:14:16 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Notorious Fellon wrote:

So nullsec PI isn't worth it anymore either? Did I miss a patch that nerfed nullsec PI?

Stop. Many of us know better than to believe any of that crap you are spewing.

We arnt talking about PI. PI is one of the very few things that are working right along with exploration and ice mining oddly enough.

PI is pretty nice, if you rent a system with PBLRD sov, you can use all the planets and set your own tax rates, why renting with us is practically a steal.

Yea someone is getting jobbed, but I dont think its goofswarm.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#963 - 2013-12-19 21:21:39 UTC  |  Edited by: E-2C Hawkeye
Jenn aSide wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Carmen Electra wrote:
i think Jenn is on the money with this one. Infinity, sounds like you have a pretty good thing going there, but please don't try to promote your method as a viable thing for "most" others to do. I have 3 accounts, not 10, so I won't be attempting your... thing... anytime soon.

In my experience, isk/hr is better in high sec. (Not necessarily more fun.) v0v


jenn is cherry picking certain nich LP conversions and exaggerating incursion income as well. its alot, but its not 120m/hr with a "kitchen sink fleet."


3 Hq sites in an hour, that's somehow hard. 115.5 mil is isk plus LP at standard conversion rate (1k isk/lp) I fly with TVP , ISN and Warp to me. of course ISN fleets make way more.

And yoiu can look at Dotlan and get their logs for Osmon before the announcement of the Sister's ships. That's not a niche. Neither is cosmos farming or the Thukker agents of the really nice things you can get out of some other "normal" LP stores (hello Allotek industries and Bank of Luminaire).

Or maybe it's all just a dream lol.

How much isk/hr are you making on incursions when the groups are being tools and killing the queen?

ZERO



This is true, which is why I meantion Sister's of EVE, Trust Partners, Cosmos farming, and used the example of the Bank of Luminare and Allotek There are plenty of others that can get you too or close to the magical 2k isk/lp markand have agents in 0.5/0.6 (max high sec LP gain) systems. The thread is about High Sec isk making.

Incursions being disruptable is it's one real saving grace. Missions are less disruptable.


The balance here is simple. Should you think hi-sec is more profit, then go do it. Should you think null is better...go do it......should you think low is better.....guess what? then go do it.

All these options are available to all in EvE.

Crying over who can make more isk is as stupid as moving from America to Iceland and then complaining because your not making enough money.

No one is stopping you from doing any of these. Like you and your forum troll buddies like to point out....its a sand box go dig your own hole and stop pizzing in mine.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#964 - 2013-12-19 21:25:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Pinky Hops wrote:
And this is why CFC lacks a Titan/Super fleet.

They control more sov than anybody, and what do they do with it? They go back to highsec to run missions because it's "more profitable."

"logic" indeed.

Keep crying about your lack of supers while you talk about the massive profits from highsec. This is delicious.

Yeah, gonna go [CITATION NEEDED] on the "we want supers" thing. We specifically don't want more of them. Supers are **** for everyone involved. Death2allsupercaps.

Also you might have heard of Omegafleet. It's an (expensive) thing that means we don't all have to quit the game because we bought space coffins, because Archon balls now have a counter that isn't space coffins.

We basically always have a better solution than our enemies, you may have noticed this because we keep winning and own half of everything.

Also [intel leak] we actually have a whole **** ton of supers[/intel leak] shhhh don't tell anyone. Basically more than any one of our enemies, but alas, not more than all our enemies combined (which is what's needed because supers are stupidly broken in every single way).

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#965 - 2013-12-19 21:53:15 UTC
I'm still getting a kick out of the OP basically making the argument that since they won millions playing the lottery, everyone could be millionaires by playing the lottery.


Then again, companies running lotteries wouldn't be making millions themselves if people didn't fall for this fallacy in real life :negative:
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#966 - 2013-12-19 22:00:59 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Notorious Fellon wrote:



So kind of you to hold all that space even though it offers less than hisec. I assume you have stopped sucking all the goo out of moons now?


Goo is still worth it just not at crazy levels.

We hold as much space as we do for more or less just one reason. To stop other people from holding it and getting a bridgehead they can use to attack our heartlands.



So nullsec PI isn't worth it anymore either? Did I miss a patch that nerfed nullsec PI?

Stop. Many of us know better than to believe any of that crap you are spewing.


it has to be carted further (time or JF fees from service) as null regional populations are too low to support a market for it, and there is the issue that nullsec alliances are perma wardecced and players may need to reserve a character out of alliance to haul in highsec, which means being a character short for nullsec PI.

A poco on an extract p1, process to p2 planet installed just for 1 character will take me 65 days to pay off, and I found the learning time to figure out PI and research the market to be several hours. ie if there are pocos there, or you have several characters/accounts it makes a multipler on the return for installing the pocos, and produce more hours per month of work and goods, then its better.

I built a 4 planet extract to P3 chain in my system as an experiment to understand PI economics, which leads me to understand observing fellow renters exactly which one is the successful PI player and why.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#967 - 2013-12-19 22:06:23 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
I'm still getting a kick out of the OP basically making the argument that since they won millions playing the lottery, everyone could be millionaires by playing the lottery.


Then again, companies running lotteries wouldn't be making millions themselves if people didn't fall for this fallacy in real life :negative:

:smith: indeed

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#968 - 2013-12-19 22:07:47 UTC
This is where we talk about lotteries getting rich, like

a certain good and honest contributor to the community

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#969 - 2013-12-19 22:19:54 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:



This is true, which is why I meantion Sister's of EVE, Trust Partners, Cosmos farming, and used the example of the Bank of Luminare and Allotek There are plenty of others that can get you too or close to the magical 2k isk/lp markand have agents in 0.5/0.6 (max high sec LP gain) systems. The thread is about High Sec isk making.

Incursions being disruptable is it's one real saving grace. Missions are less disruptable.


The balance here is simple. Should you think hi-sec is more profit, then go do it. Should you think null is better...go do it......should you think low is better.....guess what? then go do it.

All these options are available to all in EvE.

Crying over who can make more isk is as stupid as moving from America to Iceland and then complaining because your not making enough money.

No one is stopping you from doing any of these. Like you and your forum troll buddies like to point out....its a sand box go dig your own hole and stop pizzing in mine.[/quote]

Before I say anything, let me say, this is why we're always in an arguement, because in addition to being wrong about it you seem to get defensive about it to.

No to the reply. You see, I do all those things. i've lost 5 caracals in the last few days doing low sec lvl 4s i've been mission running in high sec since 2007 (and since 2008 I've been doing sister's missions, started doing them back when you could get combat missions out of the agent in Gicodel since I lived in the Dodixe/Vylade area). I run incursions with ISN, TVP and Warp To Me and I've done every type of null PVE there is to be had.

And as a PVE player (and a honest person....) I'm saying the balance is off. With the exception of Sisters of EVE , Cosmos farming and those bugged high sec lvl 5s, if you wanted null sec level isk, you HAD to go to null sec and this was right and proper because the game is supposed to follow a "higher risk = higher rewards" scheme.

Now it's all screwed up, Wormholes are the only area that work right (highest risk, highest rewards), but high sec incursions are super farmable, people have found ways to make super isk out of even non-pirate high sec lp stores and the military upgrade system that once made null sec an ok place to live got nerfed "in order to drive conflict" (it just drove us back to low and null sec with our isking alts). All that totally leaves aside the utter brokenness that is faction warfare.

I think CCP will get around to fixing some of it, well, as long as their not in total and utter denial the way a bunch of priviledged high sec players trying to defend the broken status quo are.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#970 - 2013-12-19 22:29:33 UTC
Bwaahahahaha.
Yea.... I love all the Nullbears trying to get high sec destroyed in here.
Every unbiased non propaganda analysis clearly shows Null Sec makes more absolute income than high sec per person.
You can blather on about risk all you want, but those that take the risk normally make significantly more.

And by continually trying to pretend high sec income is being buffed while null is being nerfed continually, you are loosing any support you might have.

Focus on the real issue. Density problems. Null does have a limit 'per system'. Though that limit only holds true if every system is at that limit. And Lvl 4 Agents have infinite density capability.

Both of these are problems, as is the current design of anomalies & missions (& even incursion sites really) which do not encourage a diverse fleet but simple F1 approaches to kill all the red crosses. With a single end condition. Rather than 6 simultaneous objectives that can all be achieved in different ways, giving a group a reason to work together, even if you aren't all in the same corp.
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#971 - 2013-12-19 22:35:27 UTC
What they want is not for hisec to be worth so much but that it cant support as many people at once, Incursions are limited by various factors, as null ratting/anoms but that one soe agent in osmon.
She can tell you to beat the hell out of whatever mission infinite times to an equally infinite number of people.

Which is odd

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#972 - 2013-12-19 22:43:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Gonna lower my effort ITT because y'all don't post well enough to deserve it.

Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Every unbiased non propaganda analysis

[CITATION NEEDED]

Quote:
And by continually trying to pretend high sec income is being buffed while null is being nerfed continually, you are loosing any support you might have

Alas poor soul, for I can cite examples. Highsec risk:reward has shifted in the following ways:

- CONCORD
- CONCORD buffs
- More CONCORD buffs
- Removal of insurance on CONCORD ganks
- L4's in highsec
- Criminal flagging changes
- Fleet loot changes
- Remote rep aggression changes / warnings
- EHP buffs to barges
- Incursions
- Loot theft flagging
- Suspect flagging in general

er... like half as many again but I think I give the picture. If you want to kill someone in highsec, it has gotten steadily harder and harder to achieve, and is happening less and less. That lowers the risk, whilst the rewards have done up in the same time, by a factor of nearly 2x for the average highseccer.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#973 - 2013-12-19 22:46:01 UTC
Goddamnit, I posted evidence and formed logical conclusions in a highsec thread, that'll never work.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#974 - 2013-12-19 23:05:43 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Gonna lower my effort ITT because y'all don't post well enough to deserve it.

Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Every unbiased non propaganda analysis

[CITATION NEEDED]

Quote:
And by continually trying to pretend high sec income is being buffed while null is being nerfed continually, you are loosing any support you might have

Alas poor soul, for I can cite examples. Highsec risk:reward has shifted in the following ways:

- CONCORD
- CONCORD buffs
- More CONCORD buffs
- Removal of insurance on CONCORD ganks
- L4's in highsec
- Criminal flagging changes
- Fleet loot changes
- Remote rep aggression changes / warnings
- EHP buffs to barges
- Incursions
- Loot theft flagging
- Suspect flagging in general

er... like half as many again but I think I give the picture. If you want to kill someone in highsec, it has gotten steadily harder and harder to achieve, and is happening less and less. That lowers the risk, whilst the rewards have done up in the same time, by a factor of nearly 2x for the average highseccer.

Man, CONCORD needs more buffs

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#975 - 2013-12-19 23:25:49 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Gonna lower my effort ITT because y'all don't post well enough to deserve it.

Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Every unbiased non propaganda analysis

[CITATION NEEDED]

Quote:
And by continually trying to pretend high sec income is being buffed while null is being nerfed continually, you are loosing any support you might have

Alas poor soul, for I can cite examples. Highsec risk:reward has shifted in the following ways:

- CONCORD
- CONCORD buffs
- More CONCORD buffs
- Removal of insurance on CONCORD ganks
- L4's in highsec
- Criminal flagging changes
- Fleet loot changes
- Remote rep aggression changes / warnings
- EHP buffs to barges
- Incursions
- Loot theft flagging
- Suspect flagging in general

er... like half as many again but I think I give the picture. If you want to kill someone in highsec, it has gotten steadily harder and harder to achieve, and is happening less and less. That lowers the risk, whilst the rewards have done up in the same time, by a factor of nearly 2x for the average highseccer.


also
pirate ships from highsec lp
mindlinks from highsec lp
upcoming pirate battleship on highsec lp.

all of which reduce scarcity of equivalent drops in null, (gila losing market battle to both ishtar and sisters cruiser) and increase scarcity of LP both specifically sisters LP and by moving people off navy LP to farm sisters LP, thus reducing navy LP on the market.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#976 - 2013-12-19 23:42:59 UTC
Wow, highsec seems like great fun, no wonder test went back to highsec

did they?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Good Posting
Doomheim
#977 - 2013-12-20 00:20:09 UTC
GRRRR HI SEC
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#978 - 2013-12-20 00:42:40 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Wow, highsec seems like great fun, no wonder test went back to highsec

did they?

Highsec isn't "fun", it is a grind fest. A grindfest, in almost complete safety, if your mission ship isn't blinged out with officer and faction gear.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#979 - 2013-12-20 02:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Almost complete safety in null sec too.

Before I started plexing I hadn't been to null since 2004, so I was pretty much a newb when it came to null. You can see where I have traveled plexing here, if you search the killboards you won't find a single kill on me in null:

Systems I've visited

This is my latest haul from null sec for those disputing I can't make 20 billion a month:

Loots

And yes I flew that into Jita, if you ever See Rasta in a blockade runner, pop him ;) gluck


Oh yeah I wanted to point out to Baltec and everyone else who seems to think they're unable to do the same thing. Why not make an alt and take that alt out and ninja plex? Its great intel gathering as well as profit making. Especially if you do it in your enemies territories.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#980 - 2013-12-20 03:05:58 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
I'm still getting a kick out of the OP basically making the argument that since they won millions playing the lottery, everyone could be millionaires by playing the lottery.


Then again, companies running lotteries wouldn't be making millions themselves if people didn't fall for this fallacy in real life :negative:

Not to mention that if fancy loot dropped with any regularity it wouldn't be worth nearly as much.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)