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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

First post First post First post
Author
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#3221 - 2013-12-13 09:08:14 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Why talk about WiS? Because it's better than don't talk about it.

Very true.

But talking about it without an idea of how to actually achieve it with given resources is a waste of ideas.

I see: you mean that we should do as the people who, for years, asked CCP by land, air and sea, to please-please-please implement player built stargates leading to unknown space so the big alliances had more toys to war about.

I recall perfectly the threadnaughts, the desperate pleas, the forum pressure, the CSM campaigning of all the people who has begged, suggested, convinced, forced, CCP to implement the Hallelujah Plan as the players envisioned it...


Although this is entirely off-topic as a reply to their post, it's still a good post in isolation. For that you get a like. As for ideas though, we are posting in a thread conceived of CCP having an idea of something worth achieving. So I think really, that 'not having ideas' isn't really a thing. There are plenty of ideas out there for valid gameplay. Some more simple or complex than others.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#3222 - 2013-12-13 20:43:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
I believe everyone here have seen the X rebirth walking in station part and the obvious flavs it had. Even one CQ room closed forever is more interactive and life than whole station in X rebirth. Lol

I dont write it because I am anti WIS or something, but you can figure it out how hard it is to get things right. Some NPC-s with random dialogue options, and copy paste interior everywhere is not enough. And that mean a lot of work from the art and sound department, also it needs gameplay, and in this thread they presented it, right in the beginning. Basically everything what they showed about WIS placed in game with decent quality would work, really not the way X rebirth was done.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#3223 - 2013-12-13 22:53:56 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
I believe everyone here have seen the X rebirth walking in station part and the obvious flavs it had. Even one CQ room closed forever is more interactive and life than whole station in X rebirth. Lol

I dont write it because I am anti WIS or something, but you can figure it out how hard it is to get things right. Some NPC-s with random dialogue options, and copy paste interior everywhere is not enough. And that mean a lot of work from the art and sound department, also it needs gameplay, and in this thread they presented it, right in the beginning. Basically everything what they showed about WIS placed in game with decent quality would work, really not the way X rebirth was done.


The point with X Rebirth, is that it is vastly improvable. Modders are a force to be reckoned at the X universe, and so we haven't seen the last of Rebirth's station content.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#3224 - 2013-12-13 23:11:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Problem is , do the modder community will try to improve on a game, that have everything to improve, not only WIS (it would need complete rebuild) but the actual spaceship gameplay, it really feels like a single player game, and not a good one in the means of story or sandbox. Often people say this is the step backward from the past versions of the game, and completely not empire building/trading friendly, but we will see what the community thinks of its potential.
Flamespar
WarRavens
#3225 - 2013-12-14 12:49:01 UTC
Ccp should do a competition to get players to design an upgraded CQ.
Nadia Barsrallah
Nerbles
#3226 - 2013-12-14 20:39:36 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
Ccp should do a competition to get players to design an upgraded CQ.



thats a great idea! the t3 design was great!
Thellorms Nor'Fein
Federal Bounty Services
#3227 - 2013-12-14 21:00:08 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
Ccp should do a competition to get players to design an upgraded CQ.


I agree completely!

I'm a year late getting to this post, and 100+ pages to get caught up? Yeouch! What I hope it says is "Dont worry, we havn't given up on WiS and Avatar gameplay, despite incessant whining from others." I for one realize that stepping out of our ships and exploring environments beyond just those in the vacuum of space or the captains quarters is a crucial MUCH NEEDED step in the future of this game. I would LOVE to see EVE Online become more than a game about just space ships, and become a story about seeing things in the universe through the eyes of your character (avatar). A sci-fi simulator huh? I love the sound of that!

Ahh, Jita... - http://i.imgur.com/UHGT4xc.jpg

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#3228 - 2013-12-15 22:19:59 UTC
Most of the dev replies in here imply or say 'eventually' and have been saying that for 2 years. 'Eventually' feels a hell of a lot like 'never' at the moment. It's about time something happened.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3229 - 2013-12-15 23:14:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyancat Audeles
Meanwhile CCP was staring drunk (I kid Smile) at their computers and not doing anything with WiS, Star Citizen comes along and does it for them.

Congratulations, CCP. Now I have to buy two games to do something you could have done.

Sorry if I sound a bit bitter, not necessarily intended... it's just that... so much potential... Sad
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#3230 - 2013-12-17 22:07:57 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
'Eventually' feels a hell of a lot like 'never' at the moment.


Well, same as for a "5 years alleluja plan" :)

Thellorms Nor'Fein
Federal Bounty Services
#3231 - 2013-12-17 22:29:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Thellorms Nor'Fein
Going to shamelessly link to some thoughts I had posted in the Features and Ideas Discussion forum, as it directly relates to Avatar gameplay and another possible future direction.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4013793#post4013793

Arduemont wrote:
Most of the dev replies in here imply or say 'eventually' and have been saying that for 2 years. 'Eventually' feels a hell of a lot like 'never' at the moment. It's about time something happened.


Ahh, yes. I agree completely. But I can't assume to understand what CCP is going through right now. I just read a couple days ago about another recent lay off, and regardless the reasons for it, that cannot be easy for CCP to go through right now. It also does not help the future development of the game at all as the team has to learn to do more with less people. Nevertheless, I believe in them. A lot of us here have been through a lot with CCP over the last decade, and, well... we're still here. There are those in CCP that still dare to dream. Don't give up hope. :)

Ahh, Jita... - http://i.imgur.com/UHGT4xc.jpg

Hemi DarkStar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3232 - 2013-12-19 12:53:54 UTC
How about a museum displaying the rich history of EVE? One that is only accessible in Systems/Stations like Jita, Amarr etc.

24 player max, and maybe a small minigame with questions about the lore with a small ISK reward. Main goal to educate the new players in a fun way and immerse them a bit.

Maybe some of the rooms can showcase all the ships were folk can spin them or something, lol.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#3233 - 2013-12-19 12:58:25 UTC
No offense intended, but what made you think that suggesting a weird space museum in a thread about dangerous, PvP and PvE filled Avatar content would be a good idea?

Who is going to want to wander around some random displays, when they could be exploring an abandoned hazardous station wreck for lost technological artifacts and resources? I'm sorry, but that's a terrible idea.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Hemi DarkStar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3234 - 2013-12-19 13:30:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Hemi DarkStar
We'll my base for this is that I had to dig trough various PDF documents to find out what the story is behind EVE. The PvE missions explain a little about the lore, but my guess is people just close these real fast just to get the mission started. Maybe a room with various interaction, showcasing all the expansions/trailers and backstory would educate the new players a bit more.

Just a thought of course.

Another idea I had was a "Hive" like CQ. Were when you fleet up inside CQ you connect the rooms in a "Hive" sorta way :

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Hive expamle
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

All the windows would show each others ships, and all members can walk from CQ to CQ. Maybe use the seet and table for simple minigames were you and friends lose your ISK.

I still prefer a window were fleet members can help you with your fitting or can suggest what skills to train.(like I suggested in the boardroom sketch) This so your group can optimise it's efforts.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#3235 - 2013-12-19 13:51:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
I would love CCP to encourage a modding community for new content, cloths, rooms, maybe even usable objects in the environment. Players with the capability to do that are almost always willing to do developers jobs for free given a little encouragement or incentive.

Just look at Skyrim. Skyrim was a fantastic single player game, but it was just that. A single player game with barely 100 hours game play in it (great for a single player game but doesn't compare to the many thousands of hours people spend on MMOs), which people played for thousands of hours each because of the modding community. The T3 competition had a HUGE affect and frankly they should do something where they need even less development time, such as a clothing creation competition. A dev blog explaining where to get some basic clothing models from in-game and a suggested format or modelling engine and players would be away. They would have literally thousands of new clothing options to choose from. People like Hemi here who put time into creating things (even if it is only with photoshop) can make a huge impact on a game given the opportunity.

Clothing, is of course just an example. We could really use some game-play, but asking a modding community for that could be complicated or dangerous.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Hemi DarkStar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3236 - 2013-12-19 14:13:32 UTC
Yeah, modding for MMO's is a tad tricky. I myself modded allot of Killing Floor. We made total conversions like replacing all the zombies with necromorphs, or Aliens. Adjusting HUD's, making plasma cutters to replace the 9mm etc etc. Even the iconic motion tracker and beeing able to play as Hicks/Hudson/Apone etc. etc.

If I could create clothing or robotic implants for EVE...oh my.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Monocle
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Hehe..
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#3237 - 2013-12-19 14:30:29 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
I would love CCP to encourage a modding community for new content, cloths, rooms, maybe even usable objects in the environment. Players with the capability to do that are almost always willing to do developers jobs for free given a little encouragement or incentive.

Just look at Skyrim. Skyrim was a fantastic single player game, but it was just that. A single player game with barely 100 hours game play in it (great for a single player game but doesn't compare to the many thousands of hours people spend on MMOs), which people played for thousands of hours each because of the modding community. The T3 competition had a HUGE affect and frankly they should do something where they need even less development time, such as a clothing creation competition. A dev blog explaining where to get some basic clothing models from in-game and a suggested format or modelling engine and players would be away. They would have literally thousands of new clothing options to choose from. People like Hemi here who put time into creating things (even if it is only with photoshop) can make a huge impact on a game given the opportunity.

Clothing, is of course just an example. We could really use some game-play, but asking a modding community for that could be complicated or dangerous.


That would be just one way in which a company that wasn't manically anal about their IP could expand it for free with huge impact and minimal investment beyond developing a basic set of tools and checking TTP prior to each release.

But we're talking about CCP, a company where adding decals to the ships means that you'll need a magnifying glass to actually see them on the ships at full zoom, and the concept of "animated ships" becomes a set of blinds closing down. There would be strokes, manic fits and arson if someone suggested CCP's artists to actually let *someone* touch their stuff, even if they were granted 100% no-questions control over 3rd party content.

You don't play with CCP's toys.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#3238 - 2013-12-29 14:51:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Heh, just look at what Hilmar said to Wired:

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-12/24/eve-valkyrie

Quote:
(...)

How would you describe CCP's goals?

Our goal is to make virtual reality more meaningful than real life. I think we're making good progress! Certainly something like a VR headset helps a lot with that. When we said this first in 2008 people just looked at me like, "Hilmar, that's weird -- don't you have a family and things like that?" Of course.

That's not what I mean about real life. But think about how poorly designed real life is. Acres of stores full of things we buy and just throw them away and consume and consume and consume and now we need a new thing because it's pink instead of yellow. We're throwing it all away and destroying the Earth and everything around us. If everyone were to live our Western consumption lifestyles we would need five planets. When you look at it we could do so much better. Putting people together through computers in massive immersive experiences seems so much more enjoyable than some of the stuff our reality is offering us.

(...)


Hilmar, you and I are on similar wavelengths. I too would rather use VR environments to perform social experiments than RL.

Now just tell me, in as few words as you can, why your game is all about anonymous machines destroying other anonymous machines, inmersed in a sea of spreadsheets, rather than about human beings doing human stuff... What?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Erin Crawford
#3239 - 2013-12-30 11:17:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Erin Crawford
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Heh, just look at what Hilmar said to Wired:

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-12/24/eve-valkyrie

Quote:
(...)

How would you describe CCP's goals?

Our goal is to make virtual reality more meaningful than real life. I think we're making good progress! Certainly something like a VR headset helps a lot with that. When we said this first in 2008 people just looked at me like, "Hilmar, that's weird -- don't you have a family and things like that?" Of course.

That's not what I mean about real life. But think about how poorly designed real life is. Acres of stores full of things we buy and just throw them away and consume and consume and consume and now we need a new thing because it's pink instead of yellow. We're throwing it all away and destroying the Earth and everything around us. If everyone were to live our Western consumption lifestyles we would need five planets. When you look at it we could do so much better. Putting people together through computers in massive immersive experiences seems so much more enjoyable than some of the stuff our reality is offering us.

(...)


Hilmar, you and I are on similar wavelengths. I too would rather use VR environments to perform social experiments than RL.

Now just tell me, in as few words as you can, why your game is all about anonymous machines destroying other anonymous machines, inmersed in a sea of spreadsheets, rather than about human beings doing human stuff... What?


drum roll *dudum-tisssh!* Good find!!!

Interesting indeed! It's just so sad that CCP can't pull up their socks, unterhosen, hosen et alii and do something about this; even in small iterations. Also, they better pull their socks up quickly as that big other game in development with all that avatar/wis content has come a long way in what is quite literally just one short little year and EvE is certainly starting to show its age in almost all aspects of the game: content, graphics, physics, effects, audio etc.

Still fun to play though... for now! Blink Can only hope it will stay that way! We will see if the space scape will shift in the near future or not.

Either way, one really important thing is sure: we players and payers will have even more space game options! Big smile

"Those who talk don’t know. Those who know don’t talk. "

Erin Crawford
#3240 - 2013-12-30 11:48:05 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:


Extra-Vehicular Activity, Wrecks and Exploration

There has been an idea kicking around CCP for a long time now about an ideal starting point for avatar gameplay… …The inspiration for this comes from a lot of different places, back to the original Aliens films, Event Horizon, the cleanup of Chernobyl, high-altitude mountaineering, games such as Space Hulk, Minecraft and Moonbase Alpha, to name just a few.


and soon to add to this list, RSI’s Star Citizen, who are doing it rather than kicking an idea around! Funny how that happened, eh? One year later, out of the blue…



Thellorms Nor'Fein wrote:
I'm a year late getting to this post, and 100+ pages to get caught up? Yeouch!


Same here, one year late and 160+ pages on! But, what’s even crazier is how far a new game in development has come in that same time. Crazy!
CCP Bayesian wrote:
There has been an idea kicking around CCP for a long time now about an ideal starting point for avatar gameplay.
Still kicking? Me wonders. Kick faster already! Blink

"Those who talk don’t know. Those who know don’t talk. "