EVE General Discussion

people thinking the whole "summer of rage" was because of Incarna and WiS should remain quiet when people are discussing things they know nothing about... the real reason entire corps hit the unsub button was the "golden ammo" pseudo leak.

as soon as that hit locals and alliance chats everywhere, no one threatened to unsub, they just did it. and it was that lack of warning and "omg im going to unsub" threads that sent CCP into panic mode, this wasn't a bunch of 13year olds threatening to unsub if they didn't get what they wanted, this was people that already said "**** it, im out", no farewell threads, no stuff giveaways, nothing, just a corp mail saying "sorry guys, im going back to minesweeper and solitaire".

the idea of killing the sandbox and introducing Aur for Standing, Aur for better ammo, and several other things along the same lines was the end of it for a lot of people.

it wasn't Wis, it was the Aur store. mainly the fact that they were breaking the promise of "only cosmetical items".

so no, Wis was just another niche feature that 60% of eve didn't care for, but the other 40% loved. just like when they finnaly get to do the fabled SoV revamp... guess what, most people live on high, whs or low... they don't care for SoV. still, everyone agrees that its necessary and would be nice to have, dynamic Sov means more Pew Pew, more Pew Pew, more life in the sandbox.

this is eve, we are used to having features that target some obscure section of the player base, and we are fine with it because we are not wowtards, we understand that in this game its all connected. and Wis is targeted to a section of the player base that loses ships, holds sov, carebears in high and Rps a pirate in low, they are everywhere, and more of them wouldn't hurt this game in the least bit.

I tend to agree with the idea that when you're debating with somebody it's not so much about convincing them to change their mind as that's unlikely to happen - the objective is to figure out where the root of the disagreement is.

If the subject in question where there is objectively a correct answer, such as "Are humans apes?" Then if two people disagree over the answer then there's no middle ground - at least one of those people is wrong. In those cases, you can either convince the person who's in the wrong of their incorrectness and resolve it or (vastly more likely) the person who's in the right gives up out of exhaustion, disgust and frustration.

If two people disagree over something that is more subjective, such as "would EVE Online be enriched by the introduction of avatar-based gameplay?" then there's no "right" or "wrong" involved. Just value judgements. and in such cases, you almost never get a case where one side talks the other round to their point of view.

So the value of it all lies in figuring out where the fundamental disagreement is, which helps make informed decisions and allows third parties (such as the devs) to try and strip out the bias and emotive talk and see to the root of the conflict.

We've identified a fundamental disagreement in this thread already: some people think that the core of EVE is spaceships, some others think that the core of EVE is the sandbox and that spaceships are the medium through which the sandbox reaches us.

Of course, people in the former group are objectively wrong.

That's true ^^

I think a big question folks need to ask themselves when discussing WiS is:

If CCP announced that they would never be releasing another update, that the current EVE right now (today) is how EVE is going to stay forever, would you leave or would you still play?

I'd still play. Because I have a **** ton of fun in the EVE of today.

If your answer is the same, you'd stay, then what's the problem with developing WiS??

If your answer is no, you'd leave, then it sounds like you don't much enjoy EVE as it is right now, you're not having fun and are only here for the pure chance that it might take a future development direction that you like.

I don't want to emote. I don't want to /dance. I don't want to "dress up" in nex clothes and show off.

Yeah, Prometheus wouldn't happen with EVE players because EVE players are actually smart, as opposed to the entire crew of Prometheus who were a pack of the worst dumbasses ever to grace the big screen.

not very EVE, no. I mean, rogue drones infesting the station could be cool, but you'd think that the stations would have the ability to deal with that kind of thing themselves, without having to rely on whatever capsuleers happen to be docked right now.

When will that change, exactly? I keep seeing it said, but they've been focusing on inspace things for ten years. It's NEVER going to be perfect. There's no such thing as perfect. There is only "good enough."

So when, in your view, will EVE have reached the point that they won't need to focus on inspace things at the expense of any other option? When will inspace have been sufficiently fleshed out that you think that the game will be ready for EVE in Stations?