These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#781 - 2013-11-19 03:21:38 UTC
Gustaf en Gravonere wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
bla4711 wrote:


Lol As i said ... the usual goon shitposter .... first it is impossible at all then it is impossible to dps and now it is impossible to support ...... and dickheads like you without the slightest clue call other poster liars ..... Lol


I am still saying it is impossible to do all of those things with a single t3.

What I just said is that there are not enough sites to support a hundred people in a region let alone the tens of thousands we have. If you actually read what I am saying then you wouldn't have made yourself look as daft as you just did.

But if you go back and read what the OP said, they apparently used battleship (no nullifier or cov ops cloak) and working in GSF space.

So, there are no stations and no POS to work from as a base, and IZ was wandering around in our space alone in a BS. Even when deployed in a war there are people left behind who would be very happy to hunt down a solo BS wandering around our space looking for sanctums.


that's exactly right. Once I actually started trying to plex down in null for some ISK, and I mean I actually did it, not just theorycrafted about it like the OP, I quickly realized it's basically impossible to do without a base of some kind. Then OP claims that he/she starts at hi sec and wormholes to null, regularly. First of all, OP must be the luckiest person alive, to constantly find WHs that lead to GSF space instead of to somewhere random. Second of all, what can happen when WHing into null to do stuff without a base, is that you'll be plexing and all of a sudden someone comes in the system, lights a cyno and a big war is going on or at least some kind of intense activity or gatecamping or fleet of gankers comes in the area. Then you are forced to log off and wait it out, much like OP said he/she often does. If you are forced to wait long enough, the WHs that you came in through will disappear, and you'll be stuck in null, with no base, no cloak and no chance to get out back to empire without dying.

What's surprising is that OP seems to be a very old, established character yet spewing such crap. After 2 months of playing this game everything he/she says is obviously BS to me. Maybe he/she has spent their entire career carebearing around. One month in null is enough to realize everything OP claims is total BS.

You do realise that Goonspace is half the map? Regardless of that theres a trick you can use to get a WH straight to the any region you like whenvever you like. Don't have to worry about randomness of WH at all.

Last night - Loot

I LOVE doing the impossible. Keep thinking its impossible.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#782 - 2013-11-19 03:24:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

I imagine of course, that taking it from the mouths of the people who actually live there is unacceptable to the OP.

Nonetheless, this is the truth. With the same number of ships and people that you would use to run a DED site, scout for you, and logistics, you can make more just picking the right highsec corp and running 4s.


It can be lucrative to run a plex team, but in a group that actually lives in the space (Like ours) it's generally faster easier and better money to rent out your plex running services. But there is an upper level cap to how many people can do that before the isk simply runs dry.

The best bang for my buck was one major expansion back, when I could rat with a Vindicator and run about 150M an hour, but this was also a hell of a lot more "Active" than most L4's that I've seen when it comes to how much work I had to do to make it go. This is largely broken now, and I'm back to about 60m/hour on average.

I'm not saying this is bad money; it isn't. It's just not great money once you factor in all the costs to the alliance to make it happen (Ratting taxes don't even begin to pay for the sov/sov upgrades from my understanding).

The most enjoyable isk I ever made was probably Gooncursions (In the early days of incursions it was always Goonswarm and TEST alliance running the lowsec incursions together) which when we were optimal made about 100m/h +LP.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#783 - 2013-11-19 03:25:46 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You do realise that Goonspace is half the map? Regardless of that theres a trick you can use to get a WH straight to the any region you like whenvever you like. Don't have to worry about randomness of WH at all.

Last night - Loot

I LOVE doing the impossible. Keep thinking its impossible.


There's a nullsec political reality that you aren't thinking about. And that's ratting rights.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#784 - 2013-11-19 03:28:22 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You do realise that Goonspace is half the map? Regardless of that theres a trick you can use to get a WH straight to the any region you like whenvever you like. Don't have to worry about randomness of WH at all.

Last night - Loot

I LOVE doing the impossible. Keep thinking its impossible.


There's a nullsec political reality that you aren't thinking about. And that's ratting rights.


She also would have done better to edit out the Photoshop tearing.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#785 - 2013-11-19 03:46:33 UTC
I remember my null sec days. If i wanted to run sites i could and make 500mill a night and that was only a few hours. or mine some of that lovely Arkanor. the thing is I was getting about 3 plex sites a weeks. Sansha was dropping their books and forgetting where they left the library cards were at. So i took them ran with friends we made mad isk.

The diffrence is in null sec you risk your invest on hot drops, ganks, blue whale killers, random roams. you could loose billions in a weeks.

Empire space you got to work your ass off compared to nullsec isk making sinks. everyone screams about how much empire makes and I know how it is done. Do you have 8 toons? You got ISBoxer? then your in luck. 8 toons = 640mill per hour running incursion Vanguards. or you can mine and make roughly 800mill per hour if you have null sec contacts who would love to buy your trit or other empire side mineral.

The balance is there. Only if CCP was willing to put an end to things like ISBoxer.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#786 - 2013-11-19 03:52:27 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You do realise that Goonspace is half the map? Regardless of that theres a trick you can use to get a WH straight to the any region you like whenvever you like. Don't have to worry about randomness of WH at all.

Last night - Loot

I LOVE doing the impossible. Keep thinking its impossible.


There's a nullsec political reality that you aren't thinking about. And that's ratting rights.


I'm no professional about it but there is also the "we didn't upgrade half the map" problem right?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#787 - 2013-11-19 04:00:53 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You do realise that Goonspace is half the map? Regardless of that theres a trick you can use to get a WH straight to the any region you like whenvever you like. Don't have to worry about randomness of WH at all.

Last night - Loot

I LOVE doing the impossible. Keep thinking its impossible.


There's a nullsec political reality that you aren't thinking about. And that's ratting rights.


I'm no professional about it but there is also the "we didn't upgrade half the map" problem right?

And you're forced to only run plexes in your own space?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#788 - 2013-11-19 04:16:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Frostys Virpio wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You do realise that Goonspace is half the map? Regardless of that theres a trick you can use to get a WH straight to the any region you like whenvever you like. Don't have to worry about randomness of WH at all.

Last night - Loot

I LOVE doing the impossible. Keep thinking its impossible.


There's a nullsec political reality that you aren't thinking about. And that's ratting rights.


I'm no professional about it but there is also the "we didn't upgrade half the map" problem right?


You have to rat in the system to have entrapment and pirate detector arrays to work. People don't rat in -0.0 to -0.2 unless they are a renter like me, and the only way you'll get a renter to do that is to cede them the signatures. Note that nearly half of sov null is crap space like that, and some of the 120 or so top -0.8 to -1.0 type systems are in NPC null and can't be upgraded. Given how many corps are in the CFC, and how many top ratting systems they hold, they can probably can't even dole out 1 per corp.

One particular reason for not ratting -0.0 to -0.2 is that anoms and belts almost never spawn basic commanders.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#789 - 2013-11-19 04:27:37 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You do realise that Goonspace is half the map? Regardless of that theres a trick you can use to get a WH straight to the any region you like whenvever you like. Don't have to worry about randomness of WH at all.

Last night - Loot

I LOVE doing the impossible. Keep thinking its impossible.


There's a nullsec political reality that you aren't thinking about. And that's ratting rights.


I'm no professional about it but there is also the "we didn't upgrade half the map" problem right?

And you're forced to only run plexes in your own space?


Yep. I mean, idk about you, but if I were in RUS, PL or N3, I'd have every corp in GSF watchlisted (hell, even this toon has Bat Country and Ministry of Love watchlisted) on one or more of my spy/recon toons. Good luck getting enough time to run a 10/10 while dodging hotdroppers lusting for a goon killmail.

They deal with situations and circumstances that day trippers won't understand. Hence, the whole "nullsec politics" statement.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#790 - 2013-11-19 04:32:39 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

I imagine of course, that taking it from the mouths of the people who actually live there is unacceptable to the OP.

Nonetheless, this is the truth. With the same number of ships and people that you would use to run a DED site, scout for you, and logistics, you can make more just picking the right highsec corp and running 4s.


It can be lucrative to run a plex team, but in a group that actually lives in the space (Like ours) it's generally faster easier and better money to rent out your plex running services. But there is an upper level cap to how many people can do that before the isk simply runs dry.

The best bang for my buck was one major expansion back, when I could rat with a Vindicator and run about 150M an hour, but this was also a hell of a lot more "Active" than most L4's that I've seen when it comes to how much work I had to do to make it go. This is largely broken now, and I'm back to about 60m/hour on average.

I'm not saying this is bad money; it isn't. It's just not great money once you factor in all the costs to the alliance to make it happen (Ratting taxes don't even begin to pay for the sov/sov upgrades from my understanding).

The most enjoyable isk I ever made was probably Gooncursions (In the early days of incursions it was always Goonswarm and TEST alliance running the lowsec incursions together) which when we were optimal made about 100m/h +LP.

crash all the guristas plex loot tia

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#791 - 2013-11-19 04:32:46 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You do realise that Goonspace is half the map? Regardless of that theres a trick you can use to get a WH straight to the any region you like whenvever you like. Don't have to worry about randomness of WH at all.

Last night - Loot

I LOVE doing the impossible. Keep thinking its impossible.


There's a nullsec political reality that you aren't thinking about. And that's ratting rights.


I'm no professional about it but there is also the "we didn't upgrade half the map" problem right?

And you're forced to only run plexes in your own space?


Yep. I mean, idk about you, but if I were in RUS, PL or N3, I'd have every corp in GSF watchlisted (hell, even this toon has Bat Country and Ministry of Love watchlisted) on one or more of my spy/recon toons. Good luck getting enough time to run a 10/10 while dodging hotdroppers lusting for a goon killmail.

They deal with situations and circumstances that day trippers won't understand. Hence, the whole "nullsec politics" statement.

I don't day trip I'm permanently out there at the moment. Very rarely do people camp me and if they do I go off on my alt and do their relic sites instead. Still make pretty good isk and they sit there doing nothing for hours.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#792 - 2013-11-19 04:35:11 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You do realise that Goonspace is half the map? Regardless of that theres a trick you can use to get a WH straight to the any region you like whenvever you like. Don't have to worry about randomness of WH at all.

Last night - Loot

I LOVE doing the impossible. Keep thinking its impossible.


There's a nullsec political reality that you aren't thinking about. And that's ratting rights.


I'm no professional about it but there is also the "we didn't upgrade half the map" problem right?

And you're forced to only run plexes in your own space?


Yep. I mean, idk about you, but if I were in RUS, PL or N3, I'd have every corp in GSF watchlisted (hell, even this toon has Bat Country and Ministry of Love watchlisted) on one or more of my spy/recon toons. Good luck getting enough time to run a 10/10 while dodging hotdroppers lusting for a goon killmail.

They deal with situations and circumstances that day trippers won't understand. Hence, the whole "nullsec politics" statement.


So it's "relatively easyer" for a non affiliated toon? There would be more effort put into catching an affiliated toon than a non affiliated one?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#793 - 2013-11-19 04:39:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Quote:
So it's "relatively easyer" for a non affiliated toon? There would be more effort put into catching an affiliated toon than a non affiliated one?


From my experience? Yes. Especially against GSF. There's a lot of butthurt out there that can cause people to tunnel vision on certain groups. I, for example, will go well out of my way to screw with Nulli. They and I have a history.

But not so much "more effort" as it would be more attention. Like or hate them, GSF is visibility personified.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#794 - 2013-11-19 04:50:44 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
So it's "relatively easyer" for a non affiliated toon? There would be more effort put into catching an affiliated toon than a non affiliated one?


From my experience? Yes. Especially against GSF. There's a lot of butthurt out there that can cause people to tunnel vision on certain groups. I, for example, will go well out of my way to screw with Nulli. They and I have a history.

But not so much "more effort" as it would be more attention. Like or hate them, GSF is visibility personified.

And they can't make a plexing alt that's not affiliated right? If you go to Nifflung in Metro, there's a direct WH from high to 0.0 into a dead end system which has a Blood 10/10 Naval Shipyard. Can't solo that one :)

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#795 - 2013-11-19 04:54:05 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
So it's "relatively easyer" for a non affiliated toon? There would be more effort put into catching an affiliated toon than a non affiliated one?


From my experience? Yes. Especially against GSF. There's a lot of butthurt out there that can cause people to tunnel vision on certain groups. I, for example, will go well out of my way to screw with Nulli. They and I have a history.

But not so much "more effort" as it would be more attention. Like or hate them, GSF is visibility personified.

And they can't make a plexing alt that's not affiliated right? If you go to Nifflung in Metro, there's a direct WH from high to 0.0 into a dead end system which has a Blood 10/10 Naval Shipyard. Can't solo that one :)


The ones I know run L4s or incursions in highsec instead, because it's better money and it's impossible to die if you are awake.

Near parity in income, near total lack of risk, and more easily available routes to sell rewards add up to a pretty big incentive.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#796 - 2013-11-19 05:53:07 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
So it's "relatively easyer" for a non affiliated toon? There would be more effort put into catching an affiliated toon than a non affiliated one?


From my experience? Yes. Especially against GSF. There's a lot of butthurt out there that can cause people to tunnel vision on certain groups. I, for example, will go well out of my way to screw with Nulli. They and I have a history.

But not so much "more effort" as it would be more attention. Like or hate them, GSF is visibility personified.

And they can't make a plexing alt that's not affiliated right? If you go to Nifflung in Metro, there's a direct WH from high to 0.0 into a dead end system which has a Blood 10/10 Naval Shipyard. Can't solo that one :)


The ones I know run L4s or incursions in highsec instead, because it's better money and it's impossible to die if you are awake.

Near parity in income, near total lack of risk, and more easily available routes to sell rewards add up to a pretty big incentive.

Nowhere near parity in income. Its boring. Its not risky. There's no way I could plex 9 accounts running missions in highsec, even with multiple alts. Well unless I played all day which is not going to happen.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#797 - 2013-11-19 05:57:50 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Nowhere near parity in income. Its boring. Its not risky. There's no way I could plex 9 accounts running missions in highsec, even with multiple alts. Well unless I played all day which is not going to happen.


Almost nearly parity of income. When the safety is taken into account (plus lower startup costs), alongside the overall lack of available income for a significant number of players (whereas missions are unlimited), there is no contest.

Which is why so very many of them make money in highsec. I mean, either you are just smarter than everyone else in the entire game, or maybe it's possible that they do have it figured out. I certainly don't have a high enough opinion of you to make that leap.

I recently bought a Navpoc, and in 4 days I plexed 3 of my accounts, with enough cash to spare to fit up whatever I feel like for some fun once the expac hits. And that was without really consulting EVE Survival or really remembering jack about missioning. Yeah, highsec is overpowered.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#798 - 2013-11-19 05:59:32 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Last night - Loot

I LOVE doing the impossible. Keep thinking its impossible.

That's not actually a Proteus, is it? It says Machariel right at the top.

Oh god.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#799 - 2013-11-19 06:01:38 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Last night - Loot

I LOVE doing the impossible. Keep thinking its impossible.

That's not actually a Proteus, is it? It says Machariel right at the top.

... opps?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#800 - 2013-11-19 06:36:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Last night - Loot

I LOVE doing the impossible. Keep thinking its impossible.

That's not actually a Proteus, is it? It says Machariel right at the top.

Nah I usually use an Ishtar for Guristas now. Proteus is good solo pvp ship, good passive PVE but lacks DPS, Ishtar beats it hands down. Doing Bloods for extra challenge so Mach is better. Aligns nice and fast.

Alavaria Fera wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Last night - Loot

I LOVE doing the impossible. Keep thinking its impossible.

That's not actually a Proteus, is it? It says Machariel right at the top.

... opps?

I don't fly what I can't afford to lose and I can afford to lose a Mach. Not that I've lost any ship to you guys in the last 3 months I've been stealing ur sigs.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)