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High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality

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bla4711
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#761 - 2013-11-18 18:37:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
bla4711 wrote:


Lol As i said ... the usual goon shitposter .... first it is impossible at all then it is impossible to dps and now it is impossible to support ...... and dickheads like you without the slightest clue call other poster liars ..... Lol


I am still saying it is impossible to do all of those things with a single t3.

What I just said is that there are not enough sites to support a hundred people in a region let alone the tens of thousands we have. If you actually read what I am saying then you wouldn't have made yourself look as daft as you just did.

But if you go back and read what the OP said, they apparently used battleship (no nullifier or cov ops cloak) and working in GSF space.

So, there are no stations and no POS to work from as a base, and IZ was wandering around in our space alone in a BS. Even when deployed in a war there are people left behind who would be very happy to hunt down a solo BS wandering around our space looking for sanctums.


Wooohooooooo, now the little muck tries to change the subject .... "but, but, but,but .... i meant battleships, no t3 cruisers ...." lying as soon as you press "Post" but tell other "made yourself look as daft as you just did.".

Very entertaining .... Lol
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#762 - 2013-11-18 18:40:21 UTC
bla4711 wrote:


Wooohooooooo, now the little muck tries to change the subject .... "but, but, but,but .... i meant battleships, no t3 cruisers ...." lying as soon as you press "Post" but tell other "made yourself look as daft as you just did.".

Very entertaining .... Lol


Quote:
I am still saying it is impossible to do all of those things with a single t3.



Literally the first sentence.
Prince Kobol
#763 - 2013-11-18 18:44:25 UTC
bla4711 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Tauranon wrote:


Proteus can do the maze covops/nullified - the subs let you exchange the turret slot you need for probe launcher or cloak for a dronebay which preserves the dps. I would find it painful because med blasters are painful, and there would always be a worry that the first spawn has too many dire pithum mortifiers whilst flying a very pricey ship, but the thing would probably escape anyway as it has a 100m3 dronebay to chaff with.

salvager is a strawman, nothing to salvage in the maze that I'm aware of.

In any case reinvig is easy covops nullified and its worth more per run than the maze.

The main issue is in fact that you'd probably have to run ammo in a tokyo express fit to the nearest npc station to the area you wanted to work.


Thats the point I was making. A t3 can do 10/10s just not with all of that stuff.

Biggest issue is that you cannot support even a hundred people on these things in a region and we have tens of thousands to support.


Lol As i said ... the usual goon shitposter .... first it is impossible at all then it is impossible to dps and now it is impossible to support ...... and dickheads like you without the slightest clue call other poster liars ..... Lol


lmao..

I love it when people get called out and and up looking stupid that they have to resort to insults.

I am not a goon and most likely never will be, butwhen it comes to the mechanics of null sec, pretty damn sure Baltec1 knows more then most.

Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#764 - 2013-11-18 18:53:41 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Tauranon wrote:


Proteus can do the maze covops/nullified - the subs let you exchange the turret slot you need for probe launcher or cloak for a dronebay which preserves the dps. I would find it painful because med blasters are painful, and there would always be a worry that the first spawn has too many dire pithum mortifiers whilst flying a very pricey ship, but the thing would probably escape anyway as it has a 100m3 dronebay to chaff with.

salvager is a strawman, nothing to salvage in the maze that I'm aware of.

In any case reinvig is easy covops nullified and its worth more per run than the maze.

The main issue is in fact that you'd probably have to run ammo in a tokyo express fit to the nearest npc station to the area you wanted to work.


Thats the point I was making. A t3 can do 10/10s just not with all of that stuff.

Biggest issue is that you cannot support even a hundred people on these things in a region and we have tens of thousands to support.


I agree, I made that point earlier in the thread enough times. I could actually consume an entire constellations spawns myself if I hadn't agreed to not do that - I know what the per system rate of spawning of sigs is. The actual spawn rate would rise, but it would also dump the item prices. For the most part nullsec exploration produces battleship items, that people don't want anywhere near as much as they want the cruiser items.

Also being able to do the Maze is not being able to do all of the 10/10s by a long shot, and its a horribly expensive fit to fly around in null in, and the fit and strategy can be largely obsoleted by a simple increase in residents.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#765 - 2013-11-18 21:15:14 UTC
bla4711 wrote:

Lol As i said ... the usual goon shitposter .... first it is impossible at all then it is impossible to dps and now it is impossible to support ...... and dickheads like you without the slightest clue call other poster liars ..... Lol


2007 called, apparently they were missing a post from CAOD and want it back.
Gustaf en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#766 - 2013-11-18 21:23:43 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
bla4711 wrote:


Lol As i said ... the usual goon shitposter .... first it is impossible at all then it is impossible to dps and now it is impossible to support ...... and dickheads like you without the slightest clue call other poster liars ..... Lol


I am still saying it is impossible to do all of those things with a single t3.

What I just said is that there are not enough sites to support a hundred people in a region let alone the tens of thousands we have. If you actually read what I am saying then you wouldn't have made yourself look as daft as you just did.

But if you go back and read what the OP said, they apparently used battleship (no nullifier or cov ops cloak) and working in GSF space.

So, there are no stations and no POS to work from as a base, and IZ was wandering around in our space alone in a BS. Even when deployed in a war there are people left behind who would be very happy to hunt down a solo BS wandering around our space looking for sanctums.


that's exactly right. Once I actually started trying to plex down in null for some ISK, and I mean I actually did it, not just theorycrafted about it like the OP, I quickly realized it's basically impossible to do without a base of some kind. Then OP claims that he/she starts at hi sec and wormholes to null, regularly. First of all, OP must be the luckiest person alive, to constantly find WHs that lead to GSF space instead of to somewhere random. Second of all, what can happen when WHing into null to do stuff without a base, is that you'll be plexing and all of a sudden someone comes in the system, lights a cyno and a big war is going on or at least some kind of intense activity or gatecamping or fleet of gankers comes in the area. Then you are forced to log off and wait it out, much like OP said he/she often does. If you are forced to wait long enough, the WHs that you came in through will disappear, and you'll be stuck in null, with no base, no cloak and no chance to get out back to empire without dying.

What's surprising is that OP seems to be a very old, established character yet spewing such crap. After 2 months of playing this game everything he/she says is obviously BS to me. Maybe he/she has spent their entire career carebearing around. One month in null is enough to realize everything OP claims is total BS.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#767 - 2013-11-18 21:39:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Gustaf, not only does ZIona have 3 accounts, but I could do the whole ninja thing with 1 account. I'd use NPC space to break up my intel channel profile, but its no longer a requirement to dock since rubicon has a yurt.

you can store ammo and cargo expanders in anchorable cans, which you can place in out-of-mind-out-of-sight places.

ie if I took 3 runs to Tokyo express myself some ammo with a cargo fit proteus, I would be good for 20+ encounters before I had to return.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#768 - 2013-11-18 21:45:57 UTC
Quote:
What's surprising is that OP seems to be a very old, established character yet spewing such crap. After 2 months of playing this game everything he/she says is obviously BS to me. Maybe he/she has spent their entire career carebearing around. One month in null is enough to realize everything OP claims is total BS.


For a while now, I've suspected a character sale and a lot of PLEX. Mostly because whenever IZ references "the old days", it is almost verbatim what one could easily google, while being abjectly wrong about everything else.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Trainwreck McGee
Doomheim
#769 - 2013-11-18 21:57:07 UTC
Cant we just all agree that low sec is bullshit

CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#770 - 2013-11-18 22:03:28 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
What's surprising is that OP seems to be a very old, established character yet spewing such crap. After 2 months of playing this game everything he/she says is obviously BS to me. Maybe he/she has spent their entire career carebearing around. One month in null is enough to realize everything OP claims is total BS.


For a while now, I've suspected a character sale and a lot of PLEX. Mostly because whenever IZ references "the old days", it is almost verbatim what one could easily google, while being abjectly wrong about everything else.

IIRC the OP claims to have played for a while, then left for some years, and has since come back. Maybe Infinity should leave again, Eve doesn't appear to be the right game for them.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Gustaf en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#771 - 2013-11-18 22:53:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Gustaf en Gravonere
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
What's surprising is that OP seems to be a very old, established character yet spewing such crap. After 2 months of playing this game everything he/she says is obviously BS to me. Maybe he/she has spent their entire career carebearing around. One month in null is enough to realize everything OP claims is total BS.


For a while now, I've suspected a character sale and a lot of PLEX. Mostly because whenever IZ references "the old days", it is almost verbatim what one could easily google, while being abjectly wrong about everything else.

IIRC the OP claims to have played for a while, then left for some years, and has since come back. Maybe Infinity should leave again, Eve doesn't appear to be the right game for them.



+1

and as far as the cans crap to store ammo etc, the whole ordeal sounds like a whole lot of work and high risk for paltry earnings if you really think about it. I mean you're making what, $3 an hour in real world terms? With that level of industriousness, the scanning, wormholing, cans, refitting, hiding... maybe could just have a real job and cover your ISK requirements that way? Grinding out plexes day in day out sounds like fun only if I lived in China and $20 bought my family food for a month. Any other way you slice it it makes playing a game not a game, and relegates you to below minimum wage as far s productivity vs time spent. At least hi sec missioning you can more or less AFK to top up your isk and pay that day's PVP losses, and it doesn't feel so much like "work", requiring constant attention to Local, fleeing, high risk to constantly lose your shiny ship, etc. I've heard of people running 4 accounts with 3 droneboats and a primary, assigning all drones to primary, 25 minutes Angel Extravaganza enjoy.
Slave 775
Ministry of Punishment
#772 - 2013-11-18 23:20:37 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
What's surprising is that OP seems to be a very old, established character yet spewing such crap. After 2 months of playing this game everything he/she says is obviously BS to me. Maybe he/she has spent their entire career carebearing around. One month in null is enough to realize everything OP claims is total BS.


For a while now, I've suspected a character sale and a lot of PLEX. Mostly because whenever IZ references "the old days", it is almost verbatim what one could easily google, while being abjectly wrong about everything else.

IIRC the OP claims to have played for a while, then left for some years, and has since come back. Maybe Infinity should leave again, Eve doesn't appear to be the right game for them.


Would be better if Ziona leaves again, safer for the Carebears nullsec or highsec.
Last time he was around i didnt end well, and CCP had to step in and stop us because the whine of the losers was epic.
I was there and judgeing from his posts he is still the same person.
Garandras
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#773 - 2013-11-18 23:27:31 UTC
I'm doing a tl:dr here..

but with the topic.. Null sec people generally have a better income.. but get ships blown up which uses up their ernings.
While high secers generally have little to no risk with their income
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#774 - 2013-11-18 23:28:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Gustaf en Gravonere wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
What's surprising is that OP seems to be a very old, established character yet spewing such crap. After 2 months of playing this game everything he/she says is obviously BS to me. Maybe he/she has spent their entire career carebearing around. One month in null is enough to realize everything OP claims is total BS.


For a while now, I've suspected a character sale and a lot of PLEX. Mostly because whenever IZ references "the old days", it is almost verbatim what one could easily google, while being abjectly wrong about everything else.

IIRC the OP claims to have played for a while, then left for some years, and has since come back. Maybe Infinity should leave again, Eve doesn't appear to be the right game for them.



+1

and as far as the cans crap to store ammo etc, the whole ordeal sounds like a whole lot of work and high risk for paltry earnings if you really think about it. I mean you're making what, $3 an hour in real world terms? With that level of industriousness, the scanning, wormholing, cans, refitting, hiding... maybe could just have a real job and cover your ISK requirements that way? Grinding out plexes day in day out sounds like fun only if I lived in China and $20 bought my family food for a month. Any other way you slice it it makes playing a game not a game, and relegates you to below minimum wage as far s productivity vs time spent. At least hi sec missioning you can more or less AFK to top up your isk and pay that day's PVP losses, and it doesn't feel so much like "work", requiring constant attention to Local, fleeing, high risk to constantly lose your shiny ship, etc. I've heard of people running 4 accounts with 3 droneboats and a primary, assigning all drones to primary, 25 minutes Angel Extravaganza enjoy.


I would happily take 1 month to find 20 gurista null deds in places where nobody was logged on to interrupt me if I wasn't already renting a system and doing it the easy way with other locals blue to me. (ie I get more things to do than just sneaking around as the result of being a resident). The reason I'd be happy to do that, is because its 4 billion isk expectation, and the expectation should be reasonably evened out by sampling 20 deds. As a renter I already have to run the loot back anyway, and I already do this semi frequently to avoid having too much value in 1 run.

Granted people trying to do it from highsec as their sole piloting background will probably screw up and lose their ship, but its certainly not an impossible task. The limit is as Baltec identifies - there is a finite number of people that can do this, just like there is for every other item or isk faucet in null other than mining, and this time the finite number of people is people per region in snall double digits over the whole day (ie a couple at a time in a region), as one system has nowhere near enough spawns to keep someone busy, and you have to compete with residents.
Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#775 - 2013-11-18 23:52:04 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
There is always a lot of talk on the forums from the null sec cartel crowd about the profitability of high sec mission running, especially in comparison to null sec.

There are often calls to nerf nerf nerf missions in high sec and buff null sec to encourage people to move out of high sec.

About a month ago somebody ask me to test out my theory that null sec income is already vastly superior to high sec, which I believed to be true, based on my observations of null seccers running sanctums in complete safety in deep null.

So I took it upon myself to grab a couple of battleships, sneak them through a wormhole and run some sanctums myself in Goonsec.

I made around 80 million isk per hour. However I suspected that I could do quite a lot better so I did a bit of research and fitted out a passive Proteus and run some combat sites.

I made between 100 and 500 million an hour depending on the drops but the going was quite slow and I had a lot of sites stolen before completion since I'm plexing in hostile space. So I did some more research and discovered that a properly fit Ishtar can run virtually any serpentis / guristas null site.

Yesterday I made 1 billion isk in 45 minutes running The Maze, a few minutes before that I ran a Guristas Military Operations Complex and made an additional 500 million or so. Apart from the modules I looted 2 faction BS BPC's worth 600 million. I think in total I made 2 billion on both sites. About 2 hours worth of combat sites.

I can easily make a billion isk per day running between 2 and 5 sites. Sure some don't drop anything, but the majority do. The Guristas Military Operations site has 3 guaranteed (1 Hac, 2 BS) dread guristas spawns plus a 100 million in OE. The Maze is guaranteed to drop 160 mill OE and will usually drop Pith X-Type loot worth hundreds of millions.

The most common sites can be run in minutes, with a good chance at a DG battleship or an escalation to a DG BS.

I will never waste my time running L4 missions, or even L5 missions when even as a ninja plexer, who needs to cloak up for hours sometimes when Goons come into system with their silly probes, can make a billion or more a day.

Can you imagine how much alliance peeps are making having stations, fitting, friends and complete safety that I don't have the luxury of having.

Given that, what is this rubbish about L4's and their amazing profitablity??? Curious minds would like to know.



I got a covert ops tengu to risk, if you want a buddy to back you up.

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#776 - 2013-11-19 01:32:05 UTC
Dread Guristas invul in a high sec anomaly today. It's all borked up. Please continue to fight over this.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#777 - 2013-11-19 02:40:44 UTC
Really want to get more players in null ?

Find a way to have nullsec starter schools available as alternatives choices to the 12 current highsec ones.

Yeah there are practical issues with sticking day old characters straight into null but those issues can be worked around with a little effort.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#778 - 2013-11-19 02:50:17 UTC
Fair bit of luck there, depending on the time of day you can wander through deklein trying to scan down a 6/10 8/10 10/10 and find absolutely nothing. At one point I had an eveguy (Since sold) that had near perfect scanning skills and generally whenever I did get a plex I'd find someone else inside already running it. We actually had a guy do the math at one point and running an Ishtar with 20m ticks was actually better isk than running complexes.

Not to mention that if you want to make actually decent isk per hour without sharing it out you have to multibox the 10/10's which is frankly ridiculous. Fold this into the fact that new players when joining a space empire are generally encouraged to train the ships which defend those empires first and foremost and you have a large(ish) playerbase of generally low to middling SP characters who can do fine in a ratting site, but would get their asses bitten off by the "Big money plex's" that you talk about.

We won't even get into all of the upgrades that have to go into any system in order to turn it into a moneymaker (Hint: We dump a lot of isk into sov upgrades just to allow a group of our size to rat without bumping into eachothers ships every five seconds... and it still happens).
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#779 - 2013-11-19 03:05:34 UTC
Null, potential of most gain, possible constant threat and fights, check works as intended
Low, potential of good gain, most likely constant threat and fights, check works as intended
High, deasent steady income through boring grind, mind the sneaky ganker, and dont paint your ship to fat o a target and youll be fine, and if you isent well, **** happens in eve, only thing id like to see is level 1s and 2s bosted so new players can afford ships faster with all infaltion !, check works as intended

Now go prepare to burn stuffies in high, tomorrow will be funny !
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#780 - 2013-11-19 03:16:16 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Fair bit of luck there, depending on the time of day you can wander through deklein trying to scan down a 6/10 8/10 10/10 and find absolutely nothing. At one point I had an eveguy (Since sold) that had near perfect scanning skills and generally whenever I did get a plex I'd find someone else inside already running it. We actually had a guy do the math at one point and running an Ishtar with 20m ticks was actually better isk than running complexes.

Not to mention that if you want to make actually decent isk per hour without sharing it out you have to multibox the 10/10's which is frankly ridiculous. Fold this into the fact that new players when joining a space empire are generally encouraged to train the ships which defend those empires first and foremost and you have a large(ish) playerbase of generally low to middling SP characters who can do fine in a ratting site, but would get their asses bitten off by the "Big money plex's" that you talk about.

We won't even get into all of the upgrades that have to go into any system in order to turn it into a moneymaker (Hint: We dump a lot of isk into sov upgrades just to allow a group of our size to rat without bumping into eachothers ships every five seconds... and it still happens).


I imagine of course, that taking it from the mouths of the people who actually live there is unacceptable to the OP.

Nonetheless, this is the truth. With the same number of ships and people that you would use to run a DED site, scout for you, and logistics, you can make more just picking the right highsec corp and running 4s.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.