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Can we do something about the idiots in highsec already CCP?

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Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#501 - 2013-11-10 10:22:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


my point is that unless you've been recently blobbed by a fleet of mackaniaws then it's practically a nonissue.

though i know barges get used as bait ships a lot as the eve community just can't help themselves!



The issue isnt these ships vs others, its the barges vs themselves.

The mack and retriever simply out class the other 4 barges.


yeah well they took the +2 warp core strength off the skiff. if it were the ventures big brother then it would make sense. also it could probably use a bigger drone bay/more bandwidth and it could be useful as a low/null vessel.

other than that they seem fine. most people mine solo, i'd imagine, so the mack/retty is the obvious choice.

forums.  serious business.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#502 - 2013-11-10 12:21:21 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


my point is that unless you've been recently blobbed by a fleet of mackaniaws then it's practically a nonissue.

though i know barges get used as bait ships a lot as the eve community just can't help themselves!



The issue isnt these ships vs others, its the barges vs themselves.

The mack and retriever simply out class the other 4 barges.


yeah well they took the +2 warp core strength off the skiff. if it were the ventures big brother then it would make sense. also it could probably use a bigger drone bay/more bandwidth and it could be useful as a low/null vessel.

other than that they seem fine. most people mine solo, i'd imagine, so the mack/retty is the obvious choice.


Aside from the fact that the tank on the mack means there is no point in getting a skiff and it will suck in enough rock to make the hulk also pointless in getting.

It overlaps the other two exhumers far too much.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#503 - 2013-11-10 12:27:40 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


my point is that unless you've been recently blobbed by a fleet of mackaniaws then it's practically a nonissue.

though i know barges get used as bait ships a lot as the eve community just can't help themselves!



The issue isnt these ships vs others, its the barges vs themselves.

The mack and retriever simply out class the other 4 barges.


yeah well they took the +2 warp core strength off the skiff. if it were the ventures big brother then it would make sense. also it could probably use a bigger drone bay/more bandwidth and it could be useful as a low/null vessel.

other than that they seem fine. most people mine solo, i'd imagine, so the mack/retty is the obvious choice.


Aside from the fact that the tank on the mack means there is no point in getting a skiff and it will suck in enough rock to make the hulk also pointless in getting.

It overlaps the other two exhumers far too much.


the hulk/cov are designed for fleet mining. you're supposed to have about 4 of them per orca to make it worthwhile. if you nerf the mackinaw everyone will go back to hulk, just like everyone used to.

i'm not saying it's perfect but it's much better than it used to be.

forums.  serious business.

Teyla Amidale
Zahadu
#504 - 2013-11-10 16:38:45 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Its getting old. Every second or third jump there are idiot alts in destroyers ganking people. My computer almost died yesterday loading hundreds of concord ships at a high sec gate. Spending weeks in null dodging Goons and then come back to supposedly safe space and its more of the same crap.

You guys changed siphons because they were too cheap and griefer like for the big alliances after their big whine fest. Man up and do something about the state of high sec and their alt gankers.

No I haven't been ganked but its annoying to have to make every single high sec jump and not be able to afk at all in "safe space" even in a crappy non faction fitted frigate and its annoying to see people killing other people in high sec with no risk in cheap lame ass destroyers - make them work for it, this is EvE Online, its not Counterstrike.

Killing other players should require skill, it should require brains, it should require risk and it should require a war dec or going to low sec or null sec.

At the moment all it requires is a cheap destroyer and a low skilled alt account.

This is not the game that you guys designed, I have been here since the beginning and when things did get to the point that this sort of rubbish was happening, you adjusted Concord or you adjusted DPS or EHP.

Time to fix your game in this respect, its crap and broken.

Couldn't say it better. Been playing eve since 2007 and its getting worse.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#505 - 2013-11-10 16:47:39 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


the hulk/cov are designed for fleet mining. you're supposed to have about 4 of them per orca to make it worthwhile. if you nerf the mackinaw everyone will go back to hulk, just like everyone used to.

i'm not saying it's perfect but it's much better than it used to be.


That the whole point of teircide.

Want the good yeild? Get a hulk

Want the most cargo space? use a mack

Want the tank? go for a skiff.


Right now the mack ticks all three boxes.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#506 - 2013-11-10 16:48:36 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Teyla Amidale wrote:

Couldn't say it better. Been playing eve since 2007 and its getting worse.


Tell me, have you heard of the corp called M0o?
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#507 - 2013-11-10 16:57:09 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


the hulk/cov are designed for fleet mining. you're supposed to have about 4 of them per orca to make it worthwhile. if you nerf the mackinaw everyone will go back to hulk, just like everyone used to.

i'm not saying it's perfect but it's much better than it used to be.


That the whole point of teircide.

Want the best yeild? FGet a hulk

Want the most cargo space? use a mack

Want the tank? go fort a skiff.


Right now the mack ticks all three boxes.


you can't get 90K EHP out of a mack, that's what a tanky skiff can do.

best i can get out of a mack is 45K, both omnitank, even shield resists as much as possible, damage control and plate in teh lows. that's quite a difference.

forums.  serious business.

Anarkia Evangel
Apex Frontiers
#508 - 2013-11-10 17:28:53 UTC
This is how I see it.

T1 haulers are completely broke from my point of view, I haven’t flow one since ganking became so popular. They have so little HP they are easy targets for gankers and not worth the trouble.

I do fly T2 haulers, my Blockade Runner gets locked a lot running though high sec and I rarely have anything valuable in it, I also never afk after finding it in armor a number of times on getting back to my computer. I mostly want to blame this on the “shoot me” sign in its description “Immune to cargo scanning”.

But I can’t, I’ve been gank a number of times afk travelling in shuttles and noob ships with nothing but 1 unit if tritanium in the cargo and sometimes not even that.

I wonder if it’s the age of my character and people think it’s a good gamble but it’s ridiculous losing noobs ships like that, fair play if I’m carrying something of value. But the fact it happens so often make me feel there is something wrong.

Is it so easy and cheap to do that gankers can afford to destroy empty noob ships and shuttles?

Or are there so many people flying valuable items in them that it makes randomly shooting them worth it?

I’m not sure of a solution, whether ganking needs to be looked at as a whole or if the HP of certain ships needs to be address.

I don’t think the current system is working.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#509 - 2013-11-10 17:31:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
you can't get 90K EHP out of a mack, that's what a tanky skiff can do.

best i can get out of a mack is 45K, both omnitank, even shield resists as much as possible, damage control and plate in teh lows. that's quite a difference.

It gets sufficient tank, making the additional tank the Skiff offers redundant.
The same with the yield: it provides sufficient yield, which makes the additional yield of the Hulk not worth the effort.

The differences are too small or just meaningless.

Anarkia Evangel wrote:

Is it so easy and cheap to do that gankers can afford to destroy empty noob ships and shuttles?
Or are there so many people flying valuable items in them that it makes randomly shooting them worth it?

With the number of high-profile ganks of shuttles and n00bships with bucketloads of PLEXes in them, it's more a case of the latter. After all, with a jackpot of tens of billions, why not take the gamble? This could be your lucky day.

Meanwhile, my BRs and freighters have never been so much as locked up. In 6 years, I have never been ganked. I've been targeted once back in 2009, but that gank failed because I had accidentally tanked my trusty old Badger… Oh, and I landed in a smarbomb field once, but that one appeared to be more a for-fun/opportunistic set-up that hoped to catch something — me landing in it was purely accidental. Also completely ineffectual (having 300k EHP on your Orca does that… Lol)
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
RAZOR Alliance
#510 - 2013-11-10 17:38:20 UTC
I must agree with the op inasmuch as gameplay designed around using throwaway alts is bad gameply.

No good deed goes unpunished

Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#511 - 2013-11-10 17:50:13 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
you can't get 90K EHP out of a mack, that's what a tanky skiff can do.

best i can get out of a mack is 45K, both omnitank, even shield resists as much as possible, damage control and plate in teh lows. that's quite a difference.

It gets sufficient tank, making the additional tank the Skiff offers redundant.
The same with the yield: it provides sufficient yield, which makes the additional yield of the Hulk not worth the effort.

The differences are too small or just meaningless.


well if the mack had less tank then the price difference between it and the retriever would make the mack worthless. it's not like you get 8 times more ore bay.

forums.  serious business.

Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#512 - 2013-11-10 17:58:06 UTC
I keep hearing the term "throwaway alts" when referring to gankers. I'm not so sure that's actually correct. From what I've been reading quite of a few of these gankers LOVE what they do, and as such I'm betting that rather than throwaways they view these characters lovingly as harvesters of tears. CCP has already made it a Very Bad Thing(tm) to biomass alts to remove low security status.
Aside from that, after coming back ten months ago from a year long hiatus into the hinterlands of no internet I was somewhat appalled to see what had become of my cherished flaming rocket car of asteroidal badtouchies... aka the Hulk. After doing a little reading I promptly turned it in for a Mackinaw. After about oh, 45 minutes of mining I realized that I would rather gargle broken glass than continue to do this. As I have never believed that mining AFK, or even being AFK uncloaked was ever a good idea, I came to the conclusion that my mining days were done.
That being said, I do believe the Mackinaw does need some rebalance as it truly is the prime solo mining vessel now.
Well, perhaps except for the procurer, which apparently feeds on other mining vessels, as The Pirate Story Thread has recently demonstrated.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#513 - 2013-11-10 18:05:33 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Actually, Meilandra, they are on record as saying that the barge EHP buffs went too far, and they need to be downscaled by a fair margin.

They're all going to be taking a hit, not just the Mack.

And thank goodness for that. It's about time that it be not impossible to die if you are awake.


Really? Well, I don't have a problem with the current EHP on the current barges/exhumers tbh. If they go back to EHP levels where even heavily tanked macks are soloable by a single t2 cata that would be a bit overkill in my book. But a yield nerf, I'd be in favor of that.

Either way, as soon as I finish my training there are gonna be a lot more dead Macks on the killboards.

And it's Miss Vanderganken for you! My mother warned me about boys like you, you scoundrel!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#514 - 2013-11-10 18:05:48 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


you can't get 90K EHP out of a mack, that's what a tanky skiff can do.

best i can get out of a mack is 45K, both omnitank, even shield resists as much as possible, damage control and plate in teh lows. that's quite a difference.


You don't need 90k.

All you need is enough to make a gank unprofitable to do and the mack can get this without sacrificing any of its yeild.
Jim Era
#515 - 2013-11-10 18:09:01 UTC
does the mack even have any decent yield?
It mines pretty slow if I'm not mistaken,
or are we just trying to keep people from mining altogether?

Wat™

Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#516 - 2013-11-10 18:14:50 UTC
Depends on who you ask. When you strip away all the rhetoric and rp, from what I can tell groups like CODE are mainly trying to keep miners awake and at their keys while they do what they do, rather than AFKminz0rz and botting. As such I can't really criticize that. Others do it because they can, or because of the reaction they get from it... or they do it because it is "what is best in life".

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#517 - 2013-11-10 18:17:42 UTC
Jim Era wrote:
does the mack even have any decent yield?
It mines pretty slow if I'm not mistaken,
None of them have bad yield any more. There's just one ship for each tech level that has more (Hulk & Covetor). The others simply sit on the same baseline.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#518 - 2013-11-10 18:30:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


you can't get 90K EHP out of a mack, that's what a tanky skiff can do.

best i can get out of a mack is 45K, both omnitank, even shield resists as much as possible, damage control and plate in teh lows. that's quite a difference.


You don't need 90k.

All you need is enough to make a gank unprofitable to do and the mack can get this without sacrificing any of its yeild.


that's assuming direct profit is the motive rather than for the lolz or running a highsec extortion racket/cult.

but like i said, nerf its tank and it's just a very expensive retriever. no point to it at all.

forums.  serious business.

Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#519 - 2013-11-10 20:52:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Meilandra Vanderganken
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


you can't get 90K EHP out of a mack, that's what a tanky skiff can do.

best i can get out of a mack is 45K, both omnitank, even shield resists as much as possible, damage control and plate in teh lows. that's quite a difference.


You don't need 90k.

All you need is enough to make a gank unprofitable to do and the mack can get this without sacrificing any of its yeild.


that's assuming direct profit is the motive rather than for the lolz or running a highsec extortion racket/cult.


Or assuming gankers want isk efficiency (most do). We all want our killboards to look good.

Quote:
but like i said, nerf its tank and it's just a very expensive retriever. no point to it at all.
I pretty much have to agree with you on that.

Edit: which is why it would make an hilarious gank target if it got a significant nerf to tank.
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#520 - 2013-11-10 21:01:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Renegade Heart
Anarkia Evangel wrote:
my Blockade Runner gets locked a lot running though high sec


If you cloak before warping they can't lock you.

Just saying.

And if you are on about when you undock, then use an instawarp.