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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

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Zions Child
Higashikata Industries
#2841 - 2013-11-07 08:32:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Zions Child
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Wadafak, modafaka? Are you on crack?

I dare you to find 10... no, 5 similarities between that trailer above and the actual game. Roll

And it hasn't improved much. New players are now fed with a intro video displaying the pod as a cockpit... and i bet you that Rubicon trailer will have less than 50% actual ingame content to it, beauty shots of ships & stuff included.


That's a pretty ****** trailer (although I blame the voice acting and boring story more than anything else)

I miss the Dominion Trailer. The Empyrean Age trailer and teasers were some of the best. Super ominous. So good.

As for the trailer you linked - while I'm not certain, I'd argue that was all-ish ingame content (obviously some things were not in-game, and there were some funky camera angles, but that's to be expected). If you're talking about the prettiness and flashiness of the UI, and its integration into the 3D environment, that's been the overall push with EVE for years - it's only been in the past few that they've been able to get aggressive with it (after the redesign of the code regarding the Carbon initiative or whatever they called it).

EDIT: If you want five things -

The very opening scene is taken straight from the captain's quarters - gussied up a bit obviously, but they do that with all the story-driven trailers.
The avatar of whomever it was is the same as one we'd create - his movements seem more realistic though that may be an effect of the camera angle.
He's flying a scorpion variant which acts as a scorpion.
It shows a POS, the new mining frigate, and an alliance outpost.
The battle effects and such are all in fame effects (again, gussied up).

It's not a very good trailer, but it marks no great departure from their previous efforts.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#2842 - 2013-11-07 09:28:39 UTC
Zions Child wrote:
It's not a very good trailer, but it marks no great departure from their previous efforts.

For me it's more what the new trailers/FMVs imply then what they show... I mean, I'm madly in love with the Origins "trailer", but when you show it to somebody that never really heard of EVE, she has to think: "Wow, cool story, space ships and ground battles... what an awesome scifie game that must be!"

It's ok for companies to do that when a game isn't even out yet, well, not really "ok", but expected... but for a 10 year old game?

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2843 - 2013-11-07 14:15:25 UTC
Zions Child wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Wadafak, modafaka? Are you on crack?

I dare you to find 10... no, 5 similarities between that trailer above and the actual game. Roll

And it hasn't improved much. New players are now fed with a intro video displaying the pod as a cockpit... and i bet you that Rubicon trailer will have less than 50% actual ingame content to it, beauty shots of ships & stuff included.


That's a pretty ****** trailer (although I blame the voice acting and boring story more than anything else)

I miss the Dominion Trailer. The Empyrean Age trailer and teasers were some of the best. Super ominous. So good.

As for the trailer you linked - while I'm not certain, I'd argue that was all-ish ingame content (obviously some things were not in-game, and there were some funky camera angles, but that's to be expected). If you're talking about the prettiness and flashiness of the UI, and its integration into the 3D environment, that's been the overall push with EVE for years - it's only been in the past few that they've been able to get aggressive with it (after the redesign of the code regarding the Carbon initiative or whatever they called it).

EDIT: If you want five things -

The very opening scene is taken straight from the captain's quarters - gussied up a bit obviously, but they do that with all the story-driven trailers.
The avatar of whomever it was is the same as one we'd create - his movements seem more realistic though that may be an effect of the camera angle.
He's flying a scorpion variant which acts as a scorpion.
It shows a POS, the new mining frigate, and an alliance outpost.
The battle effects and such are all in fame effects (again, gussied up).

It's not a very good trailer, but it marks no great departure from their previous efforts.


I was talking about something else than using EVE props and assets... albeit in 0:40, they use something that doesn't exists ingame.

And then there's the little issue on how the trailer is a blatant lie with null relation with the actual bounty system.Lol

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#2844 - 2013-11-07 14:31:05 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


I was talking about something else than using EVE props and assets... albeit in 0:40, they use something that doesn't exists ingame.

And then there's the little issue on how the trailer is a blatant lie with null relation with the actual bounty system.Lol


Or the fact that the Widow took out kill the Ventures despite not having a point Lol

wumbo

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#2845 - 2013-11-07 16:47:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
And it hasn't improved much. New players are now fed with a intro video displaying the pod as a cockpit... and i bet you that Rubicon trailer will have less than 50% actual ingame content to it, beauty shots of ships & stuff included.


In the Features & Ideas thread introducing the plans to rename skills, CCP Ytterbium posted this update, which includes this little gem:

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Starship Piloting instead of Starship Command:
For this particular point we wanted to distinguish the skill and the group so they do not overlap - it also ties on other plans we have on the future. However, we hear you, agreed it sounds less appealing than the one we have currently - we'll discuss this point internally again.


Italics mine.

This could very well be relevant to avatar gameplay...

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Zions Child
Higashikata Industries
#2846 - 2013-11-07 17:47:22 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


I was talking about something else than using EVE props and assets... albeit in 0:40, they use something that doesn't exists ingame.

And then there's the little issue on how the trailer is a blatant lie with null relation with the actual bounty system.Lol


I was just using your request and being a semantic dickbag Big smile

But yeah, that video had nothing to do with EVE politics (and I don't really know enough about the new bounty system to say either way - it seems a lot less ******** than the old one). Like an alliance would give one single **** about some worthless miner in low-sec.

But again, they've done that plenty (read: almost every) time in the past with their trailers. They sell you a picturesque land of sci-fi and wait for you to get involved before you notice that it's all covered in spreadsheets.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2847 - 2013-11-07 20:18:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Zions Child wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


I was talking about something else than using EVE props and assets... albeit in 0:40, they use something that doesn't exists ingame.

And then there's the little issue on how the trailer is a blatant lie with null relation with the actual bounty system.Lol


I was just using your request and being a semantic dickbag Big smile

But yeah, that video had nothing to do with EVE politics (and I don't really know enough about the new bounty system to say either way - it seems a lot less ******** than the old one). Like an alliance would give one single **** about some worthless miner in low-sec.

But again, they've done that plenty (read: almost every) time in the past with their trailers. They sell you a picturesque land of sci-fi and wait for you to get involved before you notice that it's all covered in spreadsheets.


Well, from the threads surfacing after the live event today, I guess we'll have to add "Tidi and lowsec gatecamps" to the game description... Lol

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#2848 - 2013-11-08 10:28:06 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Gungnir Winder wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
CCP just abandoned the "actual ingame footage" line a few trailers ago and they're on their way to state "this trailer is an artistic rendering and actual ingame content may differ". Because nothing sells better reheated porridge than the videogame equivalent of a Big Mac advertisement...

Yup... I mean, sure, then again, most companies these days do that... I just didn't expect CCP to do it.


I agree it does show a desperate lowering of the standards. In a sense CCP is admitting that their game isn't good enough to sell on it's merits. Very, very sad...


I don't agree.

A trailer is something that gets you excited, it gives you a feeling of what the final product will be, it's not just an ad.


Well, for some reason, CCP used to sell the product, like this:

Player acting, player footage, player music. This is EVE Online!

And then they just started selling... something else.

Wadafak, modafaka? Are you on crack?

I dare you to find 10... no, 5 similarities between that trailer above and the actual game. Roll

And it hasn't improved much. New players are now fed with a intro video displaying the pod as a cockpit... and i bet you that Rubicon trailer will have less than 50% actual ingame content to it, beauty shots of ships & stuff included.


Yeah, that cockpit video annoyed me too, plus the attempt to change the skill name to' spaceship piloting' made me think that one day our avatars would sit in cockpits with sleeper implants and the pod would be ancient history whilst we all fly our ships with keyboard controls and an optional game controller. Yet more dumbing down of eve back story, the harsh gritty sci fi elements of eve and the most importantly the atmosphere of the game world. This crass marketing must be resisted at all costs.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

John Cant
NEXUS Holdings Inc.
#2849 - 2013-11-08 12:39:57 UTC  |  Edited by: John Cant
Looking at avatar gameplay and the integration into the whole "one eve universe" concept I've concerns over whether there will be direct integration of avatar gameplay or not. Not that I feel it won't be developed but looking at eve-Valkyrie, I can't see how this is meant to directly integrate with eve and is in effect a separate shard game from the eve universe we know and love.

If we do see wis in some version, will it be "based on" the eve universe or actually in it?

JC.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#2850 - 2013-11-08 12:48:03 UTC
Actually not taking part in the event and being there (at least i was there), when I could walk in circles in CQ watching my ship bob in hangar, listening to the radio, I would have been less annoyed, and richer for 250M ISK. Is that something what gives WIS gameplay some credit? I think YES. Lol
John Cant
NEXUS Holdings Inc.
#2851 - 2013-11-08 13:21:14 UTC  |  Edited by: John Cant
Shalua Rui wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
The funny thing is,if CCP delivered WIS as promised ,they did not have to deliver WIS content in spades at all.

Exactly... instead they dumped the project all together and deliver bits and pieces of other new content (deployable structures) that are equally inconsistent, and yes, useless... great plan there. Blink


From what I've seen regarding SC, ccp had better get their act together if they have any plans of getting any form of avatar gameplay in place before they get trumped.

Seriously, what will be innovative about it if there is a game out there focused on both spaceships and avatars if they "deploy 2nd"?

I don't get the "wis will break eve" mentality of the diehard fis afficionados, there's plenty of space for all sorts of content and activities.

I am torn between two camps as to what "avatar gameplay will be needed for" as I agree that all key activities should be performable using the current UI so avatars will not gain an advantage over those who weld themselves into their pods but also there must be a point to it that compliments and does not detract from current gameplay whilst ensuring there is a clear purpose to the use of avatars.

I'm all for additional bells and whistles also, give me a hangar I can properly walk around in, let me gaze upon the stacked crates of tritanium and sit atop a pile of all my goods, or invite someone in and grab a ppm out of a box and lob it at them.. ;).

JC.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2852 - 2013-11-09 12:48:52 UTC
John Cant wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
The funny thing is,if CCP delivered WIS as promised ,they did not have to deliver WIS content in spades at all.

Exactly... instead they dumped the project all together and deliver bits and pieces of other new content (deployable structures) that are equally inconsistent, and yes, useless... great plan there. Blink


From what I've seen regarding SC, ccp had better get their act together if they have any plans of getting any form of avatar gameplay in place before they get trumped.

Seriously, what will be innovative about it if there is a game out there focused on both spaceships and avatars if they "deploy 2nd"?

I don't get the "wis will break eve" mentality of the diehard fis afficionados, there's plenty of space for all sorts of content and activities.

I am torn between two camps as to what "avatar gameplay will be needed for" as I agree that all key activities should be performable using the current UI so avatars will not gain an advantage over those who weld themselves into their pods but also there must be a point to it that compliments and does not detract from current gameplay whilst ensuring there is a clear purpose to the use of avatars.

I'm all for additional bells and whistles also, give me a hangar I can properly walk around in, let me gaze upon the stacked crates of tritanium and sit atop a pile of all my goods, or invite someone in and grab a ppm out of a box and lob it at them.. ;).

JC.


Well, seeing the Rubicon hype, it's obvious that CCP hopes that we will want to go somewhere... but that somewhere it's not beyond the Door, but beyond the current space. Because when 70% of your players never go to lowsec, never go to nullsec and never go to wormholes, it's because they want to go somewhere else. Roll

They will never learn.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#2853 - 2013-11-09 12:56:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
They will never learn.

How could they? They are so out of touch with what their players want right now as they never where... almost in every aspect of the game, not only WiS/high sec/PVE content.

It's all about "how can players screw each other over most efficiently" with them now... as you said: A Viking's deffinition of fun. Roll

...and (generally speaking) don't tell me it isn't so: All the frustrated (soon have been) players on other game forums (SC, Elite Dangerous), and even here on this very forums, are painting another picture. The comments go from: "EVE is going down the drain" to "it is already dead, if it wasn't for some diehards with too much money on their hands".

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)

Winters Chill
Unitas Incorporated
#2854 - 2013-11-09 13:05:28 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


Well, for some reason, CCP used to sell the product, like this:

Player acting, player footage, player music. This is EVE Online!

And then they just started selling... something else.

Wadafak, modafaka? Are you on crack?

I dare you to find 10... no, 5 similarities between that trailer above and the actual game. Roll
.



You know nothing little noob.


Starring the mutant rat Splinter.

"many years ago, i came across 4 baby turtles..."
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#2855 - 2013-11-09 13:09:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Anomaly One
I never believed a gaming company can be so out of touch with its playerbase but maybe this is what the playerbase wants, I always believed it's the companies that attract a certain type of gamers and I was right, for CCP to attract the villains and cutthroats and scammers they have to have the same disgusting personality irl (out of touch, ignore everything, lie and hide etc.) yes this whole mentality especially coming from the company is pretty annoying I can understand it in game but ffs you're devs, anyway star citizen is looking better everyday to me if it's not pay 2 win hopefully, can't wait to fly a 300i, going back to MUD games till then, where I can actually do whatever I want.

Instead of providing for the entire player base they provide for some and the rest are just cannon fodder.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#2856 - 2013-11-09 13:30:56 UTC
Anomaly One wrote:
Instead of providing for the entire player base they provide for some and the rest are just cannon fodder.

Subscription fee paying cannon fodder. Blink Well, I for one, will not be for much longer...

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2857 - 2013-11-09 14:34:46 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
Instead of providing for the entire player base they provide for some and the rest are just cannon fodder.

Subscription fee paying cannon fodder. Blink Well, I for one, will not be for much longer...


That's the craziest part of it. They're screwing us with our money.

FAi, I just found out that they're going to "fleetissuize" the Orca. "Fleetissuize" refers to how the Hurricane was nerfed to oblivion, and two patches later was reborn as the Hurricane Fleet Issue -roughly the same old Cane, but four times more expensive.

Guess what? With Rubicon, the Orca warp speed has been nerfed to 2.0 AU/s vs 2.7 AU/s, but, hey! the new Ghost Sites will provide a low grade Ascendancy set with a 40%~ish bonus to warp speed, so you can get your old warp speed by buying the whole set of low grade Ascendancy implants!

Enjoy your fleetissuizement! And pay for it!

The nicest touch is that the new warp speeds are going to make much worse one of EVE's worst issues: long and boring travel times.

And that poses for good development. Roll

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#2858 - 2013-11-09 15:02:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
And that poses for good development. Roll

On the flip side, Interceptors will warp so quickly that they are well underway from one gate to the next before their cloak drops, and they are bubble immune, so everyone wanting to move around PLEX, skill books and other low volume goods will fly one of those by default, since they are more or less fool/gank proof... Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2859 - 2013-11-09 15:15:06 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
And that poses for good development. Roll

On the flip side, Interceptors will warp so quickly that they are well underway from one gate to the next before their cloak drops, and they are bubble immune, so everyone wanting to move around PLEX, skill books and other low volume good will fly one of those by default, since they are more or less fool/gank proof... Blink


Well, I do my Jita runs in a cloaky ship, and certainly will be buying a muscle car... err... interceptor for when I just need to move from A to B. Bear


Note: there is no reason to move PLEXes. You can buy them with a Jita alt, contract them to the target account, the contract can be accepted from anywhere, and the PLEX can be activated from anywhere. So. Don't. Never. Ever. Move. A. PLEX. Bear

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#2860 - 2013-11-09 17:38:13 UTC
Anomaly One wrote:
I never believed a gaming company can be so out of touch with its playerbase but maybe this is what the playerbase wants, I always believed it's the companies that attract a certain type of gamers and I was right, for CCP to attract the villains and cutthroats and scammers they have to have the same disgusting personality irl (out of touch, ignore everything, lie and hide etc.) yes this whole mentality especially coming from the company is pretty annoying I can understand it in game but ffs you're devs, anyway star citizen is looking better everyday to me if it's not pay 2 win hopefully, can't wait to fly a 300i, going back to MUD games till then, where I can actually do whatever I want.

Instead of providing for the entire player base they provide for some and the rest are just cannon fodder.


That's because they choose to listen to the CSM like it's truly representative of the player base when we all know that high sec in particular has no CSM representation.

Before someone from the CSM gets in here to tell us that's because the high sec folk don't vote for anyone, I would further point out that the people of high sec are not apathetic when it comes to voting. The CSM is the body that is truly apathetic by failing to appeal to everyone. If they want high sec votes they should offer highsec something worthwhile, but given that the CSM candidacy are by and large sponsored by the large null sec alliances many of which have sworn to destroy high sec then I cant see this happening soon. I post this as a low/null sec player who thinks the system of CSM representation is flawed.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...