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Balancing Feedback: Hybrid Turrets

First post First post
Author
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#961 - 2011-11-17 20:36:44 UTC
It takes the data from all ships involved in a kill I believe, so that is about as comprehensive as you can get.
Hentes Zsemle
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#962 - 2011-11-17 21:37:03 UTC
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Hentes Zsemle wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
mate teahupoo wrote:
that is true if I were in a ship using two TD's... but if I am not, then what?

I'll give you a hint: 'tracking' disrupters have dual purpose...

Crack on.


also tracking = speed
signature = area

My condolences about the phisics education in your neighbourhood.
Come again?

Also, flaming attempts look much cooler when they've been proof read... Big smile


Edit: No seriously, I have no idea why you posted that - I was pointing out the range disruption feature of tracking disrupters to the other chap...


I wanted to reply to the guy you replied to, and just add the thing i wanted to say to the thing you said.

Anyway, signature is an area, signature radius is its radius, target painters increase that radius.
Tracking is angular velocity, it has a different dimension than signature. So what Gabriel Karade said makes just as much sense as comparing an apple to a truck.
Sigras
Conglomo
#963 - 2011-11-17 22:15:29 UTC
Nikuno wrote:
It takes the data from all ships involved in a kill I believe, so that is about as comprehensive as you can get.

Interesting, but I wish I could see a damage done statistic instead because I can shoot at something with blasters to get on the KM that doesnt mean I applied any damage.
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#964 - 2011-11-17 22:57:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Karade
Hentes Zsemle wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Hentes Zsemle wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
mate teahupoo wrote:
that is true if I were in a ship using two TD's... but if I am not, then what?

I'll give you a hint: 'tracking' disrupters have dual purpose...

Crack on.


also tracking = speed
signature = area

My condolences about the phisics education in your neighbourhood.
Come again?

Also, flaming attempts look much cooler when they've been proof read... Big smile


Edit: No seriously, I have no idea why you posted that - I was pointing out the range disruption feature of tracking disrupters to the other chap...


I wanted to reply to the guy you replied to, and just add the thing i wanted to say to the thing you said.

Anyway, signature is an area, signature radius is its radius, target painters increase that radius.
Tracking is angular velocity, it has a different dimension than signature. So what Gabriel Karade said makes just as much sense as comparing an apple to a truck.
I don't think you're reading my post correctly..... but carry on being special if you wish...

I was not talking about signature radius, I was talking about tracking disrupters being used to disrupt optimal and falloff ranges. Where you've got the idea I'm referring to signature radius from I have no idea, but hey ho.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293

Cheekything
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#965 - 2011-11-17 23:09:00 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Nikuno wrote:
It takes the data from all ships involved in a kill I believe, so that is about as comprehensive as you can get.

Interesting, but I wish I could see a damage done statistic instead because I can shoot at something with blasters to get on the KM that doesnt mean I applied any damage.


True but the reality is that it would be hard to fudge the results in such a large number.

I'm sure CCP could do their own check but the fact still remains hybrids currently lack the range and DPS of all weapons in eve.

DPS needs to be added to Rails and range to Blasters.
Rawls Canardly
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#966 - 2011-11-18 01:08:04 UTC
What CCP should check is how many hybrid boats that enter a fight are still flying after the fight ends.
I'm willing to bet it's less than half, post-patch...
Nemesor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#967 - 2011-11-18 01:14:29 UTC
Quote:
I like this info because it accounts for cross weapon fitting (artillery abaddons etc) but how does this calculate "kills" is it the killing blow? because if so, I would tend to think this stat is a bit skewed . . . additionally, I would think the top 10 would be all you need to show, because there are fewer common weapon systems than there are common ships . . .


If you take the ship statistics and stand it next to the weapons statistics, it adds up. The only inconsistency I can spot is the heavy neutron blasters, which can be explained by multiple different hulls using it but not making it on the top 20. (Vigilants and whatnot)

Rank Ships Kills
1 Drake 54822
2 Hurricane 47905
3 Abaddon 34259
4 Armageddon 21631
5 Zealot 15305
6 Tempest 13981
7 Maelstrom 13797
8 Dramiel 13186
9 Rifter 10627
10 Cynabal 9963
11 Sabre 9563
12 Rapier 8719
13 Scimitar 8496
14 Tengu 8312
15 Hound 8265
16 Vagabond 7737
17 Manticore 7276
18 Loki 7110
19 Harbinger 6001
20 Capsule 5365

Today in the top twenty we have:
3 Caldari
10 Minmatar
4 Amarr
2 Angel

0 Gallente

Rank Weapons Kills
1 425mm AutoCannon II 17151
2 Heavy Missile Launcher II 15148
3 200mm AutoCannon II 8269
4 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 7542
5 150mm Light AutoCannon II 7447
6 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II 7137
7 Mega Pulse Laser II 6446
8 Heavy Pulse Laser II 6307
9 720mm Howitzer Artillery II 6252
10 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II 4791
11 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher 4363
12 800mm Repeating Artillery II 3156
13 Focused Medium Pulse Laser II 1831
14 Light Neutron Blaster II 1763
15 Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I 1703
16 1400mm Prototype I Siege Cannon 1703
17 Heavy Neutron Blaster II 1661
18 650mm Artillery Cannon II 1522
19 1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I 1497
20 Dual 180mm AutoCannon II 1374
Cheekything
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#968 - 2011-11-18 09:34:59 UTC
Rawls Canardly wrote:
What CCP should check is how many hybrid boats that enter a fight are still flying after the fight ends.
I'm willing to bet it's less than half, post-patch...


I do not think I'm aware of any FC who wont primary a Hybrid ship in battle since most of them will die before they get in range.

They are now a bit more of a threat but they still lack the range needed to be useful.
thoth rothschild
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#969 - 2011-11-18 10:02:14 UTC
Cheekything wrote:
Rawls Canardly wrote:
What CCP should check is how many hybrid boats that enter a fight are still flying after the fight ends.
I'm willing to bet it's less than half, post-patch...


I do not think I'm aware of any FC who wont primary a Hybrid ship in battle since most of them will die before they get in range.

They are now a bit more of a threat but they still lack the range needed to be useful.



Sometimes they are ignored because they are no threat
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#970 - 2011-11-18 14:06:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Gaines
Quote:
I like this info because it accounts for cross weapon fitting (artillery abaddons etc) but how does this calculate "kills" is it the killing blow? because if so, I would tend to think this stat is a bit skewed . . . additionally, I would think the top 10 would be all you need to show, because there are fewer common weapon systems than there are common ships . . .


Informal quick sample poll with latest kills on BC (top damage dealer)

Proj: 19
Missile: 5
Laser: 2
Drone: 2
Blaster: 1
Rail: 0

Wow, doing this I even saw ACs on a harpy. As the top dmg dealer.

Blaster kill was of a cyno heron.

2 of the missile kills were from a Ferox, a "rail boat" by definition, rest were drakes of course.

What struck me was the number of Cynabal solo kills. I smell a new FOTM.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

Nemesor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#971 - 2011-11-18 14:46:38 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Quote:
I like this info because it accounts for cross weapon fitting (artillery abaddons etc) but how does this calculate "kills" is it the killing blow? because if so, I would tend to think this stat is a bit skewed . . . additionally, I would think the top 10 would be all you need to show, because there are fewer common weapon systems than there are common ships . . .


Informal quick sample poll with latest kills on BC (top damage dealer)

Proj: 19
Missile: 5
Laser: 2
Drone: 2
Blaster: 1
Rail: 0

Wow, doing this I even saw ACs on a harpy. As the top dmg dealer.

Blaster kill was of a cyno heron.

2 of the missile kills were from a Ferox, a "rail boat" by definition, rest were drakes of course.

What struck me was the number of Cynabal solo kills. I smell a new FOTM.


Cynabal was FOTM about 7-8 months ago. Its now fairly standard.
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#972 - 2011-11-18 15:03:07 UTC
Nemesor wrote:

Cynabal was FOTM about 7-8 months ago. Its now fairly standard.


I was deployed, missed it Sad

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#973 - 2011-11-18 19:58:40 UTC
Just a small insight : A railfit Ferox will now be better than a AutoCannon Ferox and with blasters actually bite stuff unfortunate to be within range Lol Woohoo.
That is 1 ship that I personally will consider a healthy choice for caldari pilots in the future.

Most likely the Moa might be viable too but I haven't done any comparisons on it.
Magosian
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#974 - 2011-11-18 21:09:09 UTC
Pinky Denmark wrote:
Just a small insight : A railfit Ferox will now be better than a AutoCannon Ferox and with blasters actually bite stuff unfortunate to be within range Lol Woohoo.
That is 1 ship that I personally will consider a healthy choice for caldari pilots in the future.

Most likely the Moa might be viable too but I haven't done any comparisons on it.


You're probably just looking at the damage numbers in the 20-25km range. There's no way medium rails are not going to be able to track a skirmish cruiser/BC who is MWD-orbiting you at said range....MAYBE dual 150mms with LOLdps......
Hamox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#975 - 2011-11-18 22:12:37 UTC
The big fail is that people are building hybrid fits in EFT and are happy about the numbers that look pretty good.
But EFT just doesn't take into account that you never will deploy your theoretical maximum damage becouse of range, tracking, sig radius and so on.
The only way to find out what will make more damage in this case (ferox rail or ferox AC) is to fit the ship and do some pvp tests vs a friend or corp mate.
Dare Devel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#976 - 2011-11-18 22:59:24 UTC
What ammo to use inorder to snipe using Rails with near 400-500 DPS from 150 KM (using 425 MM T2)?

Thanks
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#977 - 2011-11-18 23:30:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Denmark
That was a few nasty comments showcasing a lot of assumptions without any arguments of why my statement would be wrong - I just said a Ferox finally works better with hybrids than it does with Autocannons...
They will still be different and you can find advantage and disadvantage everywhere, but plz show me why a Ferox shouldn't be viable with rails or blasters with the current changes?

I didn't say the current changes were perfect. The ammo is still screaming for a revamp and the hybrids seems to lack a final touch, but the current changes gets us far in many ships...
Archare
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#978 - 2011-11-18 23:44:30 UTC
Pinky Denmark wrote:
That was a few nasty comments showcasing a lot of assumptions without any arguments of why my statement would be wrong - I just said a Ferox finally works better with hybrids than it does with Autocannons...
They will still be different and you can find advantage and disadvantage everywhere, but plz show me why a Ferox shouldn't be viable with rails or blasters with the current changes?

I didn't say the current changes were perfect. The ammo is still screaming for a revamp and the hybrids seems to lack a final touch, but the current changes gets us far in many ships...


The changes will make the ferox more functional but how much more? Could you link some fits/comparisons between the two and explanations? I don't fly a ferox myself or any caldari for that matter, though I might train cruisers to 3 for the BC's since it's a quick train. Some quantifiable numbers and in game applications would be appreciated to demonstrate their abilities.
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#979 - 2011-11-19 04:28:07 UTC
if you want to use hybrids so badly. move to wormhole space where every wh aka gate spawns your target with in wb/scram range of you.

lotsa QQ in this thread. keep using AC's if you hate the range so badly
Cap Tyrian
Guiding Hand Social Club
#980 - 2011-11-19 04:41:45 UTC
I'll put my opinion to a point !

I'll gladly take what i can get but...

Really Fixing Blasters you have the options three:


  • lower ROF same DPS proportional cap use- Artillery close range counterpart
  • Ad allot of DPS best threw big OVERHEATING bonus
  • E-Wear Amo - versatility in its own way and would fit to Caldari


(in order of my preference)

My word has bin spoken !