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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

First post First post First post
Author
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2501 - 2013-10-10 06:56:37 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:
Latest patch notes...

Quote:
New players will be placed either in the Captain's Quarters or in the hangar when starting into the game.


Sounds like they may actually be interested in what retains customers.


Full note is:

Quote:
New players will be placed either in the Captain's Quarters or in the hangar when starting into the game. This will help researching the impact of the start location for new players.


And it translates as:

Quote:
New players will be placed either in the Captain's Quarters or in the hangar when starting into the game. This will help researching wether the CQ makes them quit in shocked disappointment so we better get rid of it altogether.


Probably they'll find out that the answer is "yes" and so they will get rid of the CQ. Roll

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Flamespar
WarRavens
#2502 - 2013-10-10 07:02:27 UTC
It'll be interesting to see if it has a discernible effect given that one of the original intentions of the CQ was to start new players in an environment in which they were familiar.
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#2503 - 2013-10-10 07:04:03 UTC
I bet this will make most new players run to the forums and ask "how do I open the door Shocked?"
Flamespar
WarRavens
#2504 - 2013-10-10 07:14:14 UTC
Anomaly One wrote:
I bet this will make most new players run to the forums and ask "how do I open the door Shocked?"


Lol. I wonder if they will be tracking the number of times players click on the door.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#2505 - 2013-10-10 08:38:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Trii Seo
raven666wings wrote:
Trii Seo wrote:
Oh look! Concept art! We're doomed!

Right, because it's not like more than 50% of concept art making it to the final product is often called a "Victory". .


What I think is worth caling a "Victory" there is not the percentage of that art that will make it into the game or not, but the fact that they actually have some and are showing it to the project supporters. That and having a functional and playable game engine that will be giving life to those assets. (please keep in mind when looking at that link that the the date there is 2013 not 2007, the company showcasing the concept is not CCP and the authors are not making some kind of Future Pie in the Sky™ promise).


I'd be more, if at all, impressed by renders and animation demonstrations.

For each concept art:

- A 3D modeller has to build an optimized mesh of said model
- He has to rig it for animation
- A texture artist has to make it good looking, compensating for the lack of polygon complexity.

Now, we don't even know how functional said engine is and how will it be used. CARBON used by EVE is impressive in the character department, but unused due to dev focus being elsewhere. Not to mention the main author of the whole SC thing has Pie in the Sky Promising Specialization trained to 5.

Each of those people need to be paid, and - granted - they got a crapton of money from backers, but the backers didn't give them time. Developing everything takes time. If SC focuses on shiney "FISH TANK!" "CLOTHING!", I'll just put my sunglasses on, order a Margharitta and get a front row seat on its specular crash event.

And, of course, I'll stick with CCP which (despite making shoddy community decisions when attempting to reward people for contributing to said community) is focusing on core gameplay experience: spaceships. Each iteration they do their best to make spaceships more and more fun, giving you a reason to log in and play the damn game.

Visuals and nifty addons can only spice up an existing, solid product. CCP learned that lesson in Incarna and made a good decision: core gameplay before anything else. Then they made another good pick by releasing some of the NEX items for much lower prices - and we already can see a lot of people making use of them. Those who don't buy them for AUR, buy them for ISK.

Hell, even the damned monocle became something of a wealth status symbol. "HEY LOOK I'M SO RICH I CAN THROW A BILLION INTO THE SHITTER HA-HA!". I'll kind of repeat myself saying - CCP should flip the "enabled" tags on all other NEX things and just see what players do with them.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#2506 - 2013-10-10 10:20:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Trii Seo wrote:

And, of course, I'll stick with CCP which (despite making shoddy community decisions when attempting to reward people for contributing to said community) is focusing on core gameplay experience: spaceships. Each iteration they do their best to make spaceships more and more fun, giving you a reason to log in and play the damn game.

Visuals and nifty addons can only spice up an existing, solid product. CCP learned that lesson in Incarna and made a good decision: core gameplay before anything else. Then they made another good pick by releasing some of the NEX items for much lower prices - and we already can see a lot of people making use of them. Those who don't buy them for AUR, buy them for ISK.

Hell, even the damned monocle became something of a wealth status symbol. "HEY LOOK I'M SO RICH I CAN THROW A BILLION INTO THE SHITTER HA-HA!". I'll kind of repeat myself saying - CCP should flip the "enabled" tags on all other NEX things and just see what players do with them.


Agreed, they should release the other clothing items that are "awaiting a pricing structure". As for CCP focusing on core game play, I am glad and I am happy with the changes that are being made. But, I'm not happy with the quantity of those changes.

It feels like CCP have assigned Eve a skeleton crew, and that Eve is now pulling the weight of one dying FPS, two undeveloped games and a mobile app that no one will use. Most developers know better than to be running that many projects when only one of them is actually profitable.

We could be having expansions now that are the same as they are but with "extra" iteration on Avatar content each time. They should put the entire Valkyrie team onto Eve again until WoD is done or Dust is pulling it's weight financially and then everyone could be happy.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2507 - 2013-10-10 10:23:17 UTC
Thetabetalpha wrote:
You guys think they are capable to deliver any avatar content?
CCP is spreading their efforts and devs thin among so many projects (even Blizzard who is significantly richer has less stuff going on at the same time) that at this development rate not even next generation of capsuleers(in real life-assuming Eve even lasts this long) will get to try ambulation.


^
This explain where the problem is.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#2508 - 2013-10-10 12:45:35 UTC
I don't think EVE has a skeleton crew working on it. I actually think CCP is doing the thing it has always done best.

"Smile and wave, boys!"

They're cooking something up, behind the charming CSM ("Let's ignore the 'you're useless' booing, this is gonna ROCK!") and other announcements. They threw some (Fozzie, Rise) to the wolves with rebalance and new ships, accidentally made a scandal and now nobody's talking about "What's CCP doing behind the curtains?".

If I had to go with a hunch, recoding POS/Sov mechanics. POS system is old, really old - it'd take months to rework it and I bet that's where their code monkeys are at. They're just not telling us because people would get excited for a revamp coming, at best, in the summer expansion.

They'd overhype themselves for a revamp that's functional and good, expecting second coming and being disappointed regardless of how awesome said rework is.

There, I've seen the truth. Now watch my killboard, if you see CCP ganking me - you'll know I was right!

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2509 - 2013-10-10 13:10:45 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
It'll be interesting to see if it has a discernible effect given that one of the original intentions of the CQ was to start new players in an environment in which they were familiar.


Must be noted that currnetly all characters start at the CQ by defect. And if they kenw where are the forums, surely they would be asking for "how to open the door". Lol

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#2510 - 2013-10-10 14:15:42 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:

I'm not reading 125 pages to find out, but is this new siphon device just a test to see if we can get avatars to suck in station? I can't wait for the eventual day of players walking around station and doing who knows what.


Regarding the new anchorable items such as the new siphon device etc I get the feeling this may be the beginning of a process to fix POSes and the roles & permissions used to control them. ie Make a whole new system separate from the one we currently use then remove the current one and slot in the new. I have absolutely no idea how these things are programmed though so I daresay that is not easy or even possible. Smile

" They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#2511 - 2013-10-10 15:53:04 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
It'll be interesting to see if it has a discernible effect given that one of the original intentions of the CQ was to start new players in an environment in which they were familiar.


Yes.

A major barrier for new players apporaching EVE is just the strife to identify with the character and feel it as unique. This in EVE requires a different effort and new players are not used to this; the identification player -> avatar sounds more natural for newcomers in respect of player -> spaceship; it's a solid standard in the MMORPG culture and is a equirement for the imemrsion feeling MMORPG players expect in respect of games like WoT and so on where is not a need.

The idea behind CQ (as first element of WiS) was just to fill this gap. Also, the idea for CQ was to configure them as content delivery to smooth the famous EVE learning curve; as to say "make people to get used to EVE, to learn some basic, to discover gameplay opportunities trough ingame interactions instead of forcing them to spend days on some PDF, Excell sheet or IRC channel.

This idea behind CQ was good but of course needed to be progressively extended and linked to a proper WiS envinroment to work properly.

Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#2512 - 2013-10-10 16:05:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Trii Seo wrote:

Hell, even the damned monocle became something of a wealth status symbol. "HEY LOOK I'M SO RICH I CAN THROW A BILLION INTO THE SHITTER HA-HA!". I'll kind of repeat myself saying - CCP should flip the "enabled" tags on all other NEX things and just see what players do with them.


What do you do with clothes?

They will not "enable" it for everyone to buy with aurum, it will be the "special occasion" clothing for special occasions, like the stuff that was shipped with 10 years collectors edition.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#2513 - 2013-10-10 16:08:24 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Flamespar wrote:
It'll be interesting to see if it has a discernible effect given that one of the original intentions of the CQ was to start new players in an environment in which they were familiar.


Yes.

A major barrier for new players apporaching EVE is just the strife to identify with the character and feel it as unique. This in EVE requires a different effort and new players are not used to this; the identification player -> avatar sounds more natural for newcomers in respect of player -> spaceship; it's a solid standard in the MMORPG culture and is a equirement for the imemrsion feeling MMORPG players expect in respect of games like WoT and so on where is not a need.

The idea behind CQ (as first element of WiS) was just to fill this gap. Also, the idea for CQ was to configure them as content delivery to smooth the famous EVE learning curve; as to say "make people to get used to EVE, to learn some basic, to discover gameplay opportunities trough ingame interactions instead of forcing them to spend days on some PDF, Excell sheet or IRC channel.

This idea behind CQ was good but of course needed to be progressively extended and linked to a proper WiS envinroment to work properly.



Separating character from spaceship also serves as a good reminder that you are not, in fact, your ship. A ship and to some extent your pod are shells - expendable tools you will lose in your career.

Dying and returning to your environment without any penalties (sides from losing your ship/implants - but you are still alive. It's still the same evil you, just in a new 'shell') seems to reinforce that rather nicely.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#2514 - 2013-10-10 16:37:37 UTC
The new cybernetic arm thing indicates someone's still playing with WiS, even if it's just character creator stuff. So that's nice.

I'm confused why some of you are pro-WiS but anti-DUST/Valkyrie. WiS is the perfect glue to tie all three properties together.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#2515 - 2013-10-10 16:57:03 UTC
Crasniya wrote:
The new cybernetic arm thing indicates someone's still playing with WiS, even if it's just character creator stuff. So that's nice.

I'm confused why some of you are pro-WiS but anti-DUST/Valkyrie. WiS is the perfect glue to tie all three properties together.


"Mystery Code holders will be receiving the exclusive ‘Phanca’ Cybernetic Arm to sport on their characters."

Although I have been tempted by the Collectors edition, I doubt I will pay out.

As for being anti-dust/Valkyrie. I don't think anyone is specifically anti them. I would love to have Dust for PC for example, and I will get Valkyrie when it comes out for sure. What I am against is CCP spreading themselves too thin, which is what they are doing. Especially as the only one of their other projects that has actually been released (Dust) doesn't yet appear to be pulling it's weight.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#2516 - 2013-10-10 17:03:39 UTC
We don't have numbers for how much DUST rakes in, but people pay between $20-60 a month to be fully boosted. A lot less people do it, no doubt, but those that do are giving CCP more money per user than EVE players are.

They indicated the cybernetic arm, like the tattoos, will eventually have non-exclusive variants released later. They want to really prop up the CE, so they seem to be giving it early access to a bunch of things coming later. That being said, you'll be able to ISK buy them for sure, Collector's Edition owners who don't care about avatars or won't use the arm.

I think CCP's trying to figure out how to not be Rovio. Angry Birds is great, but Rovio's a one-trick pony. They've shown an inability to generate success with additional products. A game studio has to expand to survive. Valkyrie is something they surely weren't planning for. But they had to capitalize on the attention and awards they got from showing the tech demo. Though apparently now Elite Dangerous is going to support Oculus too, so CCP better be prepared to compete there.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#2517 - 2013-10-10 17:18:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Crasniya wrote:
We don't have numbers for how much DUST rakes in, but people pay between $20-60 a month to be fully boosted. A lot less people do it, no doubt, but those that do are giving CCP more money per user than EVE players are.


http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust

$20-60 isn't much when there are so few people using the product. Takes a look at the active numbers of player, only a tiny portion of those will be paying. That's how free to play games work. Also, active numbers are getting worse.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#2518 - 2013-10-10 17:24:50 UTC
They mentioned other models of this arm thing being made available later to players, so yeah - they're working on addons.

And good, really - the more scifi/uniqueness you can put in the part other players can see (your portrait) is neat, especially when it's not done at a huge cost of the rest of the game.

That said, actual WiS can wait until the spaceship game is sorted and amazing, even more amazing than it is now. It has issues that need to be fixed, major issues.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Crasniya
The Aussienauts
#2519 - 2013-10-10 18:35:16 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
That said, actual WiS can wait until the spaceship game is sorted and amazing, even more amazing than it is now. It has issues that need to be fixed, major issues.


It really can't wait. Spaceship gameplay is fine. They've wasted the last three expansions doing nothing but minor tweaks to it. Meanwhile, they have multiple incoming games producing more elaborate products that are directly competing with them.

Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - soraya@biomassed.net

raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#2520 - 2013-10-10 23:18:34 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
Thetabetalpha wrote:
You guys think they are capable to deliver any avatar content?

We don't have to think or Imagine™. There is already avatar content even in the first module of the game (Hangar module). Back the game, download it and see for yourself.

Trii Seo wrote:

I'd be more, if at all, impressed by renders and animation demonstrations.


https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13310-Citizen-Con-2013-Live-Stream

CitizenCon demonstration going live in 10 minutes. Tune in and check it out.