Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Mostly because it's the weakest in terms of effect.

An unbonused target painter II adds 30% to the target's sig radius (37.5% at Signature Focusing V). An unbonused web slows a target by 60%, which provides almost double benefit as far as the turret and missile hit/damage calculations are concerned.

In addition to the effect on shooting, a target painter makes it faster to lock the target. A web stops the target from escaping and grants range control to the attacking side. In most situations, both the primary and secondary benefit of a web are superior to a target painter. The only thing going for the target painter is the much longer effective range.

(Also, there's a visibility question. The effect of a web or ECM is obvious - it "feels" like it's doing something. The effect of a target painter is often only visible with careful analysis.)

I have a gut feeling that the RHML would be used in mission running much more often then cruise missiles...

we shall see

Actually, looking at the damage bonuses (pure damage or ROF) of the various missile BS hulls the only one it matters on is the phoon. Look at effective launchers:

• Raven - 6 x 1.25 (ROF) = 8
• Scorpion - 4 (no bonuses) = 4
• RNI - 8 (no bonuses) = 8
• SNI - 6 x 1.25 (dmg) = 8
• Typhoon - 6 x 1.375 (dmg) = 8.25
• Golem - 4 x 2.0 (dmg) = 8 (only if the role bonus is adjusted to include RHML)

All the BS missile boats basically have the exact same damage, projection, and application when considering RHML. The remaining bonuses would be the only reason to choose between them. That makes for a bland hull selection process and invalidates most of what makes each of these hulls unique.

Are you unable to read?


We are not talkign from WHERE the missile s come. But TO WHERE they hit

And yes, the start are known and these new laucnhers do a LOT more Dps than normal heavy launchers.

RoF bonus applies different from what you have noted for Raven. What you have in there is 25% damage bonus. Rof bonus would be
Raven - 6 / (1-0.25) = 8 which just happens to end up at the same "effective launchers" number in the present case of 6 launchers.

And yes - I was eyeballing a navy phoon to try it out with these after the changes. I dont expect it to be particularly stellar but who knows - it seems worth testing as it does not seem to be a particularly bad platform either at first glance. That is then for PvE purposes atm.

I agree. The overall applied DPS could wind up the same, but it would be nice to have compelling weapon based hull bonuses playing a part in which hull you choose when fitting RHMLs. The SNI will simply be a better ship as you have the same applied damage output as the other BS hulls but better resists. The other hulls simply have 1-2 non-functional hull bonuses.

The only reason to use the RLML is for anti-frigate purposes and sniping (...because they have a longer range than heavy missiles. If that isn't a clear sign that HML is garbage, you're blind). Light missiles are not particularly high damage, but they will catch just about any frigate and apply damage well. Heavy missiles will do a mediocre amount of damage to cruisers... if they aren't moving fast. They are easily outrun and no amount of pilot skill can change how well that damage is applied, whereas with turrets you have the potential to hit any size of target if you position yourself well. This is a big part of why multiple sizes of turrets are useful, because they are adaptations on the same weapon and allow the pilot a wider range of applications depending on how they want to fly the ship and use the weapon. I.E. tracking on 220mm autocannons is better than on 425mm's, but with a spot of range and damage as a compromise.

Missiles are almost completely unaffected by the piloting of the ship from which they originate or the launcher that fires them, meaning that your skill queue is really what determines how effective they will be and not the conditions under which they are launched (and tbh missile skills don't make nearly enough of a difference when compared to how much of an effect tracking skills make when combined with good piloting). Because of this, quickly spitting out more of the abomination known as heavy missiles doesn't give the pilot more options or more effective damage, it just spams crappy missiles.

Cruise missiles do about the same effective damage to cruiser targets, have WAAAY better range and are much, much faster than heavies. Fitting out a raven with RHML's on Singularity with four BCS, good missiles skills and T2 damage ammo gives me just under 600 dps at 45km and unbonused damage application. I don't see a single purpose that a RHML can accomplish in fleet, solo or PvE combat that isn't served better by using cruise missiles.

Heavy missiles are completely useless, and making them launch faster doesn't change that. Give heavy missiles some serious love and this might actually get used, otherwise it's just a waste of code.

However to end on a positive note, I do like the attention that missiles have been getting recently. They really need some help. Keep it up, Rise!

600dps is more than what a HAM Drake will do... And the HAM Drake don't shoot at 45km...

And as numbers showed in this thread, RHML will still do twice the dps of cruise missiles to cruisers and below.

as casual missioner
there are some L4 missions that pop in my mind where RHML would clear room faster than Torp/Cruise
Rogue Drone harassment, and Wildcat Strike is good example

Then there are missions where RHML damage application play small role comparing to raw DPS needed
Gone Berserk is good example as it are just wave by wave of BS.

Loaded up my Cerberus

with rapid light missle launcher and navy missles.. the fit window with my skills (mostly lv 4s) shows 304.2 dps… 1263 salvo, range 77km

with heavy missle launcher with navy missles, the fit window with my skills shows 397.0 dps, 2061 salvo, range 115km


using this as a base line (im rounding numbers so do not blow a gasket)

the cerb with RLML will do 300 dps to cruisers and 300 dps to frigates

the cerb with a HML will do 400 dps to cruisers and about 200 dps to frigates



so, using rough numbers I loaded up a standard scorpion (since it has zero modifiers to missile weapon systems) and put some cruise launchers and heavy launchers to get a general feel

1x cruise missle launcher II with navy ammo =
582 dmg,
rof 11.7 s,
dps 49.7
exp velocity 101.43,
exp radius 250m
range 108km

1x heavy launcher II with navy ammo =
209 dmg
rof 8.49
dps 24.7
exp velocity 119.07
expl radius 106
range 54km

assumeing slight increase in rate of fire, figure I would be around 5.0 s rough guess, then I would be doing 209 dmg, 41.8 dps

due to explosive velocity and explosive radius...
vs battleship target, both systems would do near full damage,(with cruise missle doing more damage)
vs a cruiser sized target the RHML will do more damage then the cruise missile

so nice round numbers, again

cruise missile vs battleship = 50 dps,
cruise missile vs cruiser = 20 dps (possibly 30 dps w/ target painter making cruise equal to heavy in that regard)
rapid heavy vs battleship = 40 dps,
rapid heavy vs cruiser = 30 dps