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[Rubicon] Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers

First post First post
Author
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#401 - 2013-11-01 12:58:44 UTC
Still be nice if they got the missile velocity bonuses i.e. range.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#402 - 2013-11-01 15:14:04 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Still be nice if they got the missile velocity bonuses i.e. range.

Definitely. But with three hydraulic or rocket fuel rigs, max skills and an implant these will still easily hit out to 100km.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

hujciwdupe22
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#403 - 2013-11-01 15:48:03 UTC
now give the naga 8 launcher slots
hujciwdupe22
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#404 - 2013-11-01 15:52:34 UTC
that would actually make sense,

we would have fallof nados, blaster taloses, lazor oracles and missile nagas,
Imo looks realle nice across the board, each race at its best
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#405 - 2013-11-01 15:55:56 UTC
hujciwdupe22 wrote:
now give the naga 8 launcher slots

With the update to cruise missiles, I think this is more feasible.

Caldari Battlecruiser skill bonus per level:
• 5% explosion velocity
• 10% cruise missile and torpedo velocity

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Justin Cody
War Firm
#406 - 2013-11-02 18:43:22 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
New RHML Raven > all Cruisers/Battlecruisers?

Also its kinda unfair that Turrets dont get Large Weapons with Medium Ammunition for example Dual Heavy Pulse Lasers.



How is that unfair? Blasters already have the best tracking...electrons hit really well with paint or web and autos track insanely well as well. Dual 650's btw are equivalent to to dual heavy pulse so stfu.

you are just wrong.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#407 - 2013-11-03 18:08:22 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
How is that unfair?

Each weapon system has unique advantages and inherent drawbacks. Those that complain about missiles have usually never used them extensively.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Frozen Chief
Doomheim
#408 - 2013-11-04 15:11:42 UTC
This thread + cruise missile thread + manner in which missles track = train missiles gogogo
Moragrine
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#409 - 2013-11-05 10:03:44 UTC
Is there list of ships that will actually have some bonus for this missile type? I found just Raven ...

And please reconsider at least missile velocity bonus to be applied, where present, for this missiles to add option for sniper fit and use of MJD.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#410 - 2013-11-05 18:51:57 UTC
Moragrine wrote:
Is there list of ships that will actually have some bonus for this missile type? I found just Raven ...

And please reconsider at least missile velocity bonus to be applied, where present, for this missiles to add option for sniper fit and use of MJD.

Here's the short list: Raven (+25% rate of fire), Scorpion Navy (+25% rate of fire), Typhoon (+25% rate of fire), Typhoon Fleet (+37.5% damage). Apparently the new Golem Marauder does not receive a +100% damage bonus to RHMLs (somewhat disappointing, and kills the class for me).

Many of us have asked for the missile velocity bonus (or at least a partial missile velocity bonus), but since CCP has chosen not to respond (or even comment) - it seems like RHMLs are somewhat set in stone. Just run with three hydraulic rigs and that will give you a +55% (stacking-penalized) missile velocity of between 40-45% with a range out to around 90km.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Abdullah Bahdoon
Doomheim
#411 - 2013-11-07 02:42:31 UTC
I am amazed by the number of posts demanding further nerfs to missile systems. There are already plenty of them that still don't work as intended and need some love : rockets, heavy missiles, torpedoes, defenders, FoF and capital sized ones.
People just simply forget how much SP you have to invest in missiles when compared to a weapon system from gunnery tree (not to mention the upcoming Rubicon change that will allow you to train for whatever suites you just like missiles do), and after all of that there are only a relatively limited number of ships in the game that benefits from them.
As for TDs affecting them... Baltec1 already mentioned , there are plenty of ewar systems that affect them (ECM, sensor damps) combined with smartbombs and theoretically defender missiles, so I say the hell with that. If those of you who complained in here that there are OP still think so , then simply just train for missiles and use them as others already do, no one is keeping you from doing so.
Regarding RHMLs, i would have liked to first see a fix to heavy missiles before that.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#412 - 2013-11-07 06:08:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Abdullah Bahdoon wrote:
Regarding RHMLs, i would have liked to first see a fix to heavy missiles before that.

Reduce the power grid and CPU requirements so that these can be used to some extent on heavy cruisers, strategic cruisers and battlecruisers as well. Then heavy missiles really don't need any adjustments.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Abdullah Bahdoon
Doomheim
#413 - 2013-11-07 14:34:39 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Abdullah Bahdoon wrote:
Regarding RHMLs, i would have liked to first see a fix to heavy missiles before that.

Reduce the power grid and CPU requirements so that these can be used to some extent on heavy cruisers, strategic cruisers and battlecruisers as well. Then heavy missiles really don't need any adjustments.


It makes sense, imo i see no reason why we shouldn't be able to fit them to the mentioned ships above.
Sparkus Volundar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#414 - 2013-11-08 13:56:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Sparkus Volundar
CCP Rise wrote:

The sticky part is hitting the numbers just right so that they are better damage output against smaller targets than cruise or torpedo launchers but not so high that they become the right choice in almost all cases. Here's where the numbers are at now, but they are certainly up for negotiation.


Dear Rise,

Thank you for the opportunity to comment. The following comes with the standard "IMO" caveat. I think the problems that can be experienced with balancing a new weapon system like this are compounded, or perhaps created, by the following design choices:

1. Cruise missiles feel over-buffed when their damage application and range are compared to Torps.
2. HMLs were heavily nerfed relative to HAMLs and RLMLs (this is an observation rather than implied criticism).
3. Long-ranged, medium turrets have been buffed without revisiting HMLs.

I think those three issues make balancing RHMLs difficult. I don’t think changing the reload+RoF times for RHMLs and RLMLs without revisiting the points above would be the best way forward.


CCP Rise wrote:

  • Expands the fitting options for battleship sized missile users (currently there's not as much flexibility as turret systems get)


  • Sorry for noob question but please could you elaborate on this point? As far as I am aware, there are no ships with bonuses to under-sized turrets. I think there is greater turret ammo diversity but as far as I am aware, they don't carry tracking bonuses equivalent to shooting from an under-sized turret.

    .

    Marcus Walkuris
    Aww yeahhh
    #415 - 2013-11-08 20:38:44 UTC
    Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
    I don't see how you think they do 80% of cruise to, when I had cruise on a RS I did over 700DPS, when I put on the RHMLs then went down to 500 or so, just by changes missiles, seems a bit less then 80% I'd say. and they don't do close to Torps. ALL I'm saying is they need the bonuses missile BS give, like the RLMs get from cruisers, you can't have cruisers give bonuss to RLMs but BSs not give theirs to the RHMLs, come on that makes no since at all. Do it right or don't do it at all.


    I hope you don't mean a RattleSnake since cruise missiles make up about a 200dps at best, and drones do the rest.
    If your dps dropped to 500 your drone skills must show 0.5 mill SP total.
    That said I think missile tracking needs revised really bad possibly a complete overhaul, it doesn't really add anything at this point and has not for too long already.
    Anytime missiles make an impact to the point of being chosen over guns it has much MUCH more to do with hull bonuses then the weapon-systems inherent strengths.
    In other words anemic weapon-system completely supported by hull bonuses, just make the track better by default I dont know I'll just shut up..
    Batelle
    Filthy Peasants
    #416 - 2013-11-08 20:42:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
    Arthur Aihaken wrote:
    hujciwdupe22 wrote:
    now give the naga 8 launcher slots

    With the update to cruise missiles, I think this is more feasible.

    Caldari Battlecruiser skill bonus per level:
    • 5% explosion velocity
    • 10% cruise missile and torpedo velocity


    At the risk of offending the sensibilities of missile users that feel unloved, I think a RLML Naga with dual application bonuses would op as hell.

    EDIT: NVM thats a range bonus. Meh.

    "**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

    Never forget.

    Mer88
    Royal Amarr Institute
    Amarr Empire
    #417 - 2013-11-08 20:45:54 UTC
    Marcus Walkuris wrote:
    Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
    I don't see how you think they do 80% of cruise to, when I had cruise on a RS I did over 700DPS, when I put on the RHMLs then went down to 500 or so, just by changes missiles, seems a bit less then 80% I'd say. and they don't do close to Torps. ALL I'm saying is they need the bonuses missile BS give, like the RLMs get from cruisers, you can't have cruisers give bonuss to RLMs but BSs not give theirs to the RHMLs, come on that makes no since at all. Do it right or don't do it at all.


    I hope you don't mean a RattleSnake since cruise missiles make up about a 200dps at best, and drones do the rest.
    If your dps dropped to 500 your drone skills must show 0.5 mill SP total.
    That said I think missile tracking needs revised really bad possibly a complete overhaul, it doesn't really add anything at this point and has not for too long already.
    Anytime missiles make an impact to the point of being chosen over guns it has much MUCH more to do with hull bonuses then the weapon-systems inherent strengths.
    In other words anemic weapon-system completely supported by hull bonuses, just make the track better by default I dont know I'll just shut up..


    cruise missiles on rattlesnake do 380 dps with navy cruise and 450ish dps with fury if you use 3 x faction bcs. with 2 x 5% implants.

    Marcus Walkuris
    Aww yeahhh
    #418 - 2013-11-08 21:12:38 UTC
    Mer88 wrote:
    cruise missiles on rattlesnake do 380 dps with navy cruise and 450ish dps with fury if you use 3 x faction bcs. with 2 x 5% implants.


    Alright and it still wouldn't explain these numbers.
    I wouldn't know and am sure you know what you're talking about, I just didn't see the realistic scenario where people load up faction anything into the Rattler with nothing but a velocity bonus and 4 launcher slots.
    Maybe people choose to PvP in a rattler I haven't come across them yet.
    I guess its an EFT only scenario?
    Enlighten me ohh wise one ^^..