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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1381 - 2013-10-08 18:55:07 UTC
Tzar Sinak wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:


As the Gallente-Amarr hybrid ship, the main theme is armor and drones. The energy weapon bonus is meant to encourage laser use by partially nullifying their biggest drawback without making lasers feel compulsory as opposed to other weapons.


If that is the case why can't missile launchers be fitted? Amarr use missiles.

Just enjoy the new SoE ships. Lasers need love, too.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1382 - 2013-10-08 19:15:42 UTC
Tzar Sinak wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:


As the Gallente-Amarr hybrid ship, the main theme is armor and drones. The energy weapon bonus is meant to encourage laser use by partially nullifying their biggest drawback without making lasers feel compulsory as opposed to other weapons.


If that is the case why can't missile launchers be fitted? Amarr use missiles.


near unbonused HAMs and heavies...pass.
James Akachi
Perkone
Caldari State
#1383 - 2013-10-08 19:36:32 UTC
Zaitsev Sabezan wrote:
I'll leave the dps argument to the EFT warriors, but i do feel pretty strongly that the virus strength should be kept at 5. The current cov-ops ships would be completely replaced by these if they are given +10 virus strength.

Why would i fly a buzzard when i have a larger cargo bay, substantial combat ability and equal hacking abilities in the Astero? Yes the buzzard has a slightly stronger scan strength, but that is negligible at best, and negated if using a sisters launcher/probes.

I want to keep seeing buzzards and helioses flying around in space. As amazing as the new models are, i don't want to sacrifice an entire class of ships in an attempt to make the SOE ones desirable. They already are that and more.

Because this frigate is not going to be 24M ISK in jita.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1384 - 2013-10-08 19:40:01 UTC
James Akachi wrote:
Zaitsev Sabezan wrote:
I'll leave the dps argument to the EFT warriors, but i do feel pretty strongly that the virus strength should be kept at 5. The current cov-ops ships would be completely replaced by these if they are given +10 virus strength.

Why would i fly a buzzard when i have a larger cargo bay, substantial combat ability and equal hacking abilities in the Astero? Yes the buzzard has a slightly stronger scan strength, but that is negligible at best, and negated if using a sisters launcher/probes.

I want to keep seeing buzzards and helioses flying around in space. As amazing as the new models are, i don't want to sacrifice an entire class of ships in an attempt to make the SOE ones desirable. They already are that and more.

Because this frigate is not going to be 24M ISK in jita.



You sure?

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Osmon

NPC Kills 6420 141770

That's a lotta Sisters LP being farmed up.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1385 - 2013-10-08 19:42:23 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


You sure?

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Osmon

NPC Kills 6420 141770

That's a lotta Sisters LP being farmed up.


Damn right I have an alt there grinding a lot of the time.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1386 - 2013-10-08 19:47:44 UTC
James Akachi wrote:
Because this frigate is not going to be 24M ISK in jita.

It's probably going to be expensive... and worth it.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1387 - 2013-10-08 19:48:56 UTC
Even then, if they follow the same pirate bpc cost 80,000lp +20mill isk for the cruiser assuming 1k isk per LP the minimum cost would be 100mill. The same rate for the frigate it would be minimum 30mill.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1388 - 2013-10-08 19:50:24 UTC
Quote:
How's this for better stats?


Astero

Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +10(+5) Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists
OR
+5m^3 drone bay per level

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to drone hitpoints
10% bonus to drone hitpoints and optimal range

Slot layout: 3H(+1), 4M, 3L(-1); 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 480(-80) / 660(+60) / 620(+20)
Capacitor (amount) : 430
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 35
Cargo Capacity: 210


Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
Role Bonus: 37.5% bonus to Energy Turret tracking and optimal range
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 3 turrets (-1) , 0 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1450(-500) / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550


What these changes accomplish:

ASTERO:
The Astero is made a better frigate overall - with the loss of a lowslot, there is now potential for better drone application and better damage. It should be great for doing the lowest level complexes and blitzing L1s and L2 in hostile space - maybe even better performance in wormhole space! Since there's no gun bonus and not too much tank, it won't be overpowered when it comes to PvP. The +5 virus strength will be a welcome bonus to those of us who do sites in nullsec (this can be changed back if it overshadows other ships too much). The loss of shield HP makes it so this can not be turned into an OP PvP brawler because of 4 mid slots.

STRATIOS:
The loss of a turret slot on the Stratios minimizes the potential for the neutron fits that some people think are OP (despite them being complete glass cannons)- yet damage application will be better for PvE'ers, making this ship more capable in PvE and less capable in PvP. The loss of shield HP prevents the efficiency of pure shield gank fits.


Requoting this as it got quite a bit of positive feedback - of course, the virus strength is up to CCP.

I personally think the frigate should have +10 and the cruiser +5, as the frigate is more of an exploration role and the croiser more for DED sites and combat.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#1389 - 2013-10-08 19:50:36 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Even then, if they follow the same pirate bpc cost 80,000lp +20mill isk for the cruiser assuming 1k isk per LP the minimum cost would be 100mill. The same rate for the frigate it would be minimum 30mill.

Don't forget the battleship.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Hadon Radin
Corsair Navy
#1390 - 2013-10-08 19:50:37 UTC
I think a lot of people are trying to get a ship that will excel at PVP. These are SoE ships, made by a benevolent group who want to foster exploration and safety in the univers. Building more deadly ships won't help that goal. Yes, they need to be able to defend themselves, but to be able to excel in attacking others is contrary to the goals of the faction.

So, I agree with the idea to add a high slot to the frig, and I agree the cruiser could lose a high slot (not that I would want it to, but it makes more sense considering the faction it is designed by). The higher exploration bonuses make sense too: better virus strength, maybe per level of covops skill, or keyed to some other skill like hacking; Tracking, or optimal range bonuses make sense, a little, but built in interdiction nullifier, or stabs would make more sense. The idea is to be able to explore, not to be able to hunt down other players, so I get why combat probe launchers don't fit.

Having the ability to use so many different drones and the size of the drone bays and bandwidth is awesome. This faction cruiser beats anything I can do with my T3 in that respect, and so it is more versatile, but still not a PVP ship, which is as it should be.

Of course, it should be able to cruise anywhere; null sec, WH space, as well as high sec, with some degree of impunity, assuming the pilot is not an idiot. For that, the ability to escape a scram or warp disruptor is more important than the ability to crash in on a pirate hunter.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1391 - 2013-10-08 19:52:00 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Even then, if they follow the same pirate bpc cost 80,000lp +20mill isk for the cruiser assuming 1k isk per LP the minimum cost would be 100mill. The same rate for the frigate it would be minimum 30mill.

1k isk per LP may be hard to maintain though with a highsec lvl 4 LP source.
Streya Jormagdnir
Alexylva Paradox
#1392 - 2013-10-08 20:08:09 UTC
I'm a wspace pilot, and pretty much a dedicated scout (I'm training max scanning skills, and I consider scanning perfectly viable for a main rather than an alt). I am heavily invested in scanning and cloaking, so I hope I can offer some insight....


These ships look great! I'd like to go over some cons/pros though. I'll start with the cons:

There are some minor drawbacks as compared to T2/T3 covert capable ships. For one, neither ship will get the targeting delay reduction or reactivation delay for their covert cloaks. This will make them vulnerable if they are decloaked and will force any pilot trying to use them for offensive purposes to decloak six seconds in advance before attacking. This puts the Stratios in line with Recons, though it leaves the Asteros in an awkward position of being unlike any other covert frigate in the game.

Additionally, neither ship is getting a CPU reduction for probe launchers, so I really can't see these things being used as combat probers (which I find odd, given how Sisters LP can buy expanded probe launchers). I would rather have a CPU reduction for probe launchers than a Virus strength bonus; virus strength can be improved with rigs whereas CPU rigs will not really make it viable to fit expanded probe launchers. Then again, these are supposedly non-combat vessels used for humanitarian purposes.

Now on to the pros:

These ships will offer more tank and DPS than is usually expected from covert ships. While not as tanky as T3s, with their huge drone bays they will definitely be able to put out more DPS (covert sub T3s are not renowned for their damage output). I look forward to these aspects. I'm imagining they will also be cheaper to buy and fit out than a T3 (seriously, there are like 2k people in Osmon farming that single hisec L4 agent, supply will be high!), so I'm eager to see how they'll shake up the wspace/cloaky gang PvP meta.


tl;dr traditional covops/Recons/T3s will still be better for combat probing, but the Stratios will offer more damage and tank than Recons typically do and the Astero might be able to fend off the AC/rocket-fit SBs that often haunt lowsec exploration sites.

I am also a human, straggling between the present world... and our future. I am a regulator, a coordinator, one who is meant to guide the way.

Destination Unreachable: the worst Wspace blog ever
Maenth
The Thirteen Provinces
#1393 - 2013-10-08 20:21:28 UTC
It seems strange to me that the cruiser's drone bonus is 1/2 of the frigate.

More than that, I'm a bit uncomfortable that a cruiser so easily has a much larger drone bay than Dominix ships... or, thinking that the Dominix will have a smaller drone bay than a cruiser. It just doesn't sound right.

Otherwise, they seem pretty nifty =)

Drones. Drones are a means to an end. An end to the ruthless Caldari 'progress' machines. An end to the barbaric 'redemption' proposed by the Amarr. What they see as chaos shall be my perfect order, merely beyond their comprehension.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1394 - 2013-10-08 20:25:09 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Even then, if they follow the same pirate bpc cost 80,000lp +20mill isk for the cruiser assuming 1k isk per LP the minimum cost would be 100mill. The same rate for the frigate it would be minimum 30mill.

1k isk per LP may be hard to maintain though with a highsec lvl 4 LP source.

Yeah, they could use navy LP prices, 100k LP +20mill isk for a cruiser and 50k LP +10mill for the frigate.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1395 - 2013-10-08 21:31:17 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Just for clarity the rigs increase virus coherence, virus strength comes from ship bonus and analysers.there are no rigs for strength.
If strength could come from rigs and there were tech 1 and tech 2 rigs that had the calibration to fit them then it wouldn't be an issue.
There is no way that these ships can currently be upgraded to match a covert ops.
Oh if cruiser was 100 mil and the frigate 30-35, would be very nice.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Tsukiko Mora
Doomheim
#1396 - 2013-10-08 21:33:59 UTC
(Possible) Random idea:

Remove the turret slots from all the SoE ship and increase ship tank and drone effectiveness instead.

I personally feel that places them better inline with the philosophy of the SoE as a whole.
Streya Jormagdnir
Alexylva Paradox
#1397 - 2013-10-08 21:47:47 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Just for clarity the rigs increase virus coherence, virus strength comes from ship bonus and analysers.there are no rigs for strength.
If strength could come from rigs and there were tech 1 and tech 2 rigs that had the calibration to fit them then it wouldn't be an issue.
There is no way that these ships can currently be upgraded to match a covert ops.
Oh if cruiser was 100 mil and the frigate 30-35, would be very nice.


Fair point. I'm mostly analyzing these ships from a PvP/combat scanning perspective. For site running in known space these look very solid, in any case. Keep in mind that for kspace relic/data sites the difficulty of the mini-game is much lower, barring some nullsec sites. But then, if you're taking one of these out to nullsec for hacking sites you'd probably be better off with an interdiction nullifier/emergent locus sub T3.

I am also a human, straggling between the present world... and our future. I am a regulator, a coordinator, one who is meant to guide the way.

Destination Unreachable: the worst Wspace blog ever
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1398 - 2013-10-08 21:59:16 UTC
Streya Jormagdnir wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Just for clarity the rigs increase virus coherence, virus strength comes from ship bonus and analysers.there are no rigs for strength.
If strength could come from rigs and there were tech 1 and tech 2 rigs that had the calibration to fit them then it wouldn't be an issue.
There is no way that these ships can currently be upgraded to match a covert ops.
Oh if cruiser was 100 mil and the frigate 30-35, would be very nice.


Fair point. I'm mostly analyzing these ships from a PvP/combat scanning perspective. For site running in known space these look very solid, in any case. Keep in mind that for kspace relic/data sites the difficulty of the mini-game is much lower, barring some nullsec sites. But then, if you're taking one of these out to nullsec for hacking sites you'd probably be better off with an interdiction nullifier/emergent locus sub T3.

Thanks for your reply, you are of course correct interdiction nullifier would be a great advantage,
Theres those of us who are very excited with the devs proposals, we are looking for something to explore throughout eve, not as capable as the best combat ship not as immune to bubbles etc but something that can let us go everywhere and explore.Not without some risk, we accept that trade off. We won't have the opportunity to swap ships so need to be able to do the core functionality.
I put a proposal in post 1382 that should satisfy most without making it overpowered or overshadow other ships.
Hope it satisfies everyone.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
DragonZer0
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#1399 - 2013-10-08 22:21:07 UTC
Pve wise as in running sites and what not I don't see much of a use for the frig or cruiser. In that aspect I'm going to get a co-ops to run sites, As for Pve combat tengu ftw or another t3 cruiser.

Pvp wise that a whole new ball game there.
Frig makes an excellent hunter that can put out good dps while having a decent tank to back it up in-case what you snag on a site is way out of your range to attack w/o back up getting to you in time.

The Cruiser on the other hand I could care less about the hacking bones, the cloaking + 125 drone bandwidth means i can bring something close to a stealth bomber dps and still have a large tank to back it up with out the targeting delay
AlmightyJoygasm
Tryhards
#1400 - 2013-10-08 23:33:28 UTC  |  Edited by: AlmightyJoygasm
IHMO the frigate could use the following.

Astero:

Needs longer targeting range, at least 40-45km (about avaerage for the cov ops)
Non Static scan probe strenth, should be 10% per covert ops level (comparable to cov ops)
+ 10 virus strength (comparable to cov ops)
A third Hi Slot (comparable to cov ops)
+ 2 warp strength (if only :-)) (proably the one real stand out stat to make this ship unique)
Assuming at least 2 rigs
Sub warp velocity of at least 375 m/s (Above average when compared to cov ops but still less than a cheetah)

Some covert ops still have better attributes than the above, so its not like this would be too far fetched (apart from the +2 warp strength mabey :-)

EDIT: Has anybody mentioned cloak re-activation delay yet? Assume this would be 5 seconds?