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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Author
TheFace Asano
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-10-02 15:59:22 UTC
The cruiser is really attractive. The guns are just not even necessary as you can use 5x bonus sentry drones and enough bay to have several sets / damage types and some salvage / lights / mediums. All you need is a single gun to pull with and let your sentry drones do the work. Plenty of mids and highs for utility. I would like 6 lows, but that is probably asking too much and pushes on the faction / t1 / t2 drone cruisers too much. Really great design.

I will say the Gila needs a little love after this to look attractive next to this.

Fully combat fit this thing is going to have some serious bite as well, throw 4x AC and 5x garde II....
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#62 - 2013-10-02 16:01:30 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Grarr Dexx wrote:
More bandwidth on a cruiser than on any battleship? Are the rest of the pirate factions going to be following this design trend? This is just better than the Gila in every way.


You may be correct ... but pirate ships are before balance pass. So this Gila may be diffrent from new Gila.


Confirming new Gila will be different and hopefully very cool.


Tease! X

Are pirate ship tweaks coming this winter, or afterwards? Smile
Drodecas
the Goose Flock
#63 - 2013-10-02 16:01:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Drodecas
Do you have the Warp speed stats for the two? as it will become quite important.

And cap bonuses on a weapon system... didn't we all agree that we dislike those? can't you give it something that makes you actualy fit lasers instead of projectiles...

Can you edit the drone dps to like 7.5% per level, this ship is too good...

and don't say that you balance this with making stuff like the gila better, the last 1.5 year we have seen some power creep, ind I dont like where this is heading.

just me that dont want frigates with 2k dps 3 years from now?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2013-10-02 16:05:33 UTC
Drodecas wrote:
Do you have the Warp speed stats for the two? as it will become quite important.

And cap bonuses on a weapon system... didn't we all agree that we dislike those? can't you give it something that makes you actualy fit lasers instead of projectiles...




Bahhh check the dps of both options at 20 km. AC is 75 dps (with no damage mods) and Pulse lasers is 166 dps

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kasutra
No Vacancies
Wardec Mechanics
#65 - 2013-10-02 16:06:55 UTC
As someone with Amarr and Gallente cruiser 5 and SoE LP, TY CCP. Lol

Not seeing the cruiser's highs being used for lasers. Usefulness of a cap use bonus aside, this is a ship that near-demands a cloak and a probe launcher, and really likes DLAs too. With the lack of excess lows for heatsinks... yeah. That bonus isn't going to turn it into a laser platform.
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Perkone
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-10-02 16:07:58 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
On the cpu issue: I think the ship is so cpu limited, that people will be forced into fitting autocannons instead of lasers, particularly if you want to hunt ratters in it (cloak + combat probes is already most of your cpu)


Exactly this.

This ship has 500CPU with fitting skills, you need 364 for cloak, probe launcher and long point if you t2 fit the thing, leaving you with a measly 136 to fill 12 slots with a tank, weapons, utility. For a faction cruiser hull, that's KINDA garbage.

It either needs a fitting bonus to probe launchers or to the cloak, unless you simply don't want it to fulfill a hunter/killer pvp role without resorting to major fitting compromises in which case you should plainly state it.

No sig.

CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#67 - 2013-10-02 16:09:13 UTC
Quote:
Can I ask somethign...? you intend to visit the recons before or after the pirate ships?


Not sure yet on order, but both sooner than later I think.

@ccp_rise

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#68 - 2013-10-02 16:11:03 UTC
In case it got missed, can you confirm the resist profiles for the ships? They are normal t1 gallente resists, not t2 hac or something silly?
Kari Juptris
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-10-02 16:11:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Kari Juptris
From a pure data/relic exploration perspective the racial covops frigates still look to have a significant leg up. Anyone planning on just doing data/relic may want to just stick to their favorite covops.

Covops frigs enjoy an extra +10% flight speed per level, +5 extra virus strength, and better potential + probe scan strength (+10% per level vs static 37.5%). The virus strength bonus is marginal right up until it's amazing when you're hacking one of those darn restoration + virus strength weakening containers. The flight time is a nice bonus just to speed things up. Scan strength you can take or leave depending on your skills.

My Cheetah and I will keep fighting the good fight.

But then again these are general purpose ships so vov
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
Parasitic Legion.
#70 - 2013-10-02 16:12:24 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
In case it got missed, can you confirm the resist profiles for the ships? They are normal t1 gallente resists, not t2 hac or something silly?

Ask yourself this, what pirate ship has any kind of advanced resistances?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#71 - 2013-10-02 16:12:42 UTC
Yes, normal t1 resists.

We'll talk about the CPU thing. We've talked about it some already of course, but we'll spend some more time and make sure we're happy with it.

@ccp_rise

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#72 - 2013-10-02 16:14:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
In case it got missed, can you confirm the resist profiles for the ships? They are normal t1 gallente resists, not t2 hac or something silly?

Ask yourself this, what pirate ship has any kind of advanced resistances?


What ship has a 500 m^3 drone bay?

What covops ship has 800 dps?

These are new ships, and Rise and Fozzie are not slaves to tradition.


For the CPU issue: How about dropping the laser cap use bonus for a double damage laser bonus, halving the turrets to 2, and taking off a high slot? This gives the same number of effective turrets, but for half the cpu and cap use, as well as a utility high for probes.
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
Parasitic Legion.
#73 - 2013-10-02 16:16:31 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Yes, normal t1 resists.

We'll talk about the CPU thing. We've talked about it some already of course, but we'll spend some more time and make sure we're happy with it.

Please reconsider laser bonuses. The ship is a nice drone platform. Unbonused turrets allows for the variety that players like.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#74 - 2013-10-02 16:18:32 UTC
Kari Juptris wrote:
From a pure data/relic exploration perspective the racial covops frigates still look to have a significant leg up. Anyone planning on just doing data/relic may want to just stick to their favorite covops.

Covops frigs enjoy an extra +10% flight speed per level, +5 extra virus strength, and better potential + probe scan strength (+10% per level vs static 37.5%). The virus strength bonus is marginal right up until it's amazing when you're hacking one of those darn restoration + virus strength weakening containers. The flight time is a nice bonus just to speed things up. Scan strength you can take or leave depending on your skills.

My Cheetah and I will keep fighting the good fight.

But then again these are general purpose ships so vov


Considering what these are going to cost at the outset, the frigate won't be replacing my covops for pure exploration any time soon. The cruiser is lovely, though.
Archare
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-10-02 16:18:51 UTC
Are these going to be a standard LP store offering? or some wierd exploration BPC drop?
Azrael Rahl
Forsaken Reavers
#76 - 2013-10-02 16:19:24 UTC
These ships look great!

Some things I noticed right off.
-I do not see rig slots will these have 2 or 3 rig slots?
-Can I confirm that the Amarr and Gallente bonus are per level.( I know this is probably a given but it doesn't say.)


Astero
-would like another high or two on , so we can have a turret or two.
- the CPU is low so that means no expanded probe launchers for looking for hunting ships Sad which would be helpful for a frigate of this class in WH sapce.

I put this fit together so far

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II

1MN Afterburner II
Data Analyzer II
Relic Analyzer II
Cargo Scanner II

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

3k EHP, CPU is at 170 I would use something similar to this fit. for, maybe some smaller combat sites, and data and arch sites. A good replacement for my buzzard.

Stratios

I like this ship a lot, and have some ideas for fits

I put this together

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II

10MN Afterburner II
Data Analyzer II
Relic Analyzer II
Cargo Scanner II
[empty med slot]

Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II

Sits at 395.5 CPU

these fits i through together in a bit of a hurry... I am also still a beginner with fits. But I think the CPU will end up being a little low overall for these ships. Its manageable but would like to see more. Could always use overclocking rig as well.

let me know what everyone thinks.

Also will there be a battleship?

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
Parasitic Legion.
#77 - 2013-10-02 16:19:25 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Hosedna wrote:
Funny, I was expecting something more faction neutral, like the Gnosis, where you can choose pretty much what weapons system you want. Could've been interesting. And since there is no role bonus anyway on dmg or projection, most people will end up fitting autocannons ! So ... What about removing the laser capa bonus, and replacing it either by a bonus for each weapon system (and add 2 missiles points), or replacing it by another exploration bonus, and letting us choose our weapons ?



always amazes me how people liek to fit the weakest weapon system on this condition. AC have less dps than ANY weapon system, that is because minmatar ships have the ROF bonuses (strogner than damage ones). Lasers and blasters are far stronger when unbonused.

It is because autocannons don't use any cap.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#78 - 2013-10-02 16:19:58 UTC
Kari Juptris wrote:
From a pure data/relic exploration perspective the racial covops frigates still look to have a significant leg up. Anyone planning on just doing data/relic may want to just stick to their favorite covops.

Covops frigs enjoy an extra +10% flight speed per level, +5 extra virus strength, and better potential + probe scan strength (+10% per level vs static 37.5%). The virus strength bonus is marginal right up until it's amazing when you're hacking one of those darn restoration + virus strength weakening containers. The flight time is a nice bonus just to speed things up. Scan strength you can take or leave depending on your skills.

My Cheetah and I will keep fighting the good fight.

But then again these are general purpose ships so vov


But are they just general purpose ships? that's not the idea about pirate faction ships, is it? From the lore description they are all round exploration ships,able to scan down and get the goodies in a hostle environment, why gimp down its advantage by giving it T1 frigate virus strength, if it was only meant to do easystuff in hisec why bother at all?
Please CCP make it what it is meant to be, use covert ops skills if you must, but let it shine at exploring! The cruiser too!

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#79 - 2013-10-02 16:20:30 UTC
Hello CCP Rise,

Thank you for this AWESOME line of ships. However, there are some minor things that seem to ... not play out as you hope to.
For example, you state that they will support


CCP Rise wrote:

  • Drone and laser weapon systems with large cargo and drone bays so that you don't have to go home often


  • Which is pretty cool imo, since this isn't the Ammarrian approach on drones (If we have drones, we either have missiles or don't use any other weapon system at all).
    However, the bonuses you worked out don't favor the use of lasers. For example the Astero. You're giving it 2 Hardpoints, while at the same time, only 2 highslots. So if people decide to fly it into combat, they most likely would use the cov ops cloak, too, leaving the ship with one turret to use - which then isn't even bonused to use lasers.
    For the Stratios you grant a Role Bonus for a 50% reduction in capacitor use, but that's it again, there's no other bonus for lasers. So why would anyone use lasers here over, let's say Blasters since they're going to be able to sneak up close, or autocannons so they can choose the damage they want do deal?

    If i were to emphasize their use onto lasers and drones, i would probably reduce the hardpoints, like Sansha and Bloodraider have, while giving them a similar rolebonus on their damage. This forces them into lasers, while granting a cap-bonus the same time.


    Next up, the damage potential of an Astero. You'll have 5 drones + 1, maybe 2 unbonused turrets - if you give up on the cloak. This leaves you with ~100 dps from a flight of hobgoblins + 1/2 unbonused turrets, so i think people will be able to top out at ~200 dps in a ganky setup. Which is pretty, ... let's say, average. Because for this you sacrifice a lot of the ship's role. A Firetail, a navy frig (which can't covops cloak to be fair), can do some 160-170 dps in a relative tanky setup. Keep in mind that the Comet and Slicer can top this with relative ease, and maybe you start, like me, feeling that it might pack SOME more punch.

    I would for example suggest a reduced bandwidth with a rolebonus on drone damage. The Maulus or Crucifier for example have 4 respecitvely 3 drones.
    For the Asteros i would suggest a rolebonus of 100% towards Drone damage, Repair amount and E-War strength (maybe not for ECM) (and maybe some Access Difficulty Bonus for salvage drones?), while giving it 15 Mbit bandwidth and 60m³ bay.
    This would allow it to run with 6 effective drones while giving it a good bay to support a huge variety of drones. It would also improve the ship's performance with very rarely used (cause ineffective) drones like Stasis Webbers.

    I would also consider moving it from 2/4/4 to 3/3/4, but then again this would cripple a lot of the exploration stuff this ship is also meant to do.






    And just running some experiments with the Stratios right now:

    The CPU is Enough. There is no need to buff it. I'm currently having something like the following:

    [Stratios, Test test]
    Damage Control II
    Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
    Medium Armor Repairer II
    Drone Damage Amplifier II
    Drone Damage Amplifier II

    10MN Afterburner II
    Warp Scrambler II
    Stasis Webifier II
    Stasis Webifier II
    Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800

    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
    Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

    Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
    Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
    Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I

    Ogre II x5



    Raw Armor: 3000
    Resistance Profile (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 74,5 / 66,8 / 61,7 / 70,2
    Active Tank: ~ 180 dps
    Damage Output: 850 DPS
    CPU Used: 475/500
    Powergrid used: 993,54 / 1150


    If i go with heavy neutrons i end up with 499/500 CPU and still ~100 free Powergrid and 900 raw dps.

    Let's be honest: Remove the lousy 'Capuse Bonus' and give it 100% reduced locking delay after decloaking Pirate





    Michael Harari
    Genos Occidere
    HYDRA RELOADED
    #80 - 2013-10-02 16:20:52 UTC
    Also rise, the forum function to search for dev posts is currently broken. I dont even know who or where to file a report about this, but it makes it very hard to find new balance posts from you guys.