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A trillion reasons why the null sec cartels are thrilled with the POCO changes

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Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2013-09-30 17:30:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Sure, use ad hominem attacks when you can't refute the message.

The only message I get is:
Quote:
Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist.



he added a period to the end of the url

e: or did the mittani use his leverage with the forum mods to add the period to stifle the message? we may never know
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#42 - 2013-09-30 17:32:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Malbrick has done a pretty thorough analysis of the taxes being generated from high sec custom offices.
I urge all to read it: http://mabricksmumblings.blogspot.ca/2013/09/high-sec-poco-economics.html.

Now, he has some pretty wide ranges on the estimates of tax being brought in, but if we take the mid-point, we are looking at 1 TRILLION ISK per month that was an ISK sink is now being diverted into the pockets of the null sec cartels.

According to Jester's blog, the goon CSM rep confirms that once an organization puts up a POCO, you have to warec the organization to attack the POCO. So at the moment, we have a huge bunch of bored null sec players, looking for something to do. They will just treat this as another campaign, with a one time structure grind, and take every NPC customs office they want.
And then the cash rolls in, because who will wardec them to take back a POCO?

Of course, CCP can refute this is a 1 Trillion ISK/ month gift to the cartels, by providing the current accurate valuation of high sec NPC Custom Offices taxes. I would LOVE for CCP to provide a hard number. But they won't.

And one other thing CCP. How do you plan on replacing this ISK sink? You are creating another inflationary pressure by removing this ISK sink. Will you nerf high sec missions, high sec incursions, or increase the transaction taxes on trades and contracts when you create yet another passive income source for null sec?


Don't worry, CCP is adding a new module, called the Dinsdalizer, that when activated turns Tritanium into Tinfoil suitable for hat manufacturing. It will revolutionize conspiracy theorizing across New Eden.

Get ready for the endless trolling to get the thread locked because they dont like message.


Look, it's Dinsdlae spiritual twin brother.

And i mean that, Because look at what you did here, you created your own consiracy theory that I (and/or Tippia or Malcanis) simply "troll" threads we don't like in order to induce CCP to shut them down. That presupposes that I (or the others) actually WANT to shut people up (which is dumb, who would we laugh at were it not for the Dinsdales and Hawkeyes of the EVe-world?). you've also display acceptance of that oldest of High Sec conspiracy theories: "you just think (x) because you want me to move to null sec and be an easy target".

All of these things you do are (like Dinsdale) merely defense mechanisms that you use to protect your ego from harm, it's easier to do that than to critique your own thinking and find out where and why you were wrong about an issue being discussed. The need for such a defense mechanism on a video game discussion board says some really really bad things about your personality bro.

There, have I trolled enough for CCP to close the thread yet? Because I really don't want Dinsdale's Truths to be out there, i've got moon goo profits from my 18 personal tech moons and CCP granted T2 BPOs to worry about.....
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#43 - 2013-09-30 17:38:49 UTC
Remove ISK from game, tritanium as the currency FTW.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#44 - 2013-09-30 17:50:43 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Sure, use ad hominem attacks when you can't refute the message.

The only message I get is:
Quote:
Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist.



he added a period to the end of the url

e: or did the mittani use his leverage with the forum mods to add the period to stifle the message? we may never know


Couldn't have been Mittani, he's at a CIA conference that's planning to fake the Mars landing , he has to be there because he's funding the effort with RMT money.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#45 - 2013-09-30 17:52:40 UTC
Cierra Royce wrote:
Actually, I confess, the OP is correct, we are going to take all the Higsec POCOs and run them at 85% tax, Half for mittens half for me to fund my Somer Blink addiction.


We'll be racing you too it. Twisted
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#46 - 2013-09-30 17:55:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Malbrick has done a pretty thorough analysis of the taxes being generated from high sec custom offices.
I urge all to read it: http://mabricksmumblings.blogspot.ca/2013/09/high-sec-poco-economics.html.

Now, he has some pretty wide ranges on the estimates of tax being brought in, but if we take the mid-point, we are looking at 1 TRILLION ISK per month that was an ISK sink is now being diverted into the pockets of the null sec cartels.

According to Jester's blog, the goon CSM rep confirms that once an organization puts up a POCO, you have to warec the organization to attack the POCO. So at the moment, we have a huge bunch of bored null sec players, looking for something to do. They will just treat this as another campaign, with a one time structure grind, and take every NPC customs office they want.
And then the cash rolls in, because who will wardec them to take back a POCO?

Of course, CCP can refute this is a 1 Trillion ISK/ month gift to the cartels, by providing the current accurate valuation of high sec NPC Custom Offices taxes. I would LOVE for CCP to provide a hard number. But they won't.

And one other thing CCP. How do you plan on replacing this ISK sink? You are creating another inflationary pressure by removing this ISK sink. Will you nerf high sec missions, high sec incursions, or increase the transaction taxes on trades and contracts when you create yet another passive income source for null sec?


But in all seriousness (this is me re-railing my own De-rail lol), couldn't you have just said:
Actually Sane Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I'm concerned about player owned POCOs in high sec. The current NPC owned POCOs provide a valuable service to the game by sinking isk while at the same time allowing easy and equal access to PI for everyone in High Sec. Thank you for your consideration CCP on this issue.


That would have been reasonable, and we could have had a discussion about the issue. You might even have had a point. But you can't resist twisting EVERYTHING into some crazy but worthless crap fest about the "cartels" and shadowy dealings.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#47 - 2013-09-30 18:00:01 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Sure, use ad hominem attacks when you can't refute the message.

The only message I get is:
Quote:
Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist.



he added a period to the end of the url

e: or did the mittani use his leverage with the forum mods to add the period to stifle the message? we may never know

Ah, my bad. Shouldn't spend so much time at the computer while I still struggle with the flu. Back to bed, gonna read it tomorrow now.

Thx for pointing it out!

Remove standings and insurance.
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#48 - 2013-09-30 18:09:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Berendas
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
because who will wardec them to take back a POCO?


You underestimate the manpower required to defend POCOs. Sure, high sec is much smaller than null, but it is far more densely populated. There will be HEAVY competition for these POCOs. Deccing a large alliance also isn't nearly as big a deal as you make it out to be. For the sake of getting targets when things are slow, it isn't unusual for my alliance to be at war with Red Alliance, TEST, GSF, and Solar Fleet all simultaneously.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
And one other thing CCP. How do you plan on replacing this ISK sink?


War dec fees are expected to make up for the loss of this ISK sink.
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2013-09-30 18:12:23 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Remove ISK from game, tritanium as the currency FTW.


hulks mining bitcoins. google ron paul
samualvimes
Brothers At Arms
#50 - 2013-09-30 18:27:00 UTC
Berendas wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
because who will wardec them to take back a POCO?


You underestimate the manpower required to defend POCOs. Sure, high sec is much smaller than null, but it is far more densely populated. There will be HEAVY competition for these POCOs. Deccing a large alliance also isn't nearly as big a deal as you make it out to be. For the sake of getting targets when things are slow, it isn't unusual for my alliance to be at war with Red Alliance, TEST, GSF, and Solar Fleet all simultaneously.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
And one other thing CCP. How do you plan on replacing this ISK sink?


War dec fees are expected to make up for the loss of this ISK sink.



TBH this hits it right on the head.

We are ALWAYS being told "Hi-Sec has more people" etc etc so we should not forget about them.

Why can this huge multitude of people not do anything about these?

Also this gives a really good reason for people to actually fight over something in Hi-Sec . Right now there are NO standard targets or things to provide engagement.

This. Is. A. Brilliant. Move. CCP

If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#51 - 2013-09-30 18:47:58 UTC
samualvimes wrote:
Berendas wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
because who will wardec them to take back a POCO?


You underestimate the manpower required to defend POCOs. Sure, high sec is much smaller than null, but it is far more densely populated. There will be HEAVY competition for these POCOs. Deccing a large alliance also isn't nearly as big a deal as you make it out to be. For the sake of getting targets when things are slow, it isn't unusual for my alliance to be at war with Red Alliance, TEST, GSF, and Solar Fleet all simultaneously.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
And one other thing CCP. How do you plan on replacing this ISK sink?


War dec fees are expected to make up for the loss of this ISK sink.



TBH this hits it right on the head.

We are ALWAYS being told "Hi-Sec has more people" etc etc so we should not forget about them.

Why can this huge multitude of people not do anything about these?

Also this gives a really good reason for people to actually fight over something in Hi-Sec . Right now there are NO standard targets or things to provide engagement.

This. Is. A. Brilliant. Move. CCP


More than brilliant, it actually bring High Sec a step closer being something that looks like it belongs in EVE ( a supposedly player driven sand box ) .

Some people don't want player driven, they want guaranteed safety and ease.
samualvimes
Brothers At Arms
#52 - 2013-09-30 18:51:10 UTC
It's also a great reason to get out of npc corps as well and try and claim one or two of these things in a backwater system for profit.

The positives are huge. The negatives are.....um.....some people unwilling to compete lose out?

in which case they are in the wrong game

If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#53 - 2013-09-30 20:03:43 UTC
samualvimes wrote:
Berendas wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
because who will wardec them to take back a POCO?

You underestimate the manpower required to defend POCOs. Sure, high sec is much smaller than null, but it is far more densely populated. There will be HEAVY competition for these POCOs. Deccing a large alliance also isn't nearly as big a deal as you make it out to be. For the sake of getting targets when things are slow, it isn't unusual for my alliance to be at war with Red Alliance, TEST, GSF, and Solar Fleet all simultaneously.
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
And one other thing CCP. How do you plan on replacing this ISK sink?

War dec fees are expected to make up for the loss of this ISK sink.

TBH this hits it right on the head.

We are ALWAYS being told "Hi-Sec has more people" etc etc so we should not forget about them.

Why can this huge multitude of people not do anything about these?

Also this gives a really good reason for people to actually fight over something in Hi-Sec . Right now there are NO standard targets or things to provide engagement.

This. Is. A. Brilliant. Move. CCP

It's highsec :shrug:

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2013-09-30 20:05:38 UTC
Flawed analysis in my opinion. Don't think you will be able to compare null/low/wormhole space to high sec for comparative PI output yields.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#55 - 2013-09-30 20:08:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
…except, of course, that last we saw any numbers on it, it was 25bn a day sunk across the entire galaxy, or 750bn a month. And that's assuming that every last office is replaced by a POCO (which won't happen) and that, contrary to what the blog post in the OP suggest, every single one is somehow picked up by Dindin's boogeyman (which won't happen either).

So yeah, no.

Moreover, to address the actual worry of the blog post, that's 750bn out of a monthly thirty trillion ISK sunk. It's a rounding error. That pitiful sum only has the highsec cartels thrilled, since they're the ones who'll benefit from it.

e: Yay. We actually have even more recent numbers.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-09-30 20:15:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Malbrick has done a pretty thorough analysis of the taxes being generated from high sec custom offices.
I urge all to read it: http://mabricksmumblings.blogspot.ca/2013/09/high-sec-poco-economics.html.

Now, he has some pretty wide ranges on the estimates of tax being brought in, but if we take the mid-point, we are looking at 1 TRILLION ISK per month that was an ISK sink is now being diverted into the pockets of the null sec cartels.

According to Jester's blog, the goon CSM rep confirms that once an organization puts up a POCO, you have to warec the organization to attack the POCO. So at the moment, we have a huge bunch of bored null sec players, looking for something to do. They will just treat this as another campaign, with a one time structure grind, and take every NPC customs office they want.
And then the cash rolls in, because who will wardec them to take back a POCO?

Of course, CCP can refute this is a 1 Trillion ISK/ month gift to the cartels, by providing the current accurate valuation of high sec NPC Custom Offices taxes. I would LOVE for CCP to provide a hard number. But they won't.

And one other thing CCP. How do you plan on replacing this ISK sink? You are creating another inflationary pressure by removing this ISK sink. Will you nerf high sec missions, high sec incursions, or increase the transaction taxes on trades and contracts when you create yet another passive income source for null sec?



You seriously overestimate just how far we are willing to jump.

For really its 30 jumps to high sec from where I live, I'm not going a 60 jump round trip MINIMUM to mess with your POCO, its just not going to happen.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#57 - 2013-09-30 20:17:58 UTC
Hey I got a question here.

If there are fights over these POCOs, will there be involvement with DUST bunnies fighting it out on the ground too?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#58 - 2013-09-30 20:18:26 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
People war dec nullsec alliances all the time.

Chickenlittle some more.


The people that wardec Null Alliances are looking for ganks, not fights.
They aren't generally geared up to fight an actual combat fleet. And responding to a reinforcement is something Null Alliances do daily....
Chicken, meet egg....

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#59 - 2013-09-30 20:20:28 UTC  |  Edited by: E-2C Hawkeye
Jenn aSide wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Malbrick has done a pretty thorough analysis of the taxes being generated from high sec custom offices.
I urge all to read it: http://mabricksmumblings.blogspot.ca/2013/09/high-sec-poco-economics.html.

Now, he has some pretty wide ranges on the estimates of tax being brought in, but if we take the mid-point, we are looking at 1 TRILLION ISK per month that was an ISK sink is now being diverted into the pockets of the null sec cartels.

According to Jester's blog, the goon CSM rep confirms that once an organization puts up a POCO, you have to warec the organization to attack the POCO. So at the moment, we have a huge bunch of bored null sec players, looking for something to do. They will just treat this as another campaign, with a one time structure grind, and take every NPC customs office they want.
And then the cash rolls in, because who will wardec them to take back a POCO?

Of course, CCP can refute this is a 1 Trillion ISK/ month gift to the cartels, by providing the current accurate valuation of high sec NPC Custom Offices taxes. I would LOVE for CCP to provide a hard number. But they won't.

And one other thing CCP. How do you plan on replacing this ISK sink? You are creating another inflationary pressure by removing this ISK sink. Will you nerf high sec missions, high sec incursions, or increase the transaction taxes on trades and contracts when you create yet another passive income source for null sec?


Don't worry, CCP is adding a new module, called the Dinsdalizer, that when activated turns Tritanium into Tinfoil suitable for hat manufacturing. It will revolutionize conspiracy theorizing across New Eden.

Get ready for the endless trolling to get the thread locked because they dont like message.


Look, it's Dinsdlae spiritual twin brother.

And i mean that, Because look at what you did here, you created your own consiracy theory that I (and/or Tippia or Malcanis) simply "troll" threads we don't like in order to induce CCP to shut them down. That presupposes that I (or the others) actually WANT to shut people up (which is dumb, who would we laugh at were it not for the Dinsdales and Hawkeyes of the EVe-world?). you've also display acceptance of that oldest of High Sec conspiracy theories: "you just think (x) because you want me to move to null sec and be an easy target".

All of these things you do are (like Dinsdale) merely defense mechanisms that you use to protect your ego from harm, it's easier to do that than to critique your own thinking and find out where and why you were wrong about an issue being discussed. The need for such a defense mechanism on a video game discussion board says some really really bad things about your personality bro.

There, have I trolled enough for CCP to close the thread yet? Because I really don't want Dinsdale's Truths to be out there, i've got moon goo profits from my 18 personal tech moons and CCP granted T2 BPOs to worry about.....


Wow you could almost be a mentalist but you just seem to be well..... a lot short of grey matter.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#60 - 2013-09-30 20:21:46 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
People war dec nullsec alliances all the time.

The people that wardec Null Alliances are looking for ganks, not fights.

They'll kill idiots who undock in jita with in corp alts.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?