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Interdiction Nullfied Interceptors are not acceptable!!!

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#121 - 2013-09-28 20:51:01 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
IDK, maybe you should use....um....interceptors to intercept the interceptors?

But who is going to intercept the interceptors that are intercepting the interceptors?

RSB:ed Tornadoes.
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#122 - 2013-09-28 20:58:22 UTC
Just adapt like everyone had to after WTZ entered the game. I'm sure someone will figure out a way to combat them, and you can copy them OP as it doesn't look as if you really want to adapt. You can either adapt, or die. Has always been this way in EVE, and I hope it always will be.
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#123 - 2013-09-28 21:00:15 UTC
Stupid double post.
Axe Coldon
#124 - 2013-09-28 21:02:23 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
CCP Fozzie and CCP Rise then went on to talk about features coming out with Rubicon, EvE's winter expansion:

While many of the ideas were pretty nifty, this little gem came out:

Interceptor changes: bubble immunity planned. Interdiction nullified, basically. Dropping average HP a little bit, very small cargo bays.

I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving Nullified to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the Nullifier mechanics are revised.

Reason 1:
  • Interceptors are generally sent ahead of fleet to "catch" targets. This includes purposely warping them into bubbles where enemy "traps are", with the intention of tackling targets before they can run. This has mixed results depending on the inty pilot skills, but by making inties nullified, you prevent using this tactic!!!

    • Reason 2:
  • This is a dumbing down of the game. It allows inty pilots that stupidly warp gate-to-gate when hostiles are in system, rather than using bookmarks and celestials, to move about more safely. Nullsec travel already has covert ops ships, interdiction nullified ships, and MJD-cloak BSs to move around nullsec very safely. Interceptors themselves are currently very adept at navigating unhindered through nullsec, so why would we want to make them even safer?

    • Reason 3:
  • The number one method to gank inties is to surprise the gate-to-gate traveler with a drag bubble. This is a great way to catch scouts for a gang, which is very accessible even to very young solo frigate pilots.

    • At the end of the day, serious gate campers will still use sensor boosted tacklers to catch inties before they warp, so this really won't really change your big gate camps. Instead, you are
  • encouraging carebears to bubble wrap their systems gates, as a cheap inty will get them through the gate if they desire.
  • making travel safer, especially for the "I don't know how to avoid drag bubbles" crowd.
  • helping inties infringe on the covops role, by making it easier for inties to navigate hostile groups.

    • Potential change to the Interdiciton Nullifier System that could balance out interdiction nullified inties:
  • A long time ago, Interdiction Nullified subsystems were "accidentallied" by CCP, such that a nullified cruiser could warp out of a bubble, but if warped to a celestial with a bubble on it, they'd still be affected by the bubbles pull.

    • P.S. Since most people seem to misunderstand my point: This isn't about "wah my bubble camps can be bypassed". This is about WHY ARE WE MAKING NULLSEC TRAVEL SAFER AND EASIER. We already have covops and nullified t3's for the risk adverse carebears. Why add inties to that list?


    I agree and it has nothing to do with gate camps. It gives way too much power to a cheap ship that doesn't take much skills. I am all for helping the new guys but this is over the top.

    No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
    Axe Coldon
    #125 - 2013-09-28 21:14:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Axe Coldon
    Totally Wicked'Sucks wrote:
    Mara Rinn wrote:
    Tippia wrote:
    Wandering Deathstriker wrote:
    My biggest problem is that my fleet of miner's will now get instantly caught in a mining belt before they can warp out to a pos... and there's nothing i can really do about it.
    Keep an eye on all your intel tools, maybe? They may be fast, but they're not going to teleport into your belts without you knowing it…


    To be fair, now the mining bot will have to cease mining immediately a non-blue enters local. You used to have a guaranteed 30 seconds of leeway, now you'll have about 10 seconds between the capsuleer appearing in local and their interceptor arriving on-grid.

    This will make life very interesting, especially since the built-in interdiction nullifier means there is a much higher chance that a hisec care bear can fly out to your mining system unimpeded, take a couple of pot shots, then return home to hisec before their play time for the evening is over.



    Believe it or not, there are actually miners in null who don't bot.

    I've read the arguments about using intel and to an extent, this is a valid argument but intel isn't always reliable and from what I can gather, after the proposed changes it will be possible for an interceptor to warp across a 40au system in around 6 seconds.

    I can't vouch for the accuracy of this estimate, but if it's true, that would mean a hulk mining in an 'anom' belt would be a very easy target. It wouldn't matter if it was aligned, it wouldn't matter if it warped to 'safety' the instant a bogey appeared in local.. the chances of survival would plummet. I've had a few narrow escapes to nullified T3 ships even without the proposed changes.

    Weighing up the options, miners could switch to skiffs to try and get faster aligns/warps but it could still make for some close encounters and it would also cut the production. Going further down this route, we could switch to using ventures but the drop off in production would be very telling.

    It's easy to say so what and suck it up, but mining is one of the least profitable pursuits in Eve as it is and we'd all like to be able to cover the cost of our accounts with plex bought ingame if we could wouldn't we?

    It wasn't so long ago that we were told that changes were being made to encourage more people to mine in null sec and some players have taken the opportunity. Those same players are now being given the middle digit by CCP and the only advice seems to be suck it up/adapt.

    Weighing the options for myself personally, I think my best option is to just stop mining and go do something else. I actually quite enjoy mining and will miss it but needs must I suppose. Despite being a juicy target for gankers and opportunists looking for easy kills to pad their killboards with, I've persevered with my mining career. At points, it's felt like I've been tied to a tree, just waiting for a dog to come along and p1ss up my leg... with the proposed changes, it would be more like being buried up to my neck in sand waiting to be p1ssed on, surrounded by signposts saying 'p1ss here'. ;)

    I realise that a lot of players reading this will probably be revelling in my supposed tears and to those players I'd say go ahead and enjoy them if that's how you get your kicks. One quick word of caution though, those carebear tears might not taste quite so sweet if more 'career' miners like myself take the decision to just stop mining too. If the flow of ores for production dries up and the prices of ships/modules go through the roof as a result, I could quite easily see a few more tears. ;)

    With the nerf to offgrid boosts that have already happened and CCP apparently looking at tinkering with the rorqual (presumably to nerf offgrid mining boosts as well) it's probably an ideal time to get out of mining anyway.

    To those miners who are willing to try and adapt keep being pissed on, I offer my best wishes and I hope you succeed but tbh, I don't know why CCP doesn't just do away with mining as a concept and force everyone to get their ores from salvage instead. Doing that would probably sadden some players (including those padding their killboards) but at least it'd be an open and honest action instead of the tinkering to try and maximise their profits by cutting ingame income streams and steering players to buy plex to fund everything from CCP or their 'partners'.

    Wow... I'm getting more and more cynical as time goes by... maybe it's just because I'm getting older, but maybe Eve is starting to rub off on me. :)


    As a long time miner I agree also. Also a career miner (mined non-stop since 08). ALready the biggest threat to me is the fast tackle frigate. The only safety I have is they have to mwd out of the gate bubbles 1st. Take that away and I don't see I will have a chance. But being hardcore...I will mine till it becomes not possible/profitable. I wont mine in Vultures. Not an option for a serious Null miner.

    I worry ccp is going to crazy over the PVP kill everyone big war stuff. Yeah its fun and exciting and makes good press and brings people into the game. but at the end of the day PVP'ers are fickle bore easy and move on to the next game. Eve is a balance between all the many facets of the game. They need to take care not to ruin that balance or it will ruin the game and eve will die.

    If you want to introduce a nullified tackle frigate it needs to be expensive as a balance. At least 1/2 the cost of a t3. Or give us better tools to defend ourselves. An exhumer with guns or immune to electronic warfare as an option or something. A T3 miner. something.

    No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
    Sol Weinstein
    Lunatic Warfare Federation
    #126 - 2013-09-28 21:15:15 UTC
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
    EvE's


    Disrespecting the game. Post and ideas invalid. Move along, people.

    Thank you.

    Sol
    Kaarous Aldurald
    Black Hydra Consortium.
    #127 - 2013-09-28 21:31:41 UTC
    Quote:
    As a long time miner I agree also. Also a career miner (mined non-stop since 08). ALready the biggest threat to me is the fast tackle frigate. The only safety I have is they have to mwd out of the gate bubbles 1st. Take that away and I don't see I will have a chance. But being hardcore...I will mine till it becomes not possible/profitable. I wont mine in Ventures. Not an option for a serious Null miner.

    I worry ccp is going to crazy over the PVP kill everyone big war stuff. Yeah its fun and exciting and makes good press and brings people into the game. but at the end of the day PVP'ers are fickle bore easy and move on to the next game. Eve is a balance between all the many facets of the game. They need to take care not to ruin that balance or it will ruin the game and eve will die.

    If you want to introduce a nullified tackle frigate it needs to be expensive as a balance. At least 1/2 the cost of a t3. Or give us better tools to defend ourselves. An exhumer with guns or immune to electronic warfare as an option or something. A T3 miner. something.


    Your first paragraph shows a great deal of dedication to what is undoubtedly the most boring activity in the game. I fail to understand this myself. I'd rather chop off my left pinky finger than mine all the time.

    Your second paragraph... you're way off base. Your chosen profession isn't what brings people into this game, and it's not why they stay. And I do agree that the overall balance of the game is important. For a long time it's been too skewed toward safety, and it's about time some conflict is reintroduced. And your last sentence is the typical "I'll quit!" statement spouted off by far too many carebears when their position as the lowest rung on the ladder is demonstrated to them.

    And no. It's about time a nullified vessel that doesn't cost a PLEX worth of money is introduced. Or half a plex, or whatever. It's quite likely that interceptors will be raised in overall price for materials, but look how well that worked with some of the recent tiericide after all.

    You already got your better tools. The barge/exhumer buff was pretty much the start of all of this. The rest of the game is just getting to catch up after all this time. And about time it is.

    "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

    One of ours, ten of theirs.

    Best Meltdown Ever.
    Andski
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #128 - 2013-09-28 21:36:21 UTC
    nullified anything is a stupid idea, including nullified T3s

    Twitter: @EVEAndski

    "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
    Solstice Project's Alt
    Doomheim
    #129 - 2013-09-28 23:20:18 UTC
    Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
    Sarcasm

    Your first paragraph shows a great deal of dedication to what is undoubtedly the most boring activity in the game. I fail to understand this myself. I'd rather chop off my left pinky finger than mine all the time.

    Your second paragraph... you're way off base. Your chosen profession isn't what brings people into this game, and it's not why they stay. And I do agree that the overall balance of the game is important. For a long time it's been too skewed toward safety, and it's about time some conflict is reintroduced. And your last sentence is the typical "I'll quit!" statement spouted off by far too many carebears when their position as the lowest rung on the ladder is demonstrated to them.

    And no. It's about time a nullified vessel that doesn't cost a PLEX worth of money is introduced. Or half a plex, or whatever. It's quite likely that interceptors will be raised in overall price for materials, but look how well that worked with some of the recent tiericide after all.

    You already got your better tools. The barge/exhumer buff was pretty much the start of all of this. The rest of the game is just getting to catch up after all this time. And about time it is.


    It's beyond him.


    Buy Solstice Project for PLEX4GOOD ! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=301266 (this alt-character will get deleted once the sale is done, on 6th of december)
    Gizznitt Malikite
    Agony Unleashed
    Agony Empire
    #130 - 2013-09-29 01:00:54 UTC
    Andski wrote:
    nullified anything is a stupid idea, including nullified T3s


    QFT!
    Kaarous Aldurald
    Black Hydra Consortium.
    #131 - 2013-09-29 01:10:05 UTC
    Solstice Project's Alt wrote:
    Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
    Sarcasm

    Your first paragraph shows a great deal of dedication to what is undoubtedly the most boring activity in the game. I fail to understand this myself. I'd rather chop off my left pinky finger than mine all the time.

    Your second paragraph... you're way off base. Your chosen profession isn't what brings people into this game, and it's not why they stay. And I do agree that the overall balance of the game is important. For a long time it's been too skewed toward safety, and it's about time some conflict is reintroduced. And your last sentence is the typical "I'll quit!" statement spouted off by far too many carebears when their position as the lowest rung on the ladder is demonstrated to them.

    And no. It's about time a nullified vessel that doesn't cost a PLEX worth of money is introduced. Or half a plex, or whatever. It's quite likely that interceptors will be raised in overall price for materials, but look how well that worked with some of the recent tiericide after all.

    You already got your better tools. The barge/exhumer buff was pretty much the start of all of this. The rest of the game is just getting to catch up after all this time. And about time it is.


    It's beyond him.




    If that was a troll, it was a good one. Yours?

    "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

    One of ours, ten of theirs.

    Best Meltdown Ever.
    Bloodmyst Ranwar
    Menace of Morons
    #132 - 2013-09-29 01:46:30 UTC
    I don't know why people think bubbles should be removed from the game and more hulls should be bubble immune. Seriously, bubbles aren't hard to avoid when travelling through Nullsec. As a matter of fact, I think it's hard to be caught out with them.

    At first I only saw the benefits of interdiction nullified inites, but Gizznit has raised a few concerns about the new mechanic that made me question.... do we really "need" bubble immune Inties?

    I guess if it doesn't work out as intended, CCP can always revert the changes.
    Operative X10-4
    Doomheim
    #133 - 2013-09-29 03:37:43 UTC
    Agreed, thats a FAIL move, interdiction nullifier ceptor is something very stupid.. A good ceptor pilot that knows to manual flight and keep tranversal is almost unstoppable. When they fall into bubbles is the only chance you have to kill one... even this cant stop a ceptor pilot. When I'm flying ceptors I have no trouble in staying alive with enemys in the same grid, and I jump in bubbles with enemys without problems. Now people will get expensive modules and jump into those stupid ceptors and warp straight from gate to gate in null sec, thats ridiculous.
    CCP do not mess with our gameplay, flying safe is for High sec and those carebears that lives there, we are another breed of people, period.

    FOREVER PIRATE 07 FLY DANGEROUSLY.
    Zaxix
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #134 - 2013-09-29 03:40:00 UTC
    I don't know if it's a good idea or bad, but I'm totally looking forward to touring every system in the EVE universe.

    Bokononist

     
    Operative X10-4
    Doomheim
    #135 - 2013-09-29 03:50:07 UTC
    I would like to add that the only places you can really force some one to fight are in gates and in bubbles, non consensual fights. Adding more nullifier things is a bad move for pvp, even T3 shouldnt be able to use nullifier modules.

    FOREVER PIRATE 07 FLY DANGEROUSLY.
    TharOkha
    0asis Group
    #136 - 2013-09-29 06:11:10 UTC
    "I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving Nullified to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the Nullifier mechanics are revised. "

    so in other words. You want always win at gatecamps, right?

    also frigate with nullifies? HINT: more smartbombs


    I hate those lazy gatecamping pilots who think that they should catch EVERY SINGLE SHIP during their elite pvp actions.

    CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
    baltec1
    Bat Country
    Pandemic Horde
    #137 - 2013-09-29 06:33:03 UTC
    TharOkha wrote:
    "I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving Nullified to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the Nullifier mechanics are revised. "

    so in other words. You want always win at gatecamps, right?

    also frigate with nullifies? HINT: more smartbombs


    I hate those lazy gatecamping pilots who think that they should catch EVERY SINGLE SHIP during their elite pvp actions.


    What about the lazy pilots who think they should be able to avoid every gatecamp?
    Daisai
    Daisai Investments.
    #138 - 2013-09-29 06:37:09 UTC
    baltec1 wrote:
    TharOkha wrote:
    "I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving Nullified to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the Nullifier mechanics are revised. "

    so in other words. You want always win at gatecamps, right?

    also frigate with nullifies? HINT: more smartbombs


    I hate those lazy gatecamping pilots who think that they should catch EVERY SINGLE SHIP during their elite pvp actions.


    What about the lazy pilots who think they should be able to avoid every gatecamp?


    They are not lazy, they are moving from gate to gate unlike the gatecamp Roll
    baltec1
    Bat Country
    Pandemic Horde
    #139 - 2013-09-29 06:45:18 UTC
    Quote:


    They are not lazy, they are moving from gate to gate unlike the gatecamp Roll


    Oh so because they are moving around they should be able to breeze past the people guarding their empires boarders...


    No. They are just as lazy as the people who think gatecamps should catch everyone.
    Herzog Wolfhammer
    Sigma Special Tactics Group
    #140 - 2013-09-29 06:50:18 UTC
    baltec1 wrote:
    Quote:


    They are not lazy, they are moving from gate to gate unlike the gatecamp Roll


    Oh so because they are moving around they should be able to breeze past the people guarding their empires boarders...


    No. They are just as lazy as the people who think gatecamps should catch everyone.




    "Boarders"

    Bet that's not a typo

    Bring back DEEEEP Space!