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Interdiction Nullfied Interceptors are not acceptable!!!

First post
Author
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#81 - 2013-09-28 02:36:40 UTC
The risk averse carebears are the gate campers, not the travelers.

The part where you called (some of) them "pro" was ******* priceless.

4/10 for getting the first guy to respond 11 times as many likes as you. Thats hard work.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#82 - 2013-09-28 02:40:50 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
The risk averse carebears are the gate campers, not the travelers.

The part where you called (some of) them "pro" was ******* priceless.

Heh,... yeah

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#83 - 2013-09-28 02:47:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Wandering Deathstriker wrote:
My biggest problem is that my fleet of miner's will now get instantly caught in a mining belt before they can warp out to a pos... and there's nothing i can really do about it.
Keep an eye on all your intel tools, maybe? They may be fast, but they're not going to teleport into your belts without you knowing it…


To be fair, now the mining bot will have to cease mining immediately a non-blue enters local. You used to have a guaranteed 30 seconds of leeway, now you'll have about 10 seconds between the capsuleer appearing in local and their interceptor arriving on-grid.

This will make life very interesting, especially since the built-in interdiction nullifier means there is a much higher chance that a hisec care bear can fly out to your mining system unimpeded, take a couple of pot shots, then return home to hisec before their play time for the evening is over.

Felicity Love
Doomheim
#84 - 2013-09-28 02:50:52 UTC
... null bear tears, best tears. Pirate

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Whisperen
This is Serious Mum
The Initiative.
#85 - 2013-09-28 06:31:34 UTC
Screw the ceptors whats are they doing to the Lics! This might all be a lot of tears (justified ) about nothing.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2013-09-28 06:59:08 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
The risk averse carebears are the gate campers, not the travelers.

The part where you called (some of) them "pro" was ******* priceless.

Heh,... yeah


True but to an interceptor?!?

Let's get serious. Of all classes of ships that could utilize this style of protection... If you can't get past a gate camp, bubble or otherwise, with an interceptor - either go back to highsec or /salute to a camp that *WAS* awake and paying close attention. Either they did a very good job or you flat out suck at flying that ship.

With the warp speed changes, they already will get a big boost to "intercepting" targets - but "prey" role protection?!?! T3's give up one hell of a lot of potency to fit that sub-system and I see zip-spank "costs" for these tiny speed-demons to now get it...
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2013-09-28 07:38:35 UTC
All what can make gatecamping at bottlenecks less effective is a good move.
Bottlenecks are what's killing the dynamism of the game.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#88 - 2013-09-28 09:57:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
While I don't know the OP personally, I don't want to seem insulting here. But as one player to another, I have to say: learn to hunt for your food, OK?

Where there are many who claim that people who can mine rocks all day have something wrong with them, and their playstyle is some kind of pox on the game, the same can be said about people who are equally semi-AFK (or on Ritalin) and watching a gate all day just to kill everything that comes through it.

And I know this playstyle, for the rage I have seen from people who lamely orbited the gate and still didn't get the kill is comparable to the rage of a miner getting bumped out of the belt or ganked.

The tears flow all the same. Of course the gate campers have a higher opinion of themselves, based on some notion that PVP is some high-exalted and holy playstyle, but lacking the memo that shipraep on a gate, sometimes waiting an hour for a target, is not impressing on the world any model of greatness (or intelligence for this matter).


We need MORE bubble-resistant ships. The Great Wall of Carebear (bears on both sides, BTW) is obvious, and something is being done about it.

We are also forgetting that on the agressor or pursuit angle of things, a nullifying inty is going to be very dangerous in a pursuit. This is is a ship that can escape it's own bubble camp, overfly a running ship, land at the gate, jump ahead of it, then tackle it on the other side. This is going to be nasty.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Aivo Dresden
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#89 - 2013-09-28 10:03:12 UTC
I love the idea. Interceptors should be able to intercept ... I guess you're just upset your gate camps won't work anymore. You know, you can always use regular points to scramble them right ...

This whole complaint is just laziness. Seriously, Interceptors used to just burn out of the bubble and jump away anyway. Are you worried you'll now have to put some effort in catching an interceptor? Roll
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#90 - 2013-09-28 10:31:15 UTC
I'm not keen on this suggestion for two primary reasons. Firstly it runs (as does the fitting of CovOps cloaks to everything) counter to the drive to force a combattant to commit - a group of 'ceptors could (with this ability) fight in a bubble in certain knowledge that, should things go south they can disengage immediately. It isn't as if burning out of a bubble took very long in the first place, although it also isn't the case that the Interceptor has much margin for error given that their most direct escape route offers the chance of a very low transversal volley.
Secondly it significantly reduces the effectiveness of Interdictors which were at one point, with their relatively high speeds, sphere launchers and relatively heavy frigate weight armament, one of the better counters to fast moving interceptors. Of course the Interdictor tends to be relagated to drive-by bubbling these days but I have been involved in some fantastic small Interceptor vs Interdictor chases, the Inties trying to hold point while also trying to avoid both the firepower of the 'dictors and having enough of them in range to make a bubble worth deploying.
With the high speed of Interceptors Interdiction Nullification means that the only real counters are either instalock volley damage (which I think everyone can agree is no fun) or other Interceptors - and when the sensible counter to a ship or class is another of that ship or class problems and imbalance develops.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#91 - 2013-09-28 10:57:12 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
[quote=Tippia][quote=Gizznitt Malikite]How does bubble immunity help the interceptor?


Are you serious? This implementation isn't to create new tactics or "proper operational movement". It is simply a change to make nullsec travel safer. I figured you'd be one of the few to rally against making EvE safer and easier!


this change will result in a ton of fleeing fleets losing a ton more stragglers than they do now. interceptors chasing your fleet will now become something to really fear as opposed to the trivially easy to evade as they are now. It will make all sorts of null sec life more dangerous and harder. It is a great change and although it will make ceptors a bit safer they will still die constantly when they tackle stuff as they do now. They have a dangerous nad tricky job in most fights and they deserve to be able to chase down fleeing fleets. After all that is the role of an interceptor....to ....you know intercept stuff,

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#92 - 2013-09-28 11:12:17 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
To be fair, now the mining bot will have to cease mining immediately a non-blue enters local. You used to have a guaranteed 30 seconds of leeway, now you'll have about 10 seconds between the capsuleer appearing in local and their interceptor arriving on-grid.

This will make life very interesting, especially since the built-in interdiction nullifier means there is a much higher chance that a hisec care bear can fly out to your mining system unimpeded, take a couple of pot shots, then return home to hisec before their play time for the evening is over.

Like I said, an all around excellent change of mechanics. Twisted

Mocam wrote:
Let's get serious. […]

With the warp speed changes, they already will get a big boost to "intercepting" targets - but "prey" role protection?!?! T3's give up one hell of a lot of potency to fit that sub-system and I see zip-spank "costs" for these tiny speed-demons to now get it...

And, to remain serious, that's probably the point. After all, T3 ships are meant to provide similar, but always slightly worse, abilities than T2 ships have, only they can do so in combinations that the T2s can never match. The nullifier was something that didn't sit well in that paradigm, so giving interceptors that ability means that we now have a T2 ship that can do it, and a T3 sub that can do it slightly worse (since they're not nearly as fast or agile).

…and like you say, at the end of the day, interceptors are probably the ones that will be the least affected by this since their bubble-evasion was already top notch.
Aeronite
Prolific Enterprises
#93 - 2013-09-28 11:18:58 UTC
Go roam stop camping gates for easy kills
Feer Truelight
#94 - 2013-09-28 11:26:28 UTC
Flamers gonna flame,
racists gonna race,
Interceptors gonna intercept.

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Trit
Constructive Influence
Brothers of Tangra
#95 - 2013-09-28 11:37:05 UTC
good for goons and noobs and bad for eve = added to patch.

Shine on Crazy Nubbins

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#96 - 2013-09-28 11:38:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Frankly, there are a lot of disillusioned players posting in this thread:

There are two directions on most gate camps:
  • Those that setup on a gate and wait for players to jump into them and their bubble. Interceptors are almost always able to burn back to gate in these camps, and your deluding yourself if you think you can cold warp away out of the bubbles when ceptors become nullified. It is not hard to bring along a sensor boosted ares or thrasher that can insta-lock any frigate before it warps, ceptors included.

  • Those that setup drag bubbles around a gate. Most gates that are seriously camped are done so regularly, and any solid player gets bookmarks around the gate so they can bypass the bubbles at will. This change makes it much easier for inties to traverse these camps without preparation or intelligent piloting.

  • And what is the benefit we get for dumbing down travel, so inties can ignore the later type of gate camp that is already easy to avoid by competent players?
    -- You can ignore dictor stop bubbles which are used to slow down fleets? And why is this good thing? In order for that bubble tactic to work, the dictor has to be on gate, with his bubble up, before the inty even hits the warp bubble. If your target has their timing down, or pre-sets up a stop bubble to delay chasers, that means they are thinking ahead and playing strategically. Those plays should be applauded, not gimped by giving inties this bonus.

    -- You can ignore bubble wrapped gates to go catch ratters. Frankly, the number of bear operations that bubble wrapped gates in EvE is not very many, so this isn't some majorly applicable situation. Generally speaking, those bears that do bubble wrap their gates are generally blingier operations, but they are also using taking time to protect their operation. Again, their foresight should be somewhat applauded, even if they do run to a POS and hide until you leave.

    I don't think this change is at all in the right direction.

    Tippia wrote:
    …and like you say, at the end of the day, interceptors are probably the ones that will be the least affected by this since their bubble-evasion was already top notch.


    This change simply makes flying an interceptor safer. It is a change to make nullsec travel safer. This is not a good thing, and I'm really shocked your advocating for it Tippia...
    Tippia
    Sunshine and Lollipops
    #97 - 2013-09-28 11:45:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
    This change simply makes flying an interceptor safer.
    So? That means flying everything else is less safe, since there's a dedicated tackler flying around and ignoring your defences. 8 ships become insignificantly harder to catch; 200+ ships become much more easier to hunt down…

    Quote:
    It is a change to make nullsec travel safer.
    Not with all those mass-murdering unstoppable interceptors flying around, it isn't.
    vextorious
    Doomheim
    #98 - 2013-09-28 11:54:21 UTC
    The OP is pretty dim.

    Ill put the gravy on these potatoes for ya.


    making interceptors more valuable encourages old bitter vets to fly with younger pilots thus growing eve.

    it doesnt matter how many things you list. my one point nullifies, HEHE PUN INTENDED, them all.

    Growing your business is the capitalist way

    /end thread

    Fetish McButt
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #99 - 2013-09-28 11:57:28 UTC
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
    CCP Fozzie and CCP Rise then went on to talk about features coming out with Rubicon, EvE's winter expansion:

    While many of the ideas were pretty nifty, this little gem came out:

    Interceptor changes: bubble immunity planned. Interdiction nullified, basically. Dropping average HP a little bit, very small cargo bays.

    I'm sorry, but Interdiction Nullified ships are generally a BAD thing (i.e. too safe). Furthermore, giving Nullified to fast aligning interceptors is over-the-line, unless the Nullifier mechanics are revised.

    Reason 1:
  • Interceptors are generally sent ahead of fleet to "catch" targets. This includes purposely warping them into bubbles where enemy "traps are", with the intention of tackling targets before they can run. This has mixed results depending on the inty pilot skills, but by making inties nullified, you prevent using this tactic!!!

  • Reason 2:
  • This is a dumbing down of the game. It allows inty pilots that stupidly warp gate-to-gate when hostiles are in system, rather than using bookmarks and celestials, to move about more safely. Nullsec travel already has covert ops ships, interdiction nullified ships, and MJD-cloak BSs to move around nullsec very safely. Interceptors themselves are currently very adept at navigating unhindered through nullsec, so why would we want to make them even safer?

  • Reason 3:
  • The number one method to gank inties is to surprise the gate-to-gate traveler with a drag bubble. This is a great way to catch scouts for a gang, which is very accessible even to very young solo frigate pilots.

  • At the end of the day, serious gate campers will still use sensor boosted tacklers to catch inties before they warp, so this really won't really change your big gate camps. Instead, you are
  • encouraging carebears to bubble wrap their systems gates, as a cheap inty will get them through the gate if they desire.
  • making travel safer, especially for the "I don't know how to avoid drag bubbles" crowd.
  • helping inties infringe on the covops role, by making it easier for inties to navigate hostile groups.

  • Potential change to the Interdiciton Nullifier System that could balance out interdiction nullified inties:
  • A long time ago, Interdiction Nullified subsystems were "accidentallied" by CCP, such that a nullified cruiser could warp out of a bubble, but if warped to a celestial with a bubble on it, they'd still be affected by the bubbles pull.

  • P.S. Since most people seem to misunderstand my point: This isn't about "wah my bubble camps can be bypassed". This is about WHY ARE WE MAKING NULLSEC TRAVEL SAFER AND EASIER. We already have covops and nullified t3's for the risk adverse carebears. Why add inties to that list?



    well.. this all sounds to me, that you are concerned, that you are easier to tackle from an belt with your mining barge.

    And to your miserable excuses of 0.0 travelling safer, so what, if you cant catch the inty? let the inty go and grab the last BS instead?

    0.0 as it is is way too safe for an carebear. This will change that a lot! That is your main reason to hate interdiction nullified inties. As the game is, there is simply no way of tackling and killing and carebear, if he is awake. Only way for a carebear to loose his ship is AWOX / sleep / not caring. Even after this change the carebear have more than enough time to GTFO from the anomalies / belts before the tackle lands, they just need to be alert. They need to play the game actively, not AFK.
    Gizznitt Malikite
    Agony Unleashed
    Agony Empire
    #100 - 2013-09-28 12:05:04 UTC
    Tippia wrote:
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
    This change simply makes flying an interceptor safer.
    So? That means flying everything else is less safe, since there's a dedicated tackler flying around and ignoring your defences. 8 ships become insignificantly harder to catch; 200+ ships become much more easier to hunt down…

    Quote:
    It is a change to make nullsec travel safer.
    Not with all those mass-murdering unstoppable interceptors flying around, it isn't.


    Why do you fly an inty?

  • Your are out soloing. Combat inties are great for this, and the taranis is one of my favorite ships. It's been put in its place with the changes to AF's, dessies, and frigate hulls, but it is still a solid ship. Your primary targets here are other interceptors, frigate hulls, dessie hulls, and cruiser hulls. To be honest, most people won't engage anything other than t1 frigates and other interceptors with these.

  • You are skirmishing for a fleet. Fleet inties have the dps of a feather pillow and generally perform the roles of scouting and skirmishing for a larger group.

  • Fast travel. Their ability to power out of bubbles, or power back to gate, combined with their high warp speed and quick align times makes them a great traveling ship.

  • This change makes it so fast travel requires no preparation and is generally safer than ever.
    This change makes it so skirmishing for a fleet is safer, and you don't have to worry about drag bubble traps to gank your inty before backup arrives.

    Catching interceptors in a bubble is a major deal when engaging them, as the distance at which you start the combat is pivotal in the success of the combat, especially when under time constraints because of their backup.

    This change essentially removes interceptors from non-consensual PvP.