These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Interdiction Nullfied Interceptors are not acceptable!!!

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#41 - 2013-09-27 19:33:48 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

This change is just bad!


For solo bubble campers, sure.

For small gangs that want to take a squad of inties out and troll nullsec, it's a great change.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#42 - 2013-09-27 19:40:47 UTC
Roime wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Your both missing the big picture...

I get most of my inty kills by setting up a drag bubble. An inty pilot enters system and warps to my gate feeling overconfident because they have a fleet behind them. The inty lands in my bubble, I destroy him, and warp out as his fleet lands. This provides several advantages, especially the ability to be "at zero" on the inty when it lands. This also only catches the overconfident moronic inty pilots that don't have bookmarks, and warp gate to gate. This is a very reasonable playstyle for beginner solo pilots in frigs and the like.

With this change, the status quo will move to insta-locking RSB ships on a gate. IMO, I think insta-locking ships are ridiculous, not to mention much harder to avoid than a simple drag bubble.


I think you've somehow now blinded by something, and refuse to see how incredibly weak your cause here is.

Do you actually claim that killing newbro inty pilots with drag bubbles and bailing before pvp happens is a very reasonable playstyle? Is that your "big picture"? Seriously, Agony?



It is one of many tactics used in Assymetric Engagements. Quite often we run into situations where we have quite a bit fewer targets than our opponent. Setting up traps to kill their scouts and get out. Using bubbles to split their fleet to engage-able chunks, etc.

I see this change as generally a means to make nullsec safer, which is the wrong direction.

Realize, there are several incoming features that I believe will be great for nullsec PvP, I just think more interdiction nullified ships is a bad thing!
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-09-27 20:16:20 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
From a gatecamp perspective, the solution to this has existed for some time in the form of remote sensor boosters. Remote sebo a thrasher, interceptor, or dissolution sequenced Legion/Loki and you can lock anyone before they cloak/warp. This has been done for some time in lowsec, so you don't even have to adapt that much really, just copy what others have been doing for years.

Likewise, they did not remove "splitting a gang," they simply changed it. Now, if an enemy fleet warps to the sun (that is bubbled), the interceptors will be separated from the main fleet, and you can pick them off.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2013-09-27 20:17:20 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I get most of my inty kills by setting up a drag bubble.


Translation: I am a one trick pony who fears having to master new tactics.


This is a nerf to bubbles, which are used to control the engagement range at the start of a fight in many, many situations.

Want to durka that goon hornet gang, put a bubble at the sun, and as they are chasing you, warp to it and smartbomb. Now all inty pilots will warp in at 20 km's and be safe.

I could give other examples, but generally speaking, when you want to catch a fast ship, it is ideal to start the engagement at zero. Bubbles are the most common means to do this, and the new inty mechanics essentially make an significant class of these ships immune.



think of it less as fewer inties dieing and more as a lot more fleeing fleets having stagglers tackled. Having smaller ships being able to arrive faster than big ships is hugely desirable and one of many changes i am excited about.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-09-27 20:27:03 UTC
I am definitely in favor of this change. One of the best examples I can personally think of was chasing a gang of Nagas in my Crow. I was chasing them gate to gate with our main fleet lagging behind me, and I wasn't able to catch them to tackle one, because of defensive bubbles and unequal warp speeds. An Interceptor should be able to catch Battlecruisers and larger ships, and force the fleet to turn and engage to safe their compatriot, or leave him to die.

I am worried about the mention of an HP nerf to Interceptors, as they die quickly, and rely on speed and signature tanking as it stands. At least with the Crow the lack of midslots makes it hard to defend, even with EWAR or a MSE. It's a tough line to tread staying in point range and not getting scrammed and dying, or killed before your fleet arrives, and obviously takes a lot of experience in manual flying to get right.

I have no problem with the reduced cargo space, that seems like a fair tradeoff for speed. Preventing Interceptors from tackling and lighting cynos seems balanced as well.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#46 - 2013-09-27 20:32:10 UTC
Ransu Asanari wrote:
I am definitely in favor of this change. One of the best examples I can personally think of was chasing a gang of Nagas in my Crow. I was chasing them gate to gate with our main fleet lagging behind me, and I wasn't able to catch them to tackle one, because of defensive bubbles and unequal warp speeds. An Interceptor should be able to catch Battlecruisers and larger ships, and force the fleet to turn and engage to safe their compatriot, or leave him to die.

I am worried about the mention of an HP nerf to Interceptors, as they die quickly, and rely on speed and signature tanking as it stands. At least with the Crow the lack of midslots makes it hard to defend, even with EWAR or a MSE. It's a tough line to tread staying in point range and not getting scrammed and dying, or killed before your fleet arrives, and obviously takes a lot of experience in manual flying to get right.

I have no problem with the reduced cargo space, that seems like a fair tradeoff for speed. Preventing Interceptors from tackling and lighting cynos seems balanced as well.


I love the warp acceleration change.... I just think defensive bubbling should be a viable tactic to slow you down! I'm really not a fan of interdiction nullified ships, and I see no good reason to make interceptors nullified!
Ahriantis
The Forsakened Few
We Forsakened Few
#47 - 2013-09-27 20:32:20 UTC
This is a tear-thread about a change that benefits everyone but the solo-bubblers/gate campers. The change is coming and it's pretty much final. Learn a new trick.
Tikitina
Doomheim
#48 - 2013-09-27 20:38:23 UTC
Sounds like a refreshing change.

I like these new counters becoming part of the hull instead of just adding new mods.

It seems like the OP just wants to protect a niche style of gameplay at the expense of moving the game forward.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#49 - 2013-09-27 21:08:54 UTC
This assumes that facilitating movement is a bad thing. Making camping effective encourage people to sit on their asses and results in less actual interesting content.
Ribeye Jaksom
ElitistOps
Deepwater Hooligans
#50 - 2013-09-27 21:13:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ribeye Jaksom
Another stealth sabre nerf. Hey lets make the only ship class left it can still kill, that it SPECIALIZED in killing, bubble immune!
**** this gay game.
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-09-27 21:15:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Ransu Asanari
Odd, my reply got deleted and I ended up quoting myself. Will fix later.
Ribeye Jaksom
ElitistOps
Deepwater Hooligans
#52 - 2013-09-27 21:17:36 UTC
They were ALREADY nearly impossible to catch WITHOUT bubble immunity. If this change goes through, they will be untouchable. Its ridiculous anyone thinks this is a good idea.
Tikitina
Doomheim
#53 - 2013-09-27 21:20:12 UTC
Ribeye Jaksom wrote:
Another stealth sabre nerf. Hey lets make the only ship class left it can still kill, that it SPECIALIZED in killing, bubble immune!
**** this gay game.


Adapt or die.

The inties adapted.
Ribeye Jaksom
ElitistOps
Deepwater Hooligans
#54 - 2013-09-27 21:36:57 UTC
Tikitina wrote:
Ribeye Jaksom wrote:
Another stealth sabre nerf. Hey lets make the only ship class left it can still kill, that it SPECIALIZED in killing, bubble immune!
**** this gay game.


Adapt or die.

The inties adapted.




shut up nerd
Tikitina
Doomheim
#55 - 2013-09-27 21:40:18 UTC
Ribeye Jaksom wrote:


shut up nerd


Ha!

Priceless example of having no real argument.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#56 - 2013-09-27 21:47:30 UTC
Tikitina wrote:
Sounds like a refreshing change.

I like these new counters becoming part of the hull instead of just adding new mods.

It seems like the OP just wants to protect a niche style of gameplay at the expense of moving the game forward.

......

Priceless example of having no real argument.



How about you put forward your argument:

How does bubble immunity help the interceptor?
--- Hint: The interceptor class generally chases ships. If it warps to a gate chasing another ship, but ignores bubbles, that means it doesn't land near it's desired target, inhibiting its ability as chaser tackle.

How exactly does this "move the game forward"?
--- Hint: If your answer can be summed up as, it enables safer movement throughout nullsec for interceptors, why are you using an interceptor to begin with when a covops performs that role?

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#57 - 2013-09-27 21:54:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
How does bubble immunity help the interceptor?
--- Hint: The interceptor class generally chases ships. If it warps to a gate chasing another ship, but ignores bubbles, that means it doesn't land near it's desired target, inhibiting its ability as chaser tackle.
…but the target is tackled, as intended, so it works out very nicely.

Quote:
How exactly does this "move the game forward"?
By introducing new tactics and proper operational manoeuvring and requiring something more clever than just dumping bubbles everywhere, thereby smartening up the game considerably for everyone involved.

Since tactics to catch these interceptors have already been developed (or more accurately have been there all along), not even the potential problem of making them difficult to kill exists. All around an excellent change of mechanics.
Tikitina
Doomheim
#58 - 2013-09-27 21:59:00 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Tikitina wrote:
Sounds like a refreshing change.

I like these new counters becoming part of the hull instead of just adding new mods.

It seems like the OP just wants to protect a niche style of gameplay at the expense of moving the game forward.

......

Priceless example of having no real argument.



How about you put forward your argument:

How does bubble immunity help the interceptor?
--- Hint: The interceptor class generally chases ships. If it warps to a gate chasing another ship, but ignores bubbles, that means it doesn't land near it's desired target, inhibiting its ability as chaser tackle.

For one, It allows inties to avoid the delaying tactics of Dictors dropping bubbles to help their group disengage a pursuing group as one example

How exactly does this "move the game forward"?
--- Hint: If your answer can be summed up as, it enables safer movement throughout nullsec for interceptors, why are you using an interceptor to begin with when a covops performs that role?

It creates the possibility of new gameplay by breaking some existing, what many consider stagnate, gameplay



Inline

Plus, the fact that intie pilots will have to account for their new found ability that can prevent them from catching someone who is caught by a bubble while they are not means that this new ability would be a dual edged sword, which is inline with what Eve is about.
Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#59 - 2013-09-27 22:01:06 UTC
Montevius Williams wrote:
I love the idea. Interceptors should be able to...you know...intercept.

This is a good move.

I'm in this category. While I respect the OP's reasoning, I'm am swayed by CCP's concept of an interdictor having full reign of all the space they travel through.

The OP's objections are mostly on tactical grounds - that current tactics would be rendered unusable. I hear those objections, but I'll suggest that Eve capsuleers are a wily bunch who will quickly adapt with fresh, new, and maybe even more devestating tactics.

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#60 - 2013-09-27 22:07:17 UTC
Ribeye Jaksom wrote:
They were ALREADY nearly impossible to catch WITHOUT bubble immunity. If this change goes through, they will be untouchable. Its ridiculous anyone thinks this is a good idea.

Well now you're just full of ****. Interceptors are the T2 ships that die the most in Eve, and always have been. I suppose none of those dead interceptors were "caught."