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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

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oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#2021 - 2013-09-25 15:29:39 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
"Ultimate sci fi simulator"? I don't know what do you mean. Does anyone know what does it mean? Is it something like "ultimate simulator of fantasy world?

I think we can, for now, savely assume that EVE will not become said complete (or ultimate, if you will) sci-fie simulator CCP envisioned only a few short years ago... at least not in one game/on one platform.


It's got Starships & Spreadsheets, what else do you want? Lol




Spreadsheets? EvE will never die ,EvE has a future

EvE can always be changed into a fancy Microsoft Office Tool,So you can tell your boss it is a moving background from an old game .

R.S.I2014
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#2022 - 2013-09-25 16:43:17 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
Ok that's it guyz, that does it for me Evil I've had it with so many WiS promises and Abatar Bizionses Evil From now on I'll wear only black in mourning and be the Man in Black.


Well, you wonder why I always dress in black,
Why you never see bright colors on my back,
And why does my appearance seem to have a somber tone.
Well, there's a reason for the things that I have on.

I wear the black for the barbies, furries and emoters,
Livin' in the hopeless, hungry side of empty stations,
I wear it for the capsuleer who has long paid for his subs,
But is there because he's a victim of the goons.

I wear the black for those who never read,
Or listened to the words that Jesus said,
About the road to happiness through love and WiS,
Why, you'd think He's talking straight to you and me.

Well, we're doin' mighty fine, I do suppose,
In our streak of lightnin' Dusts and fancy Valkyries,
But just so we're reminded of the ones who are held back,
Up front there ought 'a be a Man In Black.

I wear it for the capsuleers and PC players,
For the reckless ones whose consoles left them cold,
I wear the black in mournin' for the subs that could have been,
Each week we lose a hundred fine young players.

And, I wear it for the thousands who have subbed,
Believen' that CCP was on their side,
I wear it for another hundred thousand who have subbed,
Believen' that we all were on their side.

Well, there's things that never will be right I know,
And things need changin' everywhere you go,
But 'til we start to make a move to make a few things right,
You'll never see me wear a suit of white.

Ah, I'd love to wear a rainbow every day,
And tell the world that everything's OK,
But I'll try to carry off a little darkness on my back,
'Till things are brighter, I'm the Man In Black.
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2023 - 2013-09-25 18:28:25 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Montevius Williams wrote:
SO this is two things that the community would really want that CCP is like "screw you"

Avatar Gameplay
HD Graphics

So much for the "Ultimate sci fi simulator"


"Ultimate sci fi simulator"? I don't know what do you mean. Does anyone know what does it mean? Is it something like "ultimate simulator of fantasy world?

What features must it have?

Simulated physics? Realism? Eve has crude "CCP physics". EVE flight and physics model is poor.

Simulated galaxy far away? More like pseudo interstellar space, I mean boxes textured with really nice nebulas.
We are talking about stationary objects in space, and i can see the whiter seems where walls are joining together.
Wormholes tried to make things more interesting, there are even black holes, but with effects one can tell are completely random from physics point of view. Stations are, for example a nice gem in the whole game as they are more like magic boxes with infinite space inside the normal space. Dimensions compacted in dimensions? No one knows.

Human interactions simulations? EVE is real. NPCs are just mission windows or pixels flying and shooting at you, ocassionally buying some overseer personal effects in stations.

Many things lore wise like breathing in capsules is problematic, because in reality human lungs can not operate with liquids, we would need external blood oxygenators and CO2 removers with direct bloodstream connection.

Definitely ultimate simulation of NEW EDEN it is, but make from it what you wish. CCP can't do simulation miracles for you. Even when we talk about spaceships, galaxy and human technology in space.


Hey, dont look at me. I didnt make the quote "Ultimate Sci Fi Simulator"...your boy CCP t0rfifrans always says that when he has a chance lol

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#2024 - 2013-09-25 18:57:59 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Montevius Williams wrote:
SO this is two things that the community would really want that CCP is like "screw you"

Avatar Gameplay
HD Graphics

So much for the "Ultimate sci fi simulator"


"Ultimate sci fi simulator"? I don't know what do you mean. Does anyone know what does it mean? Is it something like "ultimate simulator of fantasy world?

What features must it have?

Simulated physics? Realism? Eve has crude "CCP physics". EVE flight and physics model is poor.

Simulated galaxy far away? More like pseudo interstellar space, I mean boxes textured with really nice nebulas.
We are talking about stationary objects in space, and i can see the whiter seems where walls are joining together.
Wormholes tried to make things more interesting, there are even black holes, but with effects one can tell are completely random from physics point of view. Stations are, for example a nice gem in the whole game as they are more like magic boxes with infinite space inside the normal space. Dimensions compacted in dimensions? No one knows.

Human interactions simulations? EVE is real. NPCs are just mission windows or pixels flying and shooting at you, ocassionally buying some overseer personal effects in stations.

Many things lore wise like breathing in capsules is problematic, because in reality human lungs can not operate with liquids, we would need external blood oxygenators and CO2 removers with direct bloodstream connection.

Definitely ultimate simulation of NEW EDEN it is, but make from it what you wish. CCP can't do simulation miracles for you. Even when we talk about spaceships, galaxy and human technology in space.



Hmmm So that is were the word Fiction in the phrase"Science Fiction" is for Blink

R.S.I2014
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#2025 - 2013-09-25 19:14:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Even fiction have to be "real" sometimes.
As for Torfifrans, he isn't to blame for everything, and even he thought the "ultimate scfi simulation" could be worked on more. Of course it will have not much work especially WIS for obvious reasons, they talked about them many times.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Flamespar
WarRavens
#2026 - 2013-09-26 07:39:10 UTC
Well only a couple of hours left until we find out if CCP plan on introducing any avatar functionality in the next expansion.

Prepare for disappointment.

I predict a re-skinning of an existing feature (industry is my guess) and a couple extra ships.

I also predict an overuse of phrases like "Innovative" "huge" and "revolutionary".
EmpireOfDust
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2027 - 2013-09-26 10:14:31 UTC
Will the environments be pre-built or procedurally generated?

I ask because pre-built while taking less time to get off the ground initially, get really boring really fast. I'd much rather wait a bit longer and get procedural environments for exploration and stuff, rather than walk down the same hallways in exploration sites throughout new eden.
Flamespar
WarRavens
#2028 - 2013-09-26 11:00:24 UTC
I think there was some talk about them consisting of a bunch of modules (rooms) that would be put together semi randomly.
CCP Bayesian
#2029 - 2013-09-26 11:43:13 UTC
EmpireOfDust wrote:
Will the environments be pre-built or procedurally generated?

I ask because pre-built while taking less time to get off the ground initially, get really boring really fast. I'd much rather wait a bit longer and get procedural environments for exploration and stuff, rather than walk down the same hallways in exploration sites throughout new eden.


The idea has always been to procedurally generate content from set pieces, think of the way a boardgame like Warhammer Quest works. It's an easily extensible way of working that also lets you get high quality art in which can be a problem with purely procedural content. Generally though I'd of liked to have some rhyme and reason to layouts so you could enter a structure or ship and know what area you were in and have a good likelihood of knowing where you wanted to go in relation to it.

Sadly, as per the original post, we're not actively working on avatar exploration at the moment. :(

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#2030 - 2013-09-26 11:56:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
CCP Bayesian wrote:
EmpireOfDust wrote:
Will the environments be pre-built or procedurally generated?

I ask because pre-built while taking less time to get off the ground initially, get really boring really fast. I'd much rather wait a bit longer and get procedural environments for exploration and stuff, rather than walk down the same hallways in exploration sites throughout new eden.


The idea has always been to procedurally generate content from set pieces, think of the way a boardgame like Warhammer Quest works. It's an easily extensible way of working that also lets you get high quality art in which can be a problem with purely procedural content. Generally though I'd of liked to have some rhyme and reason to layouts so you could enter a structure or ship and know what area you were in and have a good likelihood of knowing where you wanted to go in relation to it.

Sadly, as per the original post, we're not actively working on avatar exploration at the moment. :(


It's really good to hear from a Dev in this thread, but it does beg the question 'Why bother to post if there is no plan to ever implement this?'.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely appreciate your contribution and I would rather have you post here than not, but I have to ask the awkward question. Is there any plan for WiS? Because as they say (more or less), to fail to plan for it's implementation is more or less the same as planning to fail to implement it.

I do hate to put you on the spot, but there are no other questions worth asking except the awkward ones.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#2031 - 2013-09-26 12:07:25 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:


The idea has always been to procedurally generate content from set pieces, think of the way a boardgame like Warhammer Quest works. It's an easily extensible way of working that also lets you get high quality art in which can be a problem with purely procedural content. Generally though I'd of liked to have some rhyme and reason to layouts so you could enter a structure or ship and know what area you were in and have a good likelihood of knowing where you wanted to go in relation to it.

Sadly, as per the original post, we're not actively working on avatar exploration at the moment. :(


It's really good to hear from a Dev in this thread, but it does beg the question 'Why bother to post if there is no plan to ever implement this?'.


Maybe because there's a significant difference between "no plan to ever implement this" and "currently no plan to implement this".

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#2032 - 2013-09-26 12:12:13 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
Arduemont wrote:

It's really good to hear from a Dev in this thread, but it does beg the question 'Why bother to post if there is no plan to ever implement this?'.


Maybe because there's a significant difference between "no plan to ever implement this" and "currently no plan to implement this".


Well, there is "currently no plan to implement", the Walking In Stations prototype that were first shown as well. That was in 2006. I've been playing for coming on 5 years now and, although I love Eve, if it's going to take longer than 7 more years it might as well never be implemented as far as I am concerned.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#2033 - 2013-09-26 12:16:10 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
EmpireOfDust wrote:
Will the environments be pre-built or procedurally generated?

I ask because pre-built while taking less time to get off the ground initially, get really boring really fast. I'd much rather wait a bit longer and get procedural environments for exploration and stuff, rather than walk down the same hallways in exploration sites throughout new eden.


The idea has always been to procedurally generate content from set pieces, think of the way a boardgame like Warhammer Quest works. It's an easily extensible way of working that also lets you get high quality art in which can be a problem with purely procedural content. Generally though I'd of liked to have some rhyme and reason to layouts so you could enter a structure or ship and know what area you were in and have a good likelihood of knowing where you wanted to go in relation to it.

Sadly, as per the original post, we're not actively working on avatar exploration at the moment. :(

Procedural with very few restrictions would be fun, even have it generate stuff that is impossible to beat. Let us expect the unexpected.

I remember the early days of Apochrypha where we had no idea how things worked or what to expect. Now it is all documented to the nth degree so the excitement is gone.

How to win EVE
CCP Bayesian
#2034 - 2013-09-26 12:20:29 UTC
Basically the ball is in the court at the executive level in CCP. As per Unifex's post on the first page:

Quote:
The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, I’m looking at you).

So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. It’s a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it won’t mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars.


There are a bunch of people internally still enthusiastic about creating some things to actually do as an avatar but until such time as it's a priority for our Executive Board it's not going to happen.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#2035 - 2013-09-26 12:47:43 UTC
Thanks, Obama.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
#2036 - 2013-09-26 12:48:13 UTC
Well, it's not exactly the news I wanted to hear, but I do appreciate any info on what's going on at the moment so thanks BayesianBig smile

And so the wait continuesCry
Irya Boone
The Scope
#2037 - 2013-09-26 13:31:06 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Basically the ball is in the court at the executive level in CCP. As per Unifex's post on the first page:

Quote:
The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, I’m looking at you).

So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. It’s a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it won’t mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars.


There are a bunch of people internally still enthusiastic about creating some things to actually do as an avatar but until such time as it's a priority for our Executive Board it's not going to happen.



So why for god Sake did you worked ON DUST and Valkyrie can you explain that to me because i don't get it at all , people never ask you for dust and you put ressources to do it , people ask you for avatar exploration and " LET me get Out of this F... CQ" but you can't put ressources on it ... but you wasted Money , time , ressources for DUST 514 , and NO ONE ask you do that.

And How valkyrie came alive , a little Video game designer fairy do it alone in the country of the fairies to create it ?

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2038 - 2013-09-26 13:37:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Basically the ball is in the court at the executive level in CCP. As per Unifex's post on the first page:

Quote:
The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, I’m looking at you).

So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. It’s a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it won’t mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars.


There are a bunch of people internally still enthusiastic about creating some things to actually do as an avatar but until such time as it's a priority for our Executive Board it's not going to happen.


That's what we figured form CCP Seagull's mail & tweet to Arduemont. Up there at the top brass, they deem many other things more relevant than WiS... things like FPS.What?

They may be right or may be wrong, but hang me if I can figure any sensible way to change their mind, other than keep insisting, flogging them when their ideas flop and cheering them if they ever take a step in the right direction.

It would be more dramatic if we could unsub en masse or make something big ingame... but it's kind of difficult when you're a solo player stuck alone in an empty room. Bear

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#2039 - 2013-09-26 13:40:54 UTC
Irya Boone wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Basically the ball is in the court at the executive level in CCP. As per Unifex's post on the first page:

Quote:
The result of that planning highlighted that right now, we do not have the time or people to build this without impacting what we can deliver for our players who are flying in space. To create this will mean a considerable investment which will take time to put together and also a new focus for us just at a time when we as a company have another new game coming into the EVE Universe (yes DUST 514, I’m looking at you).

So, all that being said, we have a great concept to expand the EVE Universe but now is not the right time for us to take that step. It’s a step I very much want to take but I want to take it when it won’t mean removing developers and focus from flying in space. So, for the time being, watch this space with regards to exploration gameplay for EVE avatars.


There are a bunch of people internally still enthusiastic about creating some things to actually do as an avatar but until such time as it's a priority for our Executive Board it's not going to happen.



So why for god Sake did you worked ON DUST and Valkyrie can you explain that to me because i don't get it at all , people never ask you for dust and you put ressources to do it , people ask you for avatar exploration and " LET me get Out of this F... CQ" but you can't put ressources on it ... but you wasted Money , time , ressources for DUST 514 , and NO ONE ask you do that.

And How valkyrie came alive , a little Video game designer fairy do it alone in the country of the fairies to create it ?


That's because we're so low in CCP's social ladder that not just the whole rest of EVE is more relevant than us, but also the rest of CCP's games are more relevant than ours!Lol

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
CCP Bayesian
#2040 - 2013-09-26 15:10:45 UTC
Irya Boone wrote:
So why for god Sake did you worked ON DUST and Valkyrie can you explain that to me because i don't get it at all , people never ask you for dust and you put ressources to do it , people ask you for avatar exploration and " LET me get Out of this F... CQ" but you can't put ressources on it ... but you wasted Money , time , ressources for DUST 514 , and NO ONE ask you do that.

And How valkyrie came alive , a little Video game designer fairy do it alone in the country of the fairies to create it ?


Again these are decisions made by the Executive Board so I can't speak on their behalf. CCP is a company and these large scale decisions are like it or not business ones. Are they decisions everyone agrees with? Of course not but ultimately we at a development level can only pitch things and hope the timing and will works out. Which is very much the case for Valkyrie as not only did it get astonishing press but it coincided well with our Newcastle development team finishing their work on Dust.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter