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Increase PVP and combat afk cloaky camping
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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#241 - 2013-09-23 16:50:30 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Right, you can't rat with several buddies in corp/alliance in PvP ships now can you. Something like that? Why that is just crazy talk!

Roll

Why do i have to rat with several buddies just to be sure i can survive this unknown afk cloaker in local who might aswell sit and ********** to a **** movie.

So the question is, why should we be threatened to a cloaked afk guy who sits and ********** to a **** movie (to take an example) ?

If there had been any ways to actually see if the cloaker is active or afk, it would be something else then.


It is null sec. It is dangerous and uncertain...or at least is supposed to be. Don't like it leave, or adapt, or just dock up and watch that movie the AFK cloaker is watching. The choices are yours.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#242 - 2013-09-23 16:54:23 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
Behr Oroo wrote:
So let's say that Local is taken


if local is nerfed (I dont demand complete removal of it), cloak should be nerfed too then, thats right. But your ideas all come up on forums about afk cloaking completely ignore this true issue initially.


to be fair whilst your (and others) argument that local is over powered has merit and remains valid OP's idea is the first nerf to cloaking i have heard that didn't have be screaming nononononoNONONONO. Combined with a delayed local and/or removing cloaked ships from local and i think we are closer to a "solution" than we have been for ages.
especially if cloaked ships are removed from local then something like OP suggests would almost be required and would promote more active patrolling of territory.
i placed solution in inverted commas because i really don't have strong views on local or afk cloakers. i don't see that either need fixing but i agree that a change to one should come with a change to the other.


Checked the OP, nope didin't see anything about a delay to local. Anyone else see it in the OP?

Maybe if the guy who wrote the OP would support such a notion, we might get somewhere...but I doubt that will happen. Almost all AFK cloaking threads want a nerf to cloaks.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#243 - 2013-09-23 17:33:10 UTC
I fully believe that the afk-camper you're indirectly complaining about is still sitting in that exact same spot.

Also, lol to the 'scout'-vessel. That thing wuold obsolete wormhole-pvp. It would also mean that a titan couldn't run a drive-by-doomsday anymore, and nulli secunda could finally do something with those ishtars without using a forcefield-exploit... As bombers would be a thing of the past, thus counters to slowcats/ishtars would be ruled out of null warfare by the scout's existance.

Only flew over the 13 pages in between, but ye... this is a terrible proposal.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#244 - 2013-09-23 18:18:36 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Right, you can't rat with several buddies in corp/alliance in PvP ships now can you. Something like that? Why that is just crazy talk!

Roll

Why do i have to rat with several buddies just to be sure i can survive this unknown afk cloaker in local who might aswell sit and ********** to a **** movie.

So the question is, why should we be threatened to a cloaked afk guy who sits and ********** to a **** movie (to take an example) ?

If there had been any ways to actually see if the cloaker is active or afk, it would be something else then.


It is null sec. It is dangerous and uncertain...or at least is supposed to be. Don't like it leave, or adapt, or just dock up and watch that movie the AFK cloaker is watching. The choices are yours.

Yeah 0.0 space is dangerous, but as far as this conversation goes, you are saying that the afk cloaker should be safe while others have to live with danger all the time?

Do you see now why we want a way to find the AFK cloakers?

It's simple, if you want to live, be active. If you goes afk in space, you risk to get killed.

0.0 space should not be safe in any ways, and this applies to the afk cloakers as well.

You basicly shoot your own foot with that argument.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#245 - 2013-09-23 18:43:55 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
It is null sec. It is dangerous and uncertain...or at least is supposed to be. Don't like it leave, or adapt, or just dock up and watch that movie the AFK cloaker is watching. The choices are yours.

Yeah 0.0 space is dangerous, but as far as this conversation goes, you are saying that the afk cloaker should be safe while others have to live with danger all the time?

Do you see now why we want a way to find the AFK cloakers?

It's simple, if you want to live, be active. If you goes afk in space, you risk to get killed.

0.0 space should not be safe in any ways, and this applies to the afk cloakers as well.

You basicly shoot your own foot with that argument.


If you want to hunt the predators, step one is accepting that balance already exists.

Any change you want to put in, such as being able to hunt cloaked vessels, has a price tag.

That price tag, for this item, is losing the free warning about the cloaked ship from local.

Agree to the price, or walk away.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Alundil
Rolled Out
#246 - 2013-09-23 19:08:28 UTC
Behr Oroo wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
no, afk cloaking is fine and just a result of local as OP intel tool.

afk cloaking just reflects the power of local back on its abusers, this is all right.



So let's say that Local is taken from the game so that no one knows who is in system. The idea of my ship would be EVEN MORE needed cause then the cloakers would have true rule of every system. You wouldnt be able to undock from any station without fear of a cloaked group of players waiting on you. CCP would never allow this. WHY? cause people would start logging off and then simply stop playing.


Right.....CCP clearly agrees with you. So much so that they created 2498 distinct solar systems with this exact mechanic. And it is, arguably, the best place/feature in EVE Online. No immune AKF mining/combat characters. No super capitals / titans. No cyno fields. Random victims, visitors, invaders (depending on your perspective). Gameplay expectation changes from day to day.

I never, in 4 years, realized that CCP hates this type of gameplay and would never allow it in game. What the heck have I been playing in that time period? I don't even.....

Decloaking a cloaked ship with gate camps is trivially easy because 'spawn' range on gates is too small with the current meta of EVE (instalock BC hulls + boosted point and web ranges out to over 40km at a minimum).

Decloaking a cloaked ship which is performing active reconnaissance ought to be very difficult as the purpose of the cloaking module is to render the ship......wait for it.....undetectable.
Decloaking a cloaked ship which is not performing any task ought to be........wait, how did you know it was performing no task at all? Oh you didn't. I see.

Nothing further to see here. Carry on.

/thread (tosses this one up onto the ever-growing list of digital refuse and recycled material that is "Cloak" discussions)

I'm right behind you
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#247 - 2013-09-23 19:56:58 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Yeah 0.0 space is dangerous, but as far as this conversation goes, you are saying that the afk cloaker should be safe while others have to live with danger all the time?


Yep, they are 100% so long as they do nothing. So long as they do nothing, you are 100% safe.

What is bothering you is the uncertainty they they will continue to do nothing. You either want free intel or a way to remove the uncertainty...for nothing. After all, attacking and killing an AFK cloaked ship is easier that kicking a puppy.

Quote:
Do you see now why we want a way to find the AFK cloakers?


Yes, I do. You want to reduce the uncertainty you face and thereby increase your expected reward relative to expected loss--i.e. you want to make null safer.

Quote:
It's simple, if you want to live, be active. If you goes afk in space, you risk to get killed.

0.0 space should not be safe in any ways, and this applies to the afk cloakers as well.


So, can we have a mechanic to eject you from station in null if you go AFK? After all, why should you be safe, right?

Quote:
You basicly shoot your own foot with that argument.


Whatever, Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#248 - 2013-09-23 20:44:42 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Teckos Pech wrote:
What is bothering you is the uncertainty they they will continue to do nothing. You either want free intel or a way to remove the uncertainty...for nothing. After all, attacking and killing an AFK cloaked ship is easier that kicking a puppy.

But how do we know if they are doing nothing?

What makes us to believe that they actually are afk while we do stuffs in a system?

Again, why should we always be prepeared and in danger to an afk cloaker when they can just sits somewhere doing nothing without having any fear of getting killed or anything?

If we have to have danger, then should you.

Teckos Pech wrote:
Yes, I do. You want to reduce the uncertainty you face and thereby increase your expected reward relative to expected loss--i.e. you want to make null safer.

No, we want to make more PVP for both sides and make more risks for others who doesn't have any risks instead of only one of the sides to have risks / PVP.

Teckos Pech wrote:
So, can we have a mechanic to eject you from station in null if you go AFK? After all, why should you be safe, right?

No, because if you are in station, we know you are there and can monitor you and see if you undocks. When you are undocked in a cloaky ship, we don't know if you are afk, or just sitting 8 km from me ready to unleash the hell on me. So that's why i'm saying that the threat is so big for the other players that they will dock up no matter what. Or just log off.

The only place that will be safe is in station. So if you want to be safe, then dock up. If you can't dock up, then be active while you are in space so you don't die, or move to another system where you can dock in a station and be safe there.

Teckos Pech wrote:
Whatever, Roll

Roll

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Alundil
Rolled Out
#249 - 2013-09-23 22:13:58 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Quote:
What is bothering you is the uncertainty they they will continue to do nothing. You either want free intel or a way to remove the uncertainty...for nothing. After all, attacking and killing an AFK cloaked ship is easier that kicking a puppy.

1. But how do we know if they are doing nothing?

1.a. Again, why should we always be prepeared and in danger to an afk cloaker when they can just sits somewhere doing nothing without having any fear of getting killed or anything?

If we have to have danger, then should you.

Quote:
Yes, I do. You want to reduce the uncertainty you face and thereby increase your expected reward relative to expected loss--i.e. you want to make null safer.

2. No, we want to make more PVP for both sides and make more risks for others who doesn't have any risks instead of only one of the sides to have risks / PVP.

Quote:
So, can we have a mechanic to eject you from station in null if you go AFK? After all, why should you be safe, right?

3. No, because if you are in station, we know you are there and can monitor you and see if you undocks. When you are undocked in a cloaky ship, we don't know if you are afk, or just sitting 8 km from me ready to unleash the hell on me. So that's why i'm saying that the threat is so big for the other players that they will dock up no matter what. Or just log off.Roll

I numbered your points for you

1 - If you undock in a system in any system below 0.5 you should be mentally prepared to fight and possibly die. Everytime. No matter what. If this is not something you are prepared to do then you are in the wrong security level of New Eden. Concord has a place for you right up the road from here. Idyllic vistas included free of charge.

2 - You have no idea whether the person you see in local but not on you d-scan or overview is present at the keyboard or not. Repeat after me, "I have no idea whether they are AFK or not." Three more times please for good measure and daily for the next 21 days. It takes 21 days, so they say, to form a habit.
With that out of the way; The absolute ONLY things you know about that person are the following:
* You can see them in local
* You cannot see them on overview
* You cannot see them on d-scan

You know nothing else about that person at all.
Here is a list of some things that they COULD be doing with you none the wiser:
* They could be in a POS somewhere off grid from you doing tower management.
* They could be in a POS somewhere off grid from you manipulating the market.
* They could be gathering intelligence about POS in system, known corps and pilots.
* They could be exploring various anomalies and signatures looking for something to loot or kill and loot.
* They could be involved in a detailed conversation with someone on the other side of New Eden.
* They could be picking their nose, fapping to furry fiction or any other assorted "hands free" activities.
Literally thousands of which could be performed while cloaked, while sitting in front of the keyboard, while looking identical to you, the timid observer.

3 - Your complaint here doesn't matter in the slightest. As stated in point 1, if you undock in space with a security lower than 0.5 you should already expect to be attacked and have to defend yourself. If you can't be bothered to take basic precautions and situational awareness into account when you live in "dangerous" space then there is nothing more to say to you on the matter. You need to move back to space above 0.5 where you can be reasonably assured of the ability to mine and/or rat passively with little to no risk at all. But you are in the wrong space to be attempting that.

Having lived in "ratter's paradise" for a period there was no shortage of people camping various constellations. You either ignore them, learn to bait them into committing and kill them (they then leave you alone for a while) or die trying. Anything else is YOU (not necessarily you) refusing to play EVE simply because someone else isn't playing the same way you are.

I'm right behind you
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#250 - 2013-09-23 22:16:10 UTC
Quote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
What is bothering you is the uncertainty they they will continue to do nothing. You either want free intel or a way to remove the uncertainty...for nothing. After all, attacking and killing an AFK cloaked ship is easier that kicking a puppy.

But how do we know if they are doing nothing?

What makes us to believe that they actually are afk while we do stuffs in a system?

Again, why should we always be prepeared and in danger to an afk cloaker when they can just sits somewhere doing nothing without having any fear of getting killed or anything?

If we have to have danger, then should you.


You don't know for sure. That is just how it is. Adapt and deal with it...or don't.

Quote:
No, we want to make more PVP for both sides and make more risks for others who doesn't have any risks instead of only one of the sides to have risks / PVP.


No, you don't. You want to shoot a guy who is not at his key board so you can go back to ratting with greater certainty.

[quote]No, because if you are in station, we know you are there and can monitor you and see if you undocks. When you are undocked in a cloaky ship, we don't know if you are afk, or just sitting 8 km from me ready to unleash the hell on me. So that's why i'm saying that the threat is so big for the other players that they will dock up no matter what. Or just log off.

The only place that will be safe is in station. So if you want to be safe, then dock up. If you can't dock up, then be active while you are in space so you don't die, or move to another system where you can dock in a station and be safe there.


I don't know if you are docked or not unless I can dock too. And in Sov space that is unlikely. So...you could be docked, or sitting cloaked. I don't know if you are AFK either. And you could undock and unlease hell on me too. So, we can get a module to undock AFK players in stations and outposts too. Great, can't wait.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#251 - 2013-09-23 22:20:58 UTC
Alundil wrote:
fapping to furry fiction or any other assorted "hands free" activities.


Shocked

Hands free fapping? You sir are a man of impressive talent. I salute you. Lol

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#252 - 2013-09-23 22:26:58 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Teckos Pech wrote:
You don't know for sure. That is just how it is. Adapt and deal with it...or don't.

No, you should adapt to have more danger in the same way as all others have danger.

Isn't it all funny that you say 0.0 space should be dangerous and all and at the same time want afk cloakers to totally safe there?

No one should be safe there. It's that simple.

Teckos Pech wrote:
No, you don't. You want to shoot a guy who is not at his key board so you can go back to ratting with greater certainty.

If he's not at his keyboard, he should not sit in space. It's that simple.

Oh, such a horror, do i really want to shoot an afk player in the same way as you want to kill a carebear with no intentions to shoot back?

Again, if you're not with your keyboard and want to be safe, then dock up or log off.

Teckos Pech wrote:
I don't know if you are docked or not unless I can dock too. And in Sov space that is unlikely. So...you could be docked, or sitting cloaked. I don't know if you are AFK either. And you could undock and unlease hell on me too. So, we can get a module to undock AFK players in stations and outposts too. Great, can't wait.

If you are in a sov space owned by others, how do you then expect to be totally safe then?

If you are there, you absolutely have to be active to not be killed. In NPC 0.0 space it's a little easier as you can dock up in every stations.

TLDR: Everyone should have risks and danger when we are out in the dangerous 0.0 space.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Alundil
Rolled Out
#253 - 2013-09-23 22:28:58 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Alundil wrote:
fapping to furry fiction or any other assorted "hands free" activities.


Shocked

Hands free fapping? You sir are a man of impressive talent. I salute you. Lol

Wife :D
(They are "Realer than EVE")

I'm right behind you
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#254 - 2013-09-23 22:38:01 UTC
Quote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
You don't know for sure. That is just how it is. Adapt and deal with it...or don't.


No, you should adapt to have more danger in the same way as all others have danger.


I have a cloak. When it is active I am a danger to no other players....and they are not a danger to me...well unless I'm unlucky.

See, that is balanced. Maybe we could let people who are cloaked shoot you and keep the cloak and you could use your probes, yes?

Quote:
Oh, such a horror, do i really want to shoot an afk player in the same way as you want to kill a carebear with no intentions to shoot back?


You could, you know, try shooting back. You do fit guns or missiles or something that causes damage to most of your ships right? I usually do, even when I'm carebearing. Well okay, not when I'm in a freighter or doing PI, but most other times yeah.

[quote]If you are in a sov space owned by others, how do you then expect to be totally safe then?


Only when cloaked at a safe. Of course, I can't do much other then that, can I except just sit there to maintain my 100% safety. So you are safe too. Granted you don't know that, but then again nothing says you are entitled to know that. Now if I warp around the system I could land in a bubble on a POS and get decloaked and targeted and killed. Or if I jump through a gate I could walk into a camp or roam and die there. So much for being at my keyboard and being safe. Sheesh. P

And it doesn't matter, you could be there in station and suddenly come out guns blazing! And you face no risk! It is an outrage I tell you. P

Tell you what, for this increased certainty you want, how about we add a 15 second delay to when local updates. That way, when a hostile comes in it will be 15 seconds before you see him. At the same time you get probes that can tell you where this scary AFK cloaky is and you can "PvP" him.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#255 - 2013-09-23 22:53:12 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Teckos Pech wrote:
I have a cloak. When it is active I am a danger to no other players....and they are not a danger to me...well unless I'm unlucky.

See, that is balanced. Maybe we could let people who are cloaked shoot you and keep the cloak and you could use your probes, yes?

That's not the point. The point is that those players should have a way to make sure they can be safe by removing that afk cloaker in the same way as you can make sure to be safe by cloaking up.

Why can't the others be safe in space by killing you when you can kill them and be pretty much safe all the way?

Again, this is not about those who are active while being cloaked, those will do whatever they like to. It's ONLY about those afk cloakers who just sits there in space to **** off the others in the system while having no risks or danger of dying while the others have to fly around all the time in big risks and danger as they don't know if you are afk or not.

Teckos Pech wrote:
You could, you know, try shooting back. You do fit guns or missiles or something that causes damage to most of your ships right? I usually do, even when I'm carebearing. Well okay, not when I'm in a freighter or doing PI, but most other times yeah.

What does that help when you just cynos in alot of others to kill him?

Yeah, he might kill 1 in a fire before he dies, but he had no ways of surviving.

Why should he accept to die in a fire when you can't accept to actually die in a fire if you go afk while being cloaked in space?

Teckos Pech wrote:
Only when cloaked at a safe. Of course, I can't do much other then that, can I except just sit there to maintain my 100% safety. So you are safe too. Granted you don't know that, but then again nothing says you are entitled to know that. Now if I warp around the system I could land in a bubble on a POS and get decloaked and targeted and killed. Or if I jump through a gate I could walk into a camp or roam and die there. So much for being at my keyboard and being safe. Sheesh. P

And it doesn't matter, you could be there in station and suddenly come out guns blazing! And you face no risk! It is an outrage I tell you. P

Tell you what, for this increased certainty you want, how about we add a 15 second delay to when local updates. That way, when a hostile comes in it will be 15 seconds before you see him. At the same time you get probes that can tell you where this scary AFK cloaky is and you can "PvP" him.

Again, you are in 0.0 space where no one should be safe anywhere except for stations and POS'es to some points. And you haven't answered me on how we / those who are in the system with you as a cloaker actually knows if you are out of their way or are after them?

It's about them and not about you arguing that YOU are no danger to them when it's all about what the others in system thinks.

I hope i don't have to repeat this 437568 times, but as long there is no way for a player even with alts to find out if you are afk or active, it means that they wont take any risks and will dock up or just log off while you are there. Again, why should a player who are afk in a cloaked ship be in a way that it makes it dangerous to the others in the system as it is now?

If there had been a way to actually see if you are afk or not, this conversation would be something else.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Alundil
Rolled Out
#256 - 2013-09-24 03:23:05 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
I ignore things I don't like

You're not repeating the prescribed mantra. Let me print it again for you in case you missed it.
"I have no idea whether they are AFK or not"
"I have no idea whether they are AFK or not"
"I have no idea whether they are AFK or not"
"I have no idea whether they are AFK or not"
"I have no idea whether they are AFK or not"

You do not know whether any pilot in system, aside from one you are actively engaged with (combat or conversation), is at the keyboard or not. Yet, in order for your (and all other anti-cloak) argument you must insist on the ASSUMPTION that a pilot you do not know and who is not talking to you MUST be AFK. That is the only thing you can do with your argument. However it's a faulty assumption. Even CCP has no "good" way of knowing who is AFK or not (short of some GM opening a convo with the person - which must have some sort of response I'd wager).

As to how many times you ultimately repeat yourself, it might be your stated number + n. I say this because you and others spend an inordinate amount of time creating these posts about a module created by CCP to have one singular purpose. Which it performs precisely as it was designed (kudos btw CCP ). We should be showering them with gifts wrought of the proceeds from aurum.

Lo, they hath begat a device whose mean leads directly to its end. Bravo.

All else is but noise (or if you prefer "All sound and no fury" or perhaps the ever popular "Much ado about nothing."

I'm right behind you
Juan Thang
Optimistic Wasteland Inc.
Fraternity.
#257 - 2013-09-24 04:08:43 UTC
This is an awesome idea +2
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#258 - 2013-09-24 05:48:13 UTC
NightmareX wrote:

I hope i don't have to repeat this 437568 times, but as long there is no way for a player even with alts to find out if you are afk or active, it means that they wont take any risks and will dock up or just log off while you are there. Again, why should a player who are afk in a cloaked ship be in a way that it makes it dangerous to the others in the system as it is now?

If there had been a way to actually see if you are afk or not, this conversation would be something else.


No, normal players do take risks everywhere, this so-called AFK cloaking problem is only a problem for nullseccers who insist they have a right ot run their bots.

Normal players have never complained about cloaks. And botting is the only thing AFK cloaks prevent.

You are a botter.

.
JIeoH Mocc
brotherhood of desman
#259 - 2013-09-24 06:40:25 UTC
Roime wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

I hope i don't have to repeat this 437568 times, but as long there is no way for a player even with alts to find out if you are afk or active, it means that they wont take any risks and will dock up or just log off while you are there. Again, why should a player who are afk in a cloaked ship be in a way that it makes it dangerous to the others in the system as it is now?

If there had been a way to actually see if you are afk or not, this conversation would be something else.


No, normal players do take risks everywhere, this so-called AFK cloaking problem is only a problem for nullseccers who insist they have a right ot run their bots.

Normal players have never complained about cloaks. And botting is the only thing AFK cloaks prevent.

You are a botter.



Some of them are so bad , they run their bots by hand!
Xionyxa
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#260 - 2013-09-24 08:09:11 UTC
Roime wrote:
NightmareX wrote:

I hope i don't have to repeat this 437568 times, but as long there is no way for a player even with alts to find out if you are afk or active, it means that they wont take any risks and will dock up or just log off while you are there. Again, why should a player who are afk in a cloaked ship be in a way that it makes it dangerous to the others in the system as it is now?

If there had been a way to actually see if you are afk or not, this conversation would be something else.


No, normal players do take risks everywhere, this so-called AFK cloaking problem is only a problem for nullseccers who insist they have a right ot run their bots.

Normal players have never complained about cloaks. And botting is the only thing AFK cloaks prevent.

You are a botter.



Botting is a separate issue, it's has nothing to do with the cloaky camper (afk/not afk cloaker) issue, local intel issue or the lack of risk ratting/mining issue and for that matter why would a bot script be worried about a red in system. Things like botting that are a ban-able offence should be brought up with GMs, not whined about on the forums.