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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai

Likes received: 4,252

#1961 - 2013-09-22 20:10:08 UTC

Ariel Dawn wrote:

WiS/Incarna like stuff however is needed in order to keep EVE relevant and prevent it from becoming stagnant. Ship balancing for the last 2 years has been nice, but in terms of game-change mechanics that keep players interested in their product, new stuff has been very, very minimal. Refinement can only go so far.

Look at WoW, their system of "level cap and bunch of raids" has worked well for them, but it's starting to fail as people are tired of the same content dressed up in different graphics.

Plus, people on the forums are always the loudest/cry the most. If you ask the average normal EVE player, they'll tell you that they would have liked more stuff along the lines of Incarna if it was delivered properly. A single room with no player interaction was a flop; if they had introduced bars, mini-games or relevant activities along side of it then it would have been a completely different ball game.

Apparently they're throwing the baby with the water. Neither gameplay nor anything avatar-ish. They save it fo a future vision, which may be sensible, but is not wise nor honest.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

raven666wings

Cyber Chaos Crew

Likes received: 567

#1962 - 2013-09-22 20:13:13 UTC

Our friend Anonymous Employee also thinks ppl at CCP have visions:

Anonymous Employee (Former Employee) wrote:

“Visions of grandeur killed a great company”

I worked at CCP full-time

Pros – Anyone who doesn't rank above director is great to work with. Food prepared and served on premises is excellent. US health benefits are good.

Cons – Senior directors, VPs and members of the executive board are delusional, disconnected ego maniacs too busy patting each other on the back to see that they are sinking their ship.

Advice to Senior Management – Listen to the peons who are trying so hard to clean up the messes you make.

No, I would not recommend this company to a friend – I'm not optimistic about the outlook for this company

WarRavens 1,369
Flamespar WarRavens Likes received: 1,369	#1963 - 2013-09-22 20:15:26 UTC Welcome to CCP. Where everything is promised, but nothing is guaranteed. I look forward to next the fanfest where they will no doubt change their mind again and deliver a new uber(TM) vision.

Tanthalassa

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 195

#1964 - 2013-09-22 20:17:23 UTC

Ariel Dawn wrote:

The way I see it, CCP cornered themselves by promising "free" expansions.
Now, proper released Incarna/WiS would cost 'em quite a penny. Nobody wants to work for free, all while we certainly wouldn't mind to have it free of charge.
Whatever they are willing to provide as an expansion is very different from our desires. That includes everybody here - not only WiS proponents. The game patches that include iterations or whatever recycled content are doable for them, sure.

But to get away from the "free of charge" yet true expansions they spread the content around different platforms. "Dust to dust" was released in attempt to bring in micro-transactions. But the connection to Dust in Eve looked like another minigame. Just as PI or hacking minigames.

What they could do with WiS, is release it as optional content, fully integrated with Eve, but charge for it through Plex.
If it was quality content and not halfway done feature, it could actually work.


raven666wings Cyber Chaos Crew Likes received: 567	#1965 - 2013-09-22 20:18:35 UTC 1 Hope to meet and hang out with Anonymous Employee at Fanfest or EVE on a beach sometime... maybe at EVE Vegas

Ariel Dawn

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,888

#1966 - 2013-09-22 22:41:03 UTC

Tanthalassa wrote:

Ariel Dawn wrote:

I'd be more than happy to pay for a fully fledged Incarna experience as an addon to the existing EVE universe. That way all the whiners who don't want it don't have to buy it, and it's not "wasted resources" as CCP gets compensation for it.

raven666wings

Cyber Chaos Crew

Likes received: 567

#1967 - 2013-09-23 00:19:47 UTC

Ariel Dawn wrote:

Yep, and even if a grumpy clique would unsub it would be a pittance compared to the hordes of people that would flock into EVE buying subs and PLEX/Aurum to pimp up their characters.

Caldari Provisions Caldari State 358
Soulpirate Caldari Provisions Caldari State Likes received: 358	#1968 - 2013-09-23 05:48:40 UTC 1 Something tells me, come thursday there will still be a carrot.


Flamespar WarRavens Likes received: 1,369	#1969 - 2013-09-23 06:40:58 UTC 1 A picture of a carrot on a t shirt probably. Or just the middle finger.

Cade Windstalker

Likes received: 1,631

#1970 - 2013-09-23 09:52:31 UTC

Rhes wrote:

Arduemont wrote:

The sheer volume of drivel that comes out of Rhes is frankly amazing.

All of your arguments have been covered time and time again throughout this thread. I remember now why I stopped posting before, because I got tired of repeating myself to people who will just throw the same discredited arguments up over and over again.

I haven't seen a single person discredit anything I've posted. Can you find some links for me?

I'm sure that you won't mind stepping up and providing intelligent counter points to some old posts then! Lol

Here's a few for you to respond to, I even only went back a few pages.

Falstaf asking for a source for your active subscription numbers. You never responded. Also before you just link MMOData again I would like to point out that they have only two data points after early 2012 which leaves about a year and a half without any sort of fine-grained data. The only thing we know is that they passed the 500k mark earlier this year.
Here's the post where you responded to one tiny little piece of my post and ignored the rest. Which stemmed from this post up here where I was trying to explain how development budgeting works, which coincidentally did refute one of your points, unless you want to respond to the rest of that now.
Here's another one from me that you failed to respond to fully.
Yet another post where you responded to one line and left other arguments refuting your points sit unaddressed.
One from Arduemont you failed to refute in any meaningful way. If you believe he didn't then go through and tally up the opinions of the different posters and show your work.

There's more that I'm missing further back but that should give you something to work on Big smile

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Amateurism can only float your ~~boat~~ drakkar so far, apparently. These are the guys we are giving our monies to and putting our hopes on...

Consider me a little skeptical of that entire site since I can pick out at least two reviews that appear to be done by the same person (use a lot of the same wording, and give similarly negative reviews). Plus this is EA's profile and I know from friends in industry that EA is a worse place to work than CCP...

Plus only .2 lower than the rating for Bioware. Which is also considered one of the better companies to work for.

Flamespar wrote:

Just got this from CCP Seagul on twitter.

"This is not the focus for EVE online the game, but CCP still holds the vision. Both me and Hilmar expressed this at fanfest."

Souns like a "no, but we are too afraid to be honest about it".

Or a "yes but we're afraid there will be backlash if we talk about it too soon".

Overall I wouldn't expect any sort of concrete responses until after they make the changes to sov and caps at which point they'll probably try and take the temperature of the community on a lot of different things.

---

In before the last two pages are cleansed for rumor mongering. Seriously people you're quoting anonymous former employees posting on a review site. That's like, the worst statistical sample for not getting bitter angry former employees ever.

Arduemont

Rotten Legion

Likes received: 3,200

#1971 - 2013-09-23 13:32:27 UTC

Tanthalassa wrote:

That WiS demo cost them 20% layoffs

When referring to Incarna I think it's prudent to point out that it wasn't really the CQ that cost them in layoffs. It was expectation management that cost them their subs. If they had said "Look, we know your not going to like it but we don't have much content for you this expansion because we're integrating Carbon, but we do have this room which is the first step", then people might not have been so pissed. Instead, everyone assumed that single stupid room was what took up their developement time because CCP had spent so much time talking about how amazing it was going to be... and then it didn't work on half the playerbase's computers, they forced it on everyone and got rid of ship spinning, introduced micro-transactions that were extortionate, greed-is-good leak, etc, etc ,etc.

I can't help but hammer that point home. Incarna was about Carbon more than anything else, and expectation management, greed and not paying heed to players' wishes cost them their subs.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Professional Amateurs 589
Job Valador Professional Amateurs Likes received: 589	#1972 - 2013-09-23 13:40:46 UTC 1 Almost to page 100 gogogogogogogogogogogoggogo "The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai

Likes received: 4,252

#1973 - 2013-09-23 13:43:36 UTC

Cade Windstalker wrote:

(...)

In before the last two pages are cleansed for rumor mongering. Seriously people you're quoting anonymous former employees posting on a review site. That's like, the worst statistical sample for not getting bitter angry former employees ever.

If you can poduce better insight on CCP, I'll be glad to look at it.

If you notice, most pros talk about a good place to work, challenging and friendly, with most cons talking about poor pay, badl career development and disputable management and software development practices, and both trends span over several years.

And the case with avatars in EVE is not an instance of things well done by a professional company.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1,244
J3ssica Alba Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation Likes received: 1,244	#1974 - 2013-09-23 14:46:50 UTC 1 SC is far away from alpha and the door to the head has opened, can even sit on the toilet if one is so inclined, yet our door is still hermetically sealed. Nuff said. `This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless`


raven666wings Cyber Chaos Crew Likes received: 567	#1975 - 2013-09-23 15:15:50 UTC \| Edited by: raven666wings 1 J3ssica Alba wrote: SC is far away from alpha and the door to the head has opened, can even sit on the toilet if one is so inclined, yet our door is still hermetically sealed. Nuff said. Nuff said. Cade Windstalker wrote: :rant: Ranting is prohibited in the forums. Also, inb4 page 100.

Cade Windstalker

Likes received: 1,631

#1976 - 2013-09-23 15:15:56 UTC

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Unfortunately nothing I can site on a forum or share details of beyond "I have friends in the games industry and..."

My point is that that site does not represent any sort of unbiased sampling of current or former CCP employees. Evidence suggests it's not difficult for one determined individual to skew reviews on the site, and the sort of person more likely to leave a review on a site like that is a person who is, to put it bluntly, on the outgoing end of their professional relationship with the company.

If they're leaving the company then they are probably not happy with some aspect of their time their and left because of it, or they were fired (which is definitely something to be unhappy with). Neither is going to produce terribly positive reviews.

J3ssica Alba wrote:

SC is far away from alpha and the door to the head has opened, can even sit on the toilet if one is so inclined, yet our door is still hermetically sealed. Nuff said.

Oh yay, space-toilets the game? Lol

Seriously though, we've yet to see any actual gameplay out of Star Citizen. Lots of shiny ideas but no gameplay. This is like declaring that "That bullet will be the one that kills you!" and pointing at a lump of unrefined copper... What?


Cade Windstalker Likes received: 1,631	#1977 - 2013-09-23 15:19:37 UTC \| Edited by: Cade Windstalker raven666wings wrote: Cade Windstalker wrote: :rant: Ranting is prohibited in the forums. Also, inb4 page 100. I don't feel anything I've posted was angry or counterproductive. If you disagree you are, of course, free to report the post in question.

State War Academy Caldari State 652
Guttripper State War Academy Caldari State Likes received: 652	#1978 - 2013-09-23 15:29:46 UTC Interesting that CCP must be the only company that has disgruntled (ex)employees...

Tyrathlion Interstellar 1,949
Morwen Lagann Tyrathlion Interstellar Likes received: 1,949	#1979 - 2013-09-23 15:41:50 UTC 4 Well, I'm looking forward to seeing what Hilmar will have to say about it at Fanfest with it next year, personally, regardless of the nay-sayers. Morwen Lagann CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium Owner, The Golden Masque