These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#1781 - 2013-09-19 06:14:52 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
Just how patient are we meant to be exactly?

Dunno, really... I know I'll be here (staying subbed) until SC and Elite come out... that's my personal deadline for now.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Cade Windstalker
#1782 - 2013-09-19 06:37:59 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:
They are releasing the features already, and when they are all out they will make the full release available.

It's funny/sad, this thread is no longer about what CCP can do to make EVE better, its more about what another company is about to do that EVE should have done a LONG time ago.

SC = Dust514 + EVE + Valkyrie all in one game on one platform.


Except, you know, the last time they said "lets go this way" the player base said "nope, more in-space stuff or we burn the game down!"

Either way, threat has gotten way off topic.

So, how about that door? :)
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#1783 - 2013-09-19 06:49:11 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Except, you know, the last time they said "lets go this way" the player base said "nope, more in-space stuff or we burn the game down!"

Not this theory again... the outrage was 90% about the NeX store, and the "greed is good" agenda, CCP had back then.

But, yea, the door...

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#1784 - 2013-09-19 06:51:35 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Anslo wrote:
So does this mean you're unlocking our doors this winter and ungrounding us?


Shocked How in himmelsname did you get to that?


Well the door needs unlocked to go get the EVA suit?....I just want non-spaceshippy sci fi gameplay sprinkled with the spaceship gameplay. This isn't supposed to be space ship only. Eve set out to be the world's largest and greatest SCIENCE FICTION SIMULATOR, not just a spaceship simulator.


This. And tattoos. And visible implants. And more clothes. And strippers in the captains quarters.

*cracks bondage whip*

Don't make me come to iceland... xD

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#1785 - 2013-09-19 07:07:27 UTC
Isis Dea wrote:
Don't make me come to iceland... xD

Who knows? Maybe that actually would help? Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#1786 - 2013-09-19 07:10:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Just confirming that the discussion about how long it will take them to make SC earlier is making a lot of deductions that shouldn't really be made.

As a developer myself I can tell you the engine your working with makes a massive difference. I've never worked with Carbon obviously, and I have never worked with Cry 3. But we know that so far CCP haven't developed anything Avatar based with Carbon (anything worth talking about anyway), and Roberts has already achieved infinately more than them in that regards. Also, his 20m budget is 20m so far, for a while his budget was going up by 1m per week. And that is just the kickstarter money. He also has a lot of people investing and just giving him money from other sources. I imagine his currently total budget is much greater than double 20m.

As for Eve having 300 employees, and Robets having 200... well that's not true or relevant. CCP has 300 employees, Eve probably has something like 60-80 dedicated employees. The rest will be general admin, or working on other games. Roberts isn't working on any other projects. On top of that, Roberts is developing a new game. No signifcant amount of his employees will be customer support. Software maintainance takes as much or more man hours than developement. Currently Roberts isn't maintaining anything so you can double his developement time just on that.

Basically, Roberts has it easy. A better engine, more employees, more money, no maintainance and a new project that doesn't have old code that needs sifting through. There are more things to take into account but that will do. Trying to compare the amount of time it will take for Roberts by using CCP as an example is futile at best. They are in very differant boats. Best to just look at History as an indicater. Has Roberts dilivered on every promise so far? Yes. Has CCP? No, lol. Will Roberts get it all done when he says he will? Probably. Will CCP deliver on any of their future promises? Probably not, lol.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Altered Ego
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1787 - 2013-09-19 07:31:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Altered Ego
Arduemont wrote:

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice."


Don't mind me, I'm just +1'ing you just for your signature ... anyways, back to the discussion. ;)
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#1788 - 2013-09-19 08:36:11 UTC
Altered Ego wrote:
Don't mind me, I'm just +1'ing you just for your signature ... anyways, back to the discussion. ;)

Only if you don't mind my for +1'ing you for your name... very witty! Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#1789 - 2013-09-19 08:44:10 UTC
This Thread is Endorsed by ME! ^_^

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#1790 - 2013-09-19 10:23:43 UTC
Alice Saki wrote:
This Thread is Endorsed by ME! ^_^

Ok then people, our mission is done, we can go home... Lol

*glomp* Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#1791 - 2013-09-19 12:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
Cade Windstalker wrote:

Like I said, I'll be happy if they can pull it off, I just don't think it's going to happen. MMOs are notoriously problematic during development and the more people you're dealing with the more problems you're going to have. Hence why I say it's probably not going to release on time or it'll release on time but missing some promised features to be added... "soon" Blink


If only your dellusional speech would slow down RSI from delivering the game. Plus it's not like they started building the game yesterday. They been working at it for the past years in case you haven't noticed.
Trying to project CCP's actions on RSI... Instead of talking down on other projects try talking more about the management decisions that made CCP engage in side projects in multiple platforms, alienating and trying to scam the playerbase, while leaving EVE's engine and core gameplay to stagnate.
Like the old proverb: Plant winds, collect storms. Reap what you saw.
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#1792 - 2013-09-19 13:03:37 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
Cade Windstalker wrote:


I present as evidence of this:


  • World of Warcraft - Huge budget, especially for the time and spent far more than 2 years in development. Still released with a good number of bugs and issues and was fairly light on end-game content at the start, especially compared to these days.
  • SWTOR - Huge budget, massively hyped, fell flat on its face on release. Not a ton of content, very linear gameplay, overall very disappointing.
  • Dungeons and Dragons Online - Two years in development, unknown budget, still released with a fair number of bugs and issues and very light on content. Didn't really come into its own as a successful game until a year after release when it went free-to-play.
  • Planetside 2 - Just released, 18 month development cycle, unknown budget, and still coming into its own a year after release. Optimization update planned "soon".
  • Guild Wars - Great game, 2 years in development, still really buggy on release, though less so than probably most others on the list. Also less ambitious since most content was instanced. Also the people who founded Arena Net originally worked on World of Warcraft.
  • Diablo 3 - Can't forget this one. Worked well technically but the gameplay had major issues that still haven't been fully resolved.


Star Citizen is a more ambitious project than most of these and has a smaller budget for the next 2 years than Eve Online does. Overall I'll be somewhat surprised if something doesn't give between here and there, either the feature list, or the release schedule.


Apart from disagreeing completely with this ridiculous analysis on those titles showing your knowledge about them, it seems to me you forgot to include something in your list:


  • EVE Online - Good space game with great sci-fi content and backstory. Gained notoriety over the years for rarely delivering on its promises regarding gameplay development. Engaged in side projects and failed to upgrade its graphic and physics engine and add Directx 11 support, aswell as to improve core gameplay features. Launched a half baked Carbon avatar gameplay engine that melted video cards and offered 0 gameplay features. Its subscription numbers grew over the years, but with the appearance of other quality space mmorpgs delivering what EVE couldn't, its place on top of the food chain seems now more shaken than ever. Stay tuned for the next year to hear the rest of the story.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1793 - 2013-09-19 13:11:48 UTC
raven666wings wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:

Like I said, I'll be happy if they can pull it off, I just don't think it's going to happen. MMOs are notoriously problematic during development and the more people you're dealing with the more problems you're going to have. Hence why I say it's probably not going to release on time or it'll release on time but missing some promised features to be added... "soon" Blink


If only your dellusional speech would slow down RSI from delivering the game. Plus it's not like they started building the game yesterday. They been working at it for the past years in case you haven't noticed.
Trying to project CCP's actions on RSI... Instead of talking down on other projects try talking more about the management decisions that made CCP engage in side projects in multiple platforms, alienating and trying to scam the playerbase, while leaving EVE's engine and core gameplay to stagnate.
Like the old proberb: Plant winds, collect storms. Reap what you saw.


Actually, CIG (the company making Star Citizen) has got in the line of 80 employees after their last expansion. But Chris Roberts is a producer, and he just has been hiring 3rd party Montreal based studios with the expertise he needs to make the less-creative work. There are two studios making the videos, another one doing the 3d Animation, and so and so.

That's just cunning, as a 3rd party studio is likely to have everything a new company doesn't: equipment, personnel and expertise... and they work on a schedule and a budget.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1794 - 2013-09-19 13:38:20 UTC
By the way, concerning this image:

http://jestertrek.com/eve/blog/2013/eve-future.png

Don't you feel like something is missing?

To be fair, the image is old and just is an instance on how "paralel development" is meant to work. And yet, WiS and avatars weren't in the plans neither "before" nor "after."


PS: The original, inspirational Hallelujah Trail... err... PlanCool

Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah

Don't know where we're goin' or where we've been
Hallelujah trail
It's written in the dust and blown by the wind
Hallelujah trail

Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelu
Halleluja trail

You can't tell a horse from a stubborn mule,
Hallelujah trail
You can't tell a hero from a doggone fool,
Hallelujah trail

Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelu
Halleluja trail

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#1795 - 2013-09-19 13:39:40 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Actually, CIG (the company making Star Citizen) has got in the line of 80 employees after their last expansion. But Chris Roberts is a producer, and he just has been hiring 3rd party Montreal based studios with the expertise he needs to make the less-creative work. There are two studios making the videos, another one doing the 3d Animation, and so and so.

That's just cunning, as a 3rd party studio is likely to have everything a new company doesn't: equipment, personnel and expertise... and they work on a schedule and a budget.


Right, just what CCP's CEO and producers should have done. Want to work on more stuff than your team can handle, hire more people or outsource the work to other studios. Don't put the main project on hold by firing them or moving them around between secondary projects.
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#1796 - 2013-09-19 13:40:37 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
PlanCool

ahahahaha good stuff Big smileBig smileBig smile
handbanana
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1797 - 2013-09-19 15:56:40 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
the outrage was 90% about the NeX store, and the "greed is good" agenda, CCP had back then.


[citation needed]

“It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.”    -Jack Handy
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#1798 - 2013-09-19 16:01:02 UTC
I wouldn't go throwing around numbers, but I do agree that avatar play has been unfairly tarnished by all the **** that came with it yet was not necessarily integral to it as a form of gameplay.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#1799 - 2013-09-19 16:59:11 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
Yes YES!!! Greed is Good! And CCPeen is Big! Buy more PLEX here and Dream with us guyz!!! Twisted
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1800 - 2013-09-19 18:27:15 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
raven666wings wrote:
By the time CCP delivers any of its Hallelujah plans on the 3 different game engines/platforms/business models alienated from each other, everybody will most likely be playing SC long ago.


Welp, they've got two or more years before Star Citizen is out. Overall I wouldn't expect them to deliver on their "Hallelujah plan" for the game at launch either, the things people expect out of them are way too much to get done in two years for the scope of game that they're talking about. If they pull it off I'll be pleasantly surprised, but the emphasis there is on surprised >.>



who knows,but at least the game is made on a good existing game engine


Which one? Eve or Star Citizen? (also editing to reflect that the "them" was talking about is Star Citizen)


SC on cryengine

R.S.I2014