Ships & Modules

- pretty debatable, I could run at the same pace with either a Domi or a CNR neither of which I have to chase ship to ship.....or do you use T2 barrage with everything? I don't because it sucks outside of angel missions.
-Wrong the the incursion crew favors the Nightmare and Vindis for pretty much all things over vangards, and in vans Vargur/vindi is often better for their tracking and web bonuses respectively
- Wrong again, it IS better as a nano battleship, because it is the best nano battleship, and to GET the speed numbers the neurosurgeons in this thread keep quoting you have to knock its eHP down to the around 70,000 eHP a well tanked battlecruiser. Not to mention with **** PERFECT cap and nav skills your cap lasts all of 1:45 without getting fancy with implants. So after fitting a point, MWDand CAP booster and point where do you put the tank pray tell?
- So incorrect on that last one I won't even get started. I've lived in null for a couple years now ...y'know doing fleet stuff....and even though Goons had a mach doctrine I never actually saw them field it despite being in a war with them at the time. My OWN allaince(s) I have never seen "mach fleets" beyond the corp roam level with less than 20 main ships and an equal number of support.

I know NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF.

Daniel Plain,

Regardless of how the mach performs in PVE (tbh I couldn't care less and if CCP is going to balance the game around PVE I'm literally going to shoot myself), it's really not evreything you claim it is for pvp.

Why don't you try joining some alliance dumb enough to let you take out a mach fleet and see how well it does. Fact of the matter is that the tornado can achieve the same thing for significantly less cost. The mach has terrible tank, terrible cap and will die so fast in a fleet fight it's not even funny. No reason not to use a tornado which DOES THE EXACT SAME THING.

Second, in a small gang pvp fight (which is arguably the strongest situation for the mach), the mach still suffers from terrible tracking. Capless weapons hardly matter when you have to burn your MWD constantly to avoid dying (because your tank is abysmal), and enjoy outtracking yourself with your MWD because AC's have bad tracking and you get no tracking bonus.

You stupid people on this forum are the reason this game is being homogenized. God forbid that the mach is a fast battleship unlike other battleships. What you want is for CCP to nerf it's speed to the speed of the vindi, and then fix it (because nobody will fly it after that change) so that it does the same dps as other BS's at close range.

WHOOPDEEDO now we can just have a bunch of battleships that are slow, boring and excel at tanking and doing damage within 20km. Goddamn I hate you. Like I said before, NOBODY EVEN FLIES THE MACH RIGHT NOW, WHY WOULD YOU NERF IT.

the mach is meant to be fast hence its name

also selectable damage type still takes you 10 seconds to switch

If the mach is so good at small scale pvp how comes i only ever saw one in the few months i lived in null? and guess what ...it got blown up.

Selectable damage types, plural, with an s. It always does kinetic, which half of New Eden is stacked against naturally.

Claiming that selectable damage types is a benefit in incursions is akin to saying "I don't know anything". Claiming that selectable damage types is an advantage in PvP when it ALWAYS does kinetic is more of the same.

The Mach rips Angels to shreds. Its par for the course against all else.

I'll say it again cause no one else seems to.
The rattler being a drone boat does not deserve to be in the slowest speed category, especially considering it has only 4 launchers.
There is no tracking increase from kiting, and being chased or kited by an 4 launcher fitted BS without bonuses isn't even close to scary.
As a rattler is stationary with sentries, or point blank with heavy drones the latter I can't imagine happening much.
Both cases make a point for turning the rattler from an asteroid into a battleship and increase its maximum speed.
Since we are all adding what is missing from other pirate BS.


P.S. Hulls with tank bonuses are the slowest hulls, the rattler falls under this but doesn't gain anything from kiting in a straight line creating a slugfest in which the stronger tank will win if it can keep range indefinitely.
This adds a good point for making tank bonus hulls slower but the rattlesnake uses heavy drones or sentries, both can be shot themselves and the other needs to be stationary.
IN summary the rattler is completely unable to "Exploit" a "higher" amount of movement speed with 4 launchers and it should be more balanced towards the fact it only has said 4 and drones.

And even with its immense PWG, for comparison a full rack of arties takes up 98% of a Maels max PWG, a full rack of arties takes up 101% of a Mach's PWG. But the Mach also has 1 more Low+Mid slot, and has a utility high. So they have a similar % allocation to weapons, but the Mach has effectively 2 slots more.

Sorry, but I really don't like these kinds of arguments. Yes, it has more PWG. But it also has 1 more gun. All that PWG only really matters when fitting Arty anyways (autos are dirt cheap PWG wise, barely taking over half the PWG in both cases), and if fitting arty the simple matter is you'll need Reactor Controls and/or ACRs to fit them (with anything else at all).

... Afterburner? Do those even go on Battleships, let alone long range fit BS's?

that's why i did not say it.


so it always does 100% kinetic? no wait, is it 50%? OH RIGHT it's somewhere between 10% and 20% while the rest goes straight into the resist hole unless you were too stupid to switch ammo while warping. and i know i know, now you will tell me how you often have to fight against several enemies with different resist holes and all of them have like 110% kinetic resistance so you're actually healing them with your shots. it's amazing how many mental contortions people will go through when they don't want to lose their ticket to the gravy train.

the only 'special' pvp feature of the nightmare are the two extra highs. you could try to buff its cap to make neuts or RR more worthwhile but you'd have to be careful not to overbuff it so much it becomes irrelevant in pve. you could also buff its agility to keep up with the other pirate hulls but that would kinda kill its flavor. a unique and more homogenous shield resist profile could be a fun experiment to make omnitanking easier, but then again, it's already strong enough in pve.

Hell I haven't even used my Mach in over a year, its to much of a pain in the ass to haul around so I just leave it in low sec. (I actually lost it and spent an hour trying to figure out which toon had it).

Its SO overpowered that I have no use for it.

I seriously don't get the pitchforks.