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Dear CCP please dont nerf the machariel

First post
Author
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-09-08 20:47:46 UTC
As the title says pls dont do this. I've heard rumours that a nerf is on the horizon. Is this true?

I have spent ages training for this ship and it would be a shame for all that training to go to waste....

PLEASE PLEASE dont nerf the mach.
Xyrdiana
FACTS on EVE
#2 - 2013-09-08 21:05:55 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
As the title says pls dont do this. I've heard rumours that a nerf is on the horizon. Is this true?

I have spent ages training for this ship and it would be a shame for all that training to go to waste....

PLEASE PLEASE dont nerf the mach.



Boo f*cking Hoo

The ship is overpowered and should be tuned down. NOT MUCH but still.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-09-08 21:28:14 UTC
why is it overpowered?
Mathias Orsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-09-08 21:31:48 UTC
sounds like Rumor to me.
Berendas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-09-08 21:46:55 UTC
The Machariel is, and has been overpowered for quite a long time. Its rebalance is long overdue. I can't produce a link at the moment, but I know that CCP has stated either on the forums or in a dev blog that the Mach will be brought in line with the other faction battleships.
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
#6 - 2013-09-08 21:48:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Walkuris
Xyrdiana wrote:
Bastion Arzi wrote:
As the title says pls dont do this. I've heard rumours that a nerf is on the horizon. Is this true?

I have spent ages training for this ship and it would be a shame for all that training to go to waste....

PLEASE PLEASE dont nerf the mach.



Boo f*cking Hoo

The ship is overpowered and should be tuned down. NOT MUCH but still.


Xyrd you big meany, I love you.
Now give the man a reply worthy of your Machyness.

P.S. To the original poster, for as long as I've played EvE the mach has been outrageously powerful on a pedestal all to its own.
With a very wide range of PWN application throughout PvP and PvE alike.
That said I don't own one and never flew one, although I've followed Xyrdiana around in one (with my gimpy drake).

I would guess they will tune the ships to be a little more excelling towards their pirate faction origins.
And not one ship to rule them all.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-09-08 21:57:01 UTC
Berendas wrote:
The Machariel is, and has been overpowered for quite a long time. Its rebalance is long overdue. I can't produce a link at the moment, but I know that CCP has stated either on the forums or in a dev blog that the Mach will be brought in line with the other faction battleships.


But why is it overpowered?

and didnt it just get nerfed with the TE nerf?
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#8 - 2013-09-08 22:22:49 UTC
The machariel is fine as it is, if anything the other nano bs need a buff.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-09-08 22:30:40 UTC
Marcus Walkuris wrote:
P.S. To the original poster, for as long as I've played EvE the mach has been outrageously powerful on a pedestal all to its own.
With a very wide range of PWN application throughout PvP and PvE alike.
That said I don't own one and never flew one, although I've followed Xyrdiana around in one (with my gimpy drake).

I would guess they will tune the ships to be a little more excelling towards their pirate faction origins.
And not one ship to rule them all.


ive seen a near max skilled mach unable to break the tank on a near max skilled passive shield tanked rattler. Also the vindi does more dps than the mach albeit at terrible ranges but then thats blasters for u.

I agree with wolf the mach is fine as it is...
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#10 - 2013-09-08 22:41:16 UTC
Berendas wrote:
The Machariel is, and has been overpowered for quite a long time. Its rebalance is long overdue. I can't produce a link at the moment, but I know that CCP has stated either on the forums or in a dev blog that the Mach will be brought in line with the other faction battleships.


It will be the third nerf if they do. I can't understand where that "about time" came from. If they nerf the Machariel the t1 Dominix will be more powerful.

Eve, fly all 4 races or you're ******.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#11 - 2013-09-08 23:16:23 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:


ive seen a near max skilled mach unable to break the tank on a near max skilled passive shield tanked rattler. Also the vindi does more dps than the mach albeit at terrible ranges but then thats blasters for u.

I agree with wolf the mach is fine as it is...


Pull the other one, it has bells on. You can make Rattlers with 4K DPS tank of passive regen. Any BS would be unable to break that -in fact, every so often the odd killmail pops up (usually pimped wormhole Rattlers) where the ship takes 2-4M damage before going under. It is not a reason for saying the machariel is fine and not in need of a nerf.

The Machariel does more damage than most other battleships. it is the fact it is exceptionally fast and has three weapon bonuses which make it OP. Its falloff bonus gives it unrivalled damage projection.

it is stronger in every way (shield, armour, hull) than the maelstrom, for example. It has one more slot to play with.

its sig is 30% lower, base.

its scan res is 50% higher, base.

its sensor strength is 20% higher.

It has a bigger drone bay.

its base velocity is nearly 80% faster than the Maelstrom.

Arguably you would think "well, i am paying a billion ISk I would want these kind of attributes!" but CCP does not set the price on the hull. Players do. The reason you pay a billion ISK is because of these attributes, which have no achilles heel.

That's not balanced. You do not have to give anything up, compromise in any way, suffer a drawback if you fly the Machariel. The meta of the game is damage projection, range and mobility (to avoid hard tackle), all of which the machariel does better at than most ships in the game, if not all.

So, yes. nerf inbound.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-09-09 00:33:28 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
As the title says pls dont do this. I've heard rumours that a nerf is on the horizon. Is this true?

I have spent ages training for this ship and it would be a shame for all that training to go to waste....

PLEASE PLEASE dont nerf the mach.


One of the devs said that the mach was getting a nerf, although with all the ship updates it's hard to remember where. They were concerned that it was the go to battleship for everything because it had great speed, great agility, good damage, good damage projection, good defenses, and very generous fittings. They didn't want to nerf it much, but as it is there really isn't any reason to fly anything else once you're in a mach.

They also said they're going to nerf the cynable a little because they were a little too generous with it as well.
Jon Matick
WeebleCORP
#13 - 2013-09-09 00:44:23 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
The machariel is fine as it is, if anything the other nano bs need a buff.

there ARE no other nano BSs, and there's the crux of the issue...
the mach need either it's speed or damage/projection nerfed by probably as much as 25% to bring in anywhere NEAR in line with other 'nano' BSs.
hell, even with a 25% speed nerf, it would STILL be the fastest BS anywhere.

My Blog:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Slaved Lovechild
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-09-09 00:56:44 UTC
Got it it's way better than the Maelstrom. I don't think you'll get any argument to that. The Mach is also over a billion ISK. Of course it's better!... If it wasn't why would anyone pay that. By some posters logic the navy version of the Hurricane is OP. How about T3 cruisers...

Anyways this is all moot because it's just rumor till it's announced by CCP. The Mach was already nerfed and I don't see any major nerf happening.
Mathias Orsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-09-09 01:22:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mathias Orsen
I just like the way that all the people that have never flown a mach claim that it is OP and not having the slightest clue that it is not just a billion isk Hull, it is a billion isk hull that is often fit with billions of isk in mods.

My Mach is not Overpowered, My Wallet is.

You guys scream for years "Caldari, Caldari, Caldari" the day you realize Caldari ships are not what you wanted them to be all those years, you want everything else nerfed.
Literally Space Moses
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-09-09 01:22:45 UTC
Now imagine if you were training for a supercarrier or titan. The tears when those get nerfed are going to be exquisite.

#T2013

W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#17 - 2013-09-09 01:24:04 UTC
Jon Matick wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
The machariel is fine as it is, if anything the other nano bs need a buff.

there ARE no other nano BSs, and there's the crux of the issue...
the mach need either it's speed or damage/projection nerfed by probably as much as 25% to bring in anywhere NEAR in line with other 'nano' BSs.
hell, even with a 25% speed nerf, it would STILL be the fastest BS anywhere.


There are a few, nano phoon is very much a thing, and nano pest/fleet pest work quite well too. You can also fly a kiting raven/scorpion navy/golem.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#18 - 2013-09-09 01:49:53 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Bastion Arzi wrote:


ive seen a near max skilled mach unable to break the tank on a near max skilled passive shield tanked rattler. Also the vindi does more dps than the mach albeit at terrible ranges but then thats blasters for u.

I agree with wolf the mach is fine as it is...


Pull the other one, it has bells on. You can make Rattlers with 4K DPS tank of passive regen. Any BS would be unable to break that -in fact, every so often the odd killmail pops up (usually pimped wormhole Rattlers) where the ship takes 2-4M damage before going under. It is not a reason for saying the machariel is fine and not in need of a nerf.

The Machariel does more damage than most other battleships. it is the fact it is exceptionally fast and has three weapon bonuses which make it OP. Its falloff bonus gives it unrivalled damage projection.

it is stronger in every way (shield, armour, hull) than the maelstrom, for example. It has one more slot to play with.

its sig is 30% lower, base.

its scan res is 50% higher, base.

its sensor strength is 20% higher.

It has a bigger drone bay.

its base velocity is nearly 80% faster than the Maelstrom.

Arguably you would think "well, i am paying a billion ISk I would want these kind of attributes!" but CCP does not set the price on the hull. Players do. The reason you pay a billion ISK is because of these attributes, which have no achilles heel.

That's not balanced. You do not have to give anything up, compromise in any way, suffer a drawback if you fly the Machariel. The meta of the game is damage projection, range and mobility (to avoid hard tackle), all of which the machariel does better at than most ships in the game, if not all.

So, yes. nerf inbound.


You are comparing a Pirate faction ship with a t1 ship and saying its not balanced. They aren't supposed to be.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-09-09 01:55:39 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

  • Angel Cartel: while the Dramiel has been brought back into line, the Cynabal and Machariel need a nerf. Not necessarily a big one mind you, but at the moment they are just too much versatile with their flexible slot layouts, extended drone bays coupled with amazing speed and good damage. Their theoretical weaknesses (lack of EHP, poor damage projection) don't matter as much in the field as they should.
Source

The ship can brawl way too well considering that it has the lowest mass of all battleships, has the second highest base speed (panther beats it at level 5), and has the second most number of effective turrets for any battleship (behind fleet typhoon). It's technically fifth on agility for all battleships, but that's only because the black ops ships have extremely low agility modifiers to compensate for their outrageously high mass.
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-09-09 02:19:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Alduin666 Shikkoken
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
The Phantasm used to be awesome. It had HAC-level firepower with a nice buffer tank and very reasonable cost, and effectively replaced the Zealot. The problem was that it was the first faction cruiser to be updated, so when CCP released the faction ship boost patch they assumed the Phantasm was already good enough since it had been updated more recently than the others. Unfortunately they were wrong, and the Phantasm is now a terrible ship since everything else around it has been made so much better.


Ah yes, this dates back to 2009, and you're looking at the one responsible for that (along with the Dramiel, Cynabal and Machariel uberness)Oops

Considering I was the one breaking this ship in the first place, the least I can do is to post here what we think of pirate ships at the moment.


  • Blood Raiders: Bhaalgorn is nice, Ashimmu and Cruor need some iteration. Need to find ways to make them useful at what they do without them competing too much with the Amarr Recon Ships.

  • Sansha's Nation: Nightmare is very good, Phantasm and Succubus also need some love. Probably going to need to have a look at their mobility and EHP. Open to ideas however, so this thread will be watched.

  • Guristas: Rattlesnake and Gila we are happy with, not so much with the Worm.

  • Serpentis: we are quite pleased with all the ships in this line.

  • Angel Cartel: while the Dramiel has been brought back into line, the Cynabal and Machariel need a nerf. Not necessarily a big one mind you, but at the moment they are just too much versatile with their flexible slot layouts, extended drone bays coupled with amazing speed and good damage. Their theoretical weaknesses (lack of EHP, poor damage projection) don't matter as much in the field as they should.


  • So, when would this be coming out? Not for a while, we have a lot of more urgent rebalancing to go through, mainly with Tech1 and 2 hulls, but this definately is on our to-do list.


Found a post concerning the Machariel (and other pirate faction) nerfs.
Your welcome P

Edit: Gah sorry the guy above me beat me too it. Oh well.

Honor is a fools prize. [I]Glory is of no use to the dead.[/I]

Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager

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