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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

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Maximilian Akora
It's just business.
#1441 - 2013-09-10 13:09:26 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
Maximilian Akora wrote:
...ONCE YOU GOT SOV AND POS WORKED OUT ...


This will never be "done" or "worked out", because some people will never be satisfied. Therefore it should not be held as a brake for WiS development, instead they could be worked on at the same time. You know, that should be possible, because WiS is largely needing graphic assets (and optimization and a handful of fixes) that Sov and Pos should not require as much if at all, as far as I've understood it POS/Sov people want redesigned mechanics. But I'm not sure because I don't own either.


There's a big difference between "holy **** this sucks" and "some people will never be satisfied". Right now it's the former, once CCP got it to "yup, that'll do nicely" status they can start working on WiS.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#1442 - 2013-09-10 13:19:48 UTC
Maximilian Akora wrote:
There's a big difference between "holy **** this sucks" and "some people will never be satisfied". Right now it's the former, once CCP got it to "yup, that'll do nicely" status they can start working on WiS.


Not untrue, but I guess it's like it is with everything in live: If you wait for exactly the right time, you will never do it, cause the right time will never come...

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1443 - 2013-09-10 15:12:12 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
Maximilian Akora wrote:
...ONCE YOU GOT SOV AND POS WORKED OUT ...


This will never be "done" or "worked out", because some people will never be satisfied. Therefore it should not be held as a brake for WiS development, instead they could be worked on at the same time. You know, that should be possible, because WiS is largely needing graphic assets (and optimization and a handful of fixes) that Sov and Pos should not require as much if at all, as far as I've understood it POS/Sov people want redesigned mechanics. But I'm not sure because I don't own either.


So you have no idea what you're talking about but that's not going to stop you from advocating that CCP ignore broken game mechanics to add more emotes and space pants. Thanks for the useless input I guess.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
handbanana
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1444 - 2013-09-10 16:31:26 UTC  |  Edited by: handbanana
Shalua Rui wrote:
Ok, so you want an example for how a simple room could generate income and maybe even draw new players? Fine... the hangar module for Star Citizen (more or less one simple hall with a ship in it) has been downloaded by approx 234.000 people right now... to get access to it, each of them had to donate at least 5$, not counting the money they actually payed for the module itself... remember: That hangar is nothing more then one room with a ship... no gameplay, hardly any interaction, and it will stay like that for the next 6 months.

...so, and now tell me it would not work for EVE. All CCP would have to do is add a social space similar to that hangar and/or open up the existing CQs for other players, then proceed to add vanity items like room decorations (model ships, pictures, or even a bar), new clothing and accessories (expanding the current NeX shop), and go from there ...believe me, it would work and it would bring new players. Why? Cause the industry shows that stuff like that works right now... given, it has to be done right, not like the last time - with a vision for future things to come behind it - but it would work.

Right now, all EVE is to most gamers is: "Spreadsheets in Space"...


So, you want CCP to copy SC's model and accept donations for early access to incomplete features? Maybe if all the people who are pining for WIS did that, CCP could gauge what the actual demand is from their existing players and decide if its even worth it because they'd have real numbers to forecast with instead of feelings and trying to copy what other companies do.

But, I have to believe you that it will work too? I lack that much faith in CCP's ability to deliver things that work on time that also meet player expectations. I think you mean it "could work" and not: "would work", because you have no idea unless you can predict the future.

Given what went down last time, I'm convinced if CCP does release an updated version of "WIS" that does not contain something to do that aligns with EVE's cold and dark universe philosophy other than just being seen wearing or arranging vanity items, it's not going to bring in any new players. New subscribers is where CCP is going to be re-focused once iterations and re-balancing are good enough to do so. I look forward to seeing CCP's 3 year plan for EVE. If it happens to not contain any, or very limited avatar content, so be it, it's not going to be the doom and gloom scenario for EVE some people keep pushing.

Do you happen to own a "hope and change" bumper sticker or poster? Big smile

“It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.”    -Jack Handy
Gaia Ma'chello
Photosynth
#1445 - 2013-09-10 16:43:11 UTC
Maximilian Akora wrote:
Teinyhr wrote:
Maximilian Akora wrote:
...ONCE YOU GOT SOV AND POS WORKED OUT ...


This will never be "done" or "worked out", because some people will never be satisfied. Therefore it should not be held as a brake for WiS development, instead they could be worked on at the same time. You know, that should be possible, because WiS is largely needing graphic assets (and optimization and a handful of fixes) that Sov and Pos should not require as much if at all, as far as I've understood it POS/Sov people want redesigned mechanics. But I'm not sure because I don't own either.


There's a big difference between "holy **** this sucks" and "some people will never be satisfied". Right now it's the former, once CCP got it to "yup, that'll do nicely" status they can start working on WiS.

The current status of WiS is also "holy **** this sucks", so it should see the same level of development effort.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1446 - 2013-09-10 18:51:55 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
Maximilian Akora wrote:
...ONCE YOU GOT SOV AND POS WORKED OUT ...


This will never be "done" or "worked out", because some people will never be satisfied. Therefore it should not be held as a brake for WiS development, instead they could be worked on at the same time. You know, that should be possible, because WiS is largely needing graphic assets (and optimization and a handful of fixes) that Sov and Pos should not require as much if at all, as far as I've understood it POS/Sov people want redesigned mechanics. But I'm not sure because I don't own either.




You asking to much here ,first CCP has to make something out of game AGAIN ,before working on something EvE related

R.S.I2014
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1447 - 2013-09-10 18:53:47 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Teinyhr wrote:
Maximilian Akora wrote:
...ONCE YOU GOT SOV AND POS WORKED OUT ...


This will never be "done" or "worked out", because some people will never be satisfied. Therefore it should not be held as a brake for WiS development, instead they could be worked on at the same time. You know, that should be possible, because WiS is largely needing graphic assets (and optimization and a handful of fixes) that Sov and Pos should not require as much if at all, as far as I've understood it POS/Sov people want redesigned mechanics. But I'm not sure because I don't own either.


So you have no idea what you're talking about but that's not going to stop you from advocating that CCP ignore broken game mechanics to add more emotes and space pants. Thanks for the useless input I guess.




You forgot about the furries and the roleplayers ,maybe it wil help us to take you serious

R.S.I2014
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#1448 - 2013-09-10 18:58:45 UTC
handbanana wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Ok, so you want an example for how a simple room could generate income and maybe even draw new players? Fine... the hangar module for Star Citizen (more or less one simple hall with a ship in it) has been downloaded by approx 234.000 people right now... to get access to it, each of them had to donate at least 5$, not counting the money they actually payed for the module itself... remember: That hangar is nothing more then one room with a ship... no gameplay, hardly any interaction, and it will stay like that for the next 6 months.

...so, and now tell me it would not work for EVE. All CCP would have to do is add a social space similar to that hangar and/or open up the existing CQs for other players, then proceed to add vanity items like room decorations (model ships, pictures, or even a bar), new clothing and accessories (expanding the current NeX shop), and go from there ...believe me, it would work and it would bring new players. Why? Cause the industry shows that stuff like that works right now... given, it has to be done right, not like the last time - with a vision for future things to come behind it - but it would work.

Right now, all EVE is to most gamers is: "Spreadsheets in Space"...


So, you want CCP to copy SC's model and accept donations for early access to incomplete features? Maybe if all the people who are pining for WIS did that, CCP could gauge what the actual demand is from their existing players and decide if its even worth it because they'd have real numbers to forecast with instead of feelings and trying to copy what other companies do.

But, I have to believe you that it will work too? I lack that much faith in CCP's ability to deliver things that work on time that also meet player expectations. I think you mean it "could work" and not: "would work", because you have no idea unless you can predict the future.

Given what went down last time, I'm convinced if CCP does release an updated version of "WIS" that does not contain something to do that aligns with EVE's cold and dark universe philosophy other than just being seen wearing or arranging vanity items, it's not going to bring in any new players. New subscribers is where CCP is going to be re-focused once iterations and re-balancing are good enough to do so. I look forward to seeing CCP's 3 year plan for EVE. If it happens to not contain any, or very limited avatar content, so be it, it's not going to be the doom and gloom scenario for EVE some people keep pushing.

Do you happen to own a "hope and change" bumper sticker or poster? Big smile



So ,there is a 3 year plan .
So in 3 years CCP can handle their own software?

R.S.I2014
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#1449 - 2013-09-10 18:58:52 UTC
Rhes wrote:
So you have no idea what you're talking about but that's not going to stop you from advocating that CCP ignore broken game mechanics to add more emotes and space pants. Thanks for the useless input I guess.


You're welcome. Also what Gaia Ma'chello said.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1450 - 2013-09-10 20:23:41 UTC
Gaia Ma'chello wrote:
The current status of WiS is also "holy **** this sucks", so it should see the same level of development effort.


Not really since WiS has nothing to do with real Eve gameplay which is spaceships and the industry that supports them.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1451 - 2013-09-10 20:31:53 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
You forgot about the furries and the roleplayers ,maybe it wil help us to take you serious


You seem very interested in furries.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#1452 - 2013-09-10 20:33:24 UTC
handbanana wrote:
Do you happen to own a "hope and change" bumper sticker or poster? Big smile


I do... you can get them on NeX... just kidding. Blink

I'm not saying that CCP should ignore everything that is broken in the game right now... and if they'd build a dedicated team for the whole "avatar gameplay" (not calling it WiS anymore) they wouldn't have to ignore them.

Look, I know the chances for the project ever taking off again are slim... very slim... but I believe that something could come out of it that actually would benefit the game... not only the "furries" and "roleplayers" ...that's all.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1453 - 2013-09-10 22:26:37 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
I'm not saying that CCP should ignore everything that is broken in the game right now... and if they'd build a dedicated team for the whole "avatar gameplay" (not calling it WiS anymore) they wouldn't have to ignore them.


Any resources they waste on a separate team dedicated to roleplaying nonsense are resources that could have been used to improve and enhance Eve's core gameplay.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#1454 - 2013-09-11 06:07:25 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Any resources they waste on a separate team dedicated to roleplaying nonsense are resources that could have been used to improve and enhance Eve's core gameplay.


...why do you always have to add a derogatory word to your arguments? You don't think role playing is a valid part of a massively multiplayer online ROLEPLAYING game, we get it. Roll

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Taiwanistan
#1455 - 2013-09-11 06:25:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Taiwanistan
Shalua Rui wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Any resources they waste on a separate team dedicated to roleplaying nonsense are resources that could have been used to improve and enhance Eve's core gameplay.


...why do you always have to add a derogatory word to your arguments? You don't think role playing is a valid part of a massively multiplayer online ROLEPLAYING game, we get it. Roll

a bunch of dudes dressing up emoting each other in a room, devoid of gameplay, is roleplaying?
FW, New Order, CVA, U'K, that's roleplaying

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#1456 - 2013-09-11 07:42:51 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
a bunch of dudes dressing up emoting each other in a room, devoid of gameplay, is roleplaying?
FW, New Order, CVA, U'K, that's roleplaying


No, that's an opinion... That is roleplaying.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Flamespar
WarRavens
#1457 - 2013-09-11 10:42:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Flamespar
Don't feed the trolls.

For some reason they think that an announcement about game play involving the dangerous exploration of derelicts somehow equates to furries and emoting in a room.
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1458 - 2013-09-11 12:32:16 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Rhes wrote:
The people paying for subscriptions. Here is how you can tell if the majority of players want Space Barbies: cancel your subs and if there are enough of you CCP will take action like they did after the mass cancellations when Incarna was released.


...and there he goes again with his "space barbies almost killed EVE" argument... FOX news my a**. Roll

You know what? Forget it, I'm done here... I tried to have a civil discussion, but all the arguments I get are machismo bu** sh*t... pardon my french... you don't see any meaning in avatar game play? Fine, I get it... still begs the question why you even bothered customizing your own avatar, but whatever... SC will hit next year and we will see how meaningful it can be... and how quickly CCP will make an 180 to compete with it. Blink


Don't worry dear, they are goons after all. They go on and on trashing the RP and the space barbies and yet they make their avatar look like "angry black men" and act as they would. It's hilarious really.
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1459 - 2013-09-11 15:36:43 UTC
J3ssica Alba wrote:
Don't worry dear, they are goons after all. They go on and on trashing the RP and the space barbies and yet they make their avatar look like "angry black men" and act as they would. It's hilarious really.


Reported for racism.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Lateris
#1460 - 2013-09-11 15:50:46 UTC
Lets get this thread back on subject please.


All gamers that I have talked to about Eve Online at some of the game conventions I have attended as well as Friday night gatherings of the dads (those of us with kids) all agree that the space game is the main focus of Eve, however- avatars are a viable conduit to expand our experience in the Eve Universe. Since 2011 we have seen the avatar for Eve boxed up and kept in a CQ which is a mistake. The entire protest that spawned this debate had to do with the cash shop. Lets get back to focusing on the future of Eve after the repair of Eve has been completed. One of the main complaints I have read over the years is how new content is added, revised, then never touched again such as Planetary Interaction. Now the CQ's fall under this as well. We all can agree that we love our ships but we also saw through the ploy of a cash shop with avatars. At the root of this is resources for developers, artist, etc. Lets look at the WOD tech and see how it can be applied to Eve Online. If we resist letting CCP grow Eve then we risk alienation and separation from the future of the 50 year plan. I am sure a well balanced development and deployment schedule can be set.

Personally, Dust 514 is not the solution for avatars in New Eden. We are.

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