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Balancing Feedback: Hybrid Turrets

First post First post
Author
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#621 - 2011-11-13 22:10:43 UTC
Cyvhiros wrote:
Nemesor wrote:


Anyone can use drones. Fixing a ship is not done by fixing drones.

Blasters don't need a range bonus. Just damage and speed.




The point is we are not fixing ships, this is not a thread about it, nor are we speaking about this, we are trying to fix a "phylosophy", meaning the way gallente fight, because there is where something is wrong.

Besides every1 can use drones but not everyone can use drones as good as gallente can, they are suposed to be a vital piece in gallentean warfare, WHY NOT MAKE THAT TRUE!!.

Besides I agree in that gallente need a push up in their drone bays, and others a small nerf, especially minmatars should get a few less drones, having the drone space on tempest, hurricane, mael nerfed a bit.



upgrade drone AI from "amoeba" to "insect" first.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Hentes Zsemle
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#622 - 2011-11-13 22:20:16 UTC
Cyvhiros wrote:
[quote=Sigras]

Als agree with the increase in the gallente drone bay, but I think I'll rather prefer a small increase and a small decrease on the other factions, than a big increase on gallente and no reduction in the other factions.


This would be the optimal way to go, but they are not going to do this, since it requires a lot of work.
I think ALL gallente ships should have bigger dronebays than their counterparts from other races, except stuff like heavy dictors, where none of thoose have any drone bay.
Hamox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#623 - 2011-11-13 22:20:18 UTC
Lets think "out of the box" once more: Why not have drones that increase the speed of my ship or give me energy? Of course this drones would have high bandwidth so mostly Gallente with high bandwidth will benefit from it?
Just a thought.
Hentes Zsemle
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#624 - 2011-11-13 22:24:42 UTC
Hamox wrote:
Lets think "out of the box" once more: Why not have drones that increase the speed of my ship or give me energy? Of course this drones would have high bandwidth so mostly Gallente with high bandwidth will benefit from it?
Just a thought.


You would need to target yourself to use them, which would mean you could use other drones on yourself too.
Imrik86
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#625 - 2011-11-13 22:30:25 UTC
Hamox wrote:
Lets think "out of the box" once more: Why not have drones that increase the speed of my ship or give me energy? Of course this drones would have high bandwidth so mostly Gallente with high bandwidth will benefit from it?
Just a thought.


WTF people. Stop thinking CCP will code up something magical and introduce in the game.

Propose something by just tweaking the current game mechanics and you might get something. Propose a pony and you won't get any this christmas.
Nemesor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#626 - 2011-11-13 23:44:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Nemesor
You don't fix hybrids by buffing drones. You are mentally challenged and/or play Caldari if you believe otherwise.

As a blaster pilot.. you expect me to currently put my fate in the hands of a kiting minmatar pilot who decides whether to fight or not. Next you expect me to put my fate in the little mechanical claws of a gang of ******** drones that can be smartbombed off the field (1 medium smarty can take care of light drones). How about you put the fate of the Blaster boat pilot in the hands of the Blasterboat pilot.
Spugg Galdon
Last Rites.
Infinite Pew
#627 - 2011-11-13 23:47:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Spugg Galdon
Imrik86 wrote:
Hamox wrote:
Lets think "out of the box" once more: Why not have drones that increase the speed of my ship or give me energy? Of course this drones would have high bandwidth so mostly Gallente with high bandwidth will benefit from it?
Just a thought.


WTF people. Stop thinking CCP will code up something magical and introduce in the game.

Propose something by just tweaking the current game mechanics and you might get something. Propose a pony and you won't get any this christmas.



Exactly my thought. KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!!!! (KISS)

The current buff that Tallest is putting on the guns may be enough (with a bit of an ammo overhaul too). However the ships themselves need to be balanced to the new weapons too. These balances should be BASE STATS balances only. Not new features/new untested bonuses/new crazy wish list stuff.

>Short range guns means you need speed to get into range. If you do not get into range you basically do not have guns. It is that simple.
>Minmatar are the MOBILITY race. That means AGILITY, NOT SPEED (AND AGILITY). To that end, in order for Mimatar to keep their current tactics and combat philosophy, blaster boats need to have STRAIGHT LINE speed but not agility. Blaster boats will still be kited by a skilled pilot but a skilled blaster boat pilot will also be very dangerous. A blaster boat with high speed but low agility will not be able to fight like a Minmatar ship does as it will have no speed in the turns.
>Blaster boats are brawlers so they need a decent tank but not a stupid tank as tanking is the Amarr way.

RANT MODE OFF

Apologies for the rant.
Hamox
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#628 - 2011-11-14 00:02:10 UTC
Imrik86 wrote:
Hamox wrote:
Lets think "out of the box" once more: Why not have drones that increase the speed of my ship or give me energy? Of course this drones would have high bandwidth so mostly Gallente with high bandwidth will benefit from it?
Just a thought.


WTF people. Stop thinking CCP will code up something magical and introduce in the game.

Propose something by just tweaking the current game mechanics and you might get something. Propose a pony and you won't get any this christmas.


Hey cool down...
Do you really think CCP is reading this thread?
btw, this thread has shown one problem:
If you want to keep blasters in their current role as a short range weapon you will need to enable gallente ships to get in range fast enough to drop some damage before they get popped. So you have to fly through scram, neut, nos, web and all the other stuff your opponend is throwing at you. This might be a difficult task, especially if you try to catch a Minmatar ship that is faster than you. With this circumstances I do not believe they will fix it by changing the reload time of your weapons or the tracking. They need to change the way how Gallente ships work, make them faster or give them an other way to get in range fast enough...

This thread is already full of diferent ideas and thoughts, concerns, suggestions and so on.
The only thing this thread really is missing is a reply from a CCP dev.
As long as there is no official reply nobody here doesn't know exactly what the next steps will be and even if there are any next steps.
This thread is 10 days old and have we seen any reaction from CCP? Maybe I missed something?
Imrik86
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#629 - 2011-11-14 00:54:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Imrik86
Hamox wrote:
Imrik86 wrote:
Hamox wrote:
Lets think "out of the box" once more: Why not have drones that increase the speed of my ship or give me energy? Of course this drones would have high bandwidth so mostly Gallente with high bandwidth will benefit from it?
Just a thought.


WTF people. Stop thinking CCP will code up something magical and introduce in the game.

Propose something by just tweaking the current game mechanics and you might get something. Propose a pony and you won't get any this christmas.


Hey cool down...
Do you really think CCP is reading this thread?
btw, this thread has shown one problem:
If you want to keep blasters in their current role as a short range weapon you will need to enable gallente ships to get in range fast enough to drop some damage before they get popped. So you have to fly through scram, neut, nos, web and all the other stuff your opponend is throwing at you. This might be a difficult task, especially if you try to catch a Minmatar ship that is faster than you. With this circumstances I do not believe they will fix it by changing the reload time of your weapons or the tracking. They need to change the way how Gallente ships work, make them faster or give them an other way to get in range fast enough...

This thread is already full of diferent ideas and thoughts, concerns, suggestions and so on.
The only thing this thread really is missing is a reply from a CCP dev.
As long as there is no official reply nobody here doesn't know exactly what the next steps will be and even if there are any next steps.
This thread is 10 days old and have we seen any reaction from CCP? Maybe I missed something?


I'm pretty sure Tallest and others will go over the thread and look for any useful feedback they can use. They aren't exactly in a position to ignore their user base. They did this once, and the result was a mass unsub.

That said, it's obvious Gallente ships also need tweaking. Blasters rely on being able to get into range to actually use it since they have almost no falloff.

On the other hand, Caldari boats are basically fine (besides the upcoming Naga). What requires fixing is the fact rails are the most useful in ranges no one plays anymore (100+km) given you can just warp to zero, and useless everywhere else since they have the worst combination of DPS, alpha, and tracking (it's worse on all 3).

Give considerably better tracking to rails and then you might have something that works. The inherent big optimal would allow using higher-damage ammo, while the improved tracking would make it more useful at closer (medium) ranges. It still won't have big DPS or alpha, but at least it will be on par with other weapons at the more useful ranges.
Maxsim Goratiev
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#630 - 2011-11-14 01:41:10 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
Cyvhiros wrote:
Nemesor wrote:


Anyone can use drones. Fixing a ship is not done by fixing drones.

Blasters don't need a range bonus. Just damage and speed.




The point is we are not fixing ships, this is not a thread about it, nor are we speaking about this, we are trying to fix a "phylosophy", meaning the way gallente fight, because there is where something is wrong.

Besides every1 can use drones but not everyone can use drones as good as gallente can, they are suposed to be a vital piece in gallentean warfare, WHY NOT MAKE THAT TRUE!!.

Besides I agree in that gallente need a push up in their drone bays, and others a small nerf, especially minmatars should get a few less drones, having the drone space on tempest, hurricane, mael nerfed a bit.



upgrade drone AI from "amoeba" to "insect" first.

Maxsim Goratiev
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#631 - 2011-11-14 01:42:12 UTC
For the love of god CCP, i just wrote a 2000 word essay of feedback and forum ate my post. X
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#632 - 2011-11-14 03:27:44 UTC
maxzim either get chrome or learn to control C...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#633 - 2011-11-14 05:22:50 UTC
People need to stop thinking up random ass fixes to ****.

CCP will not add a ton of code for handful of ship for one archetype of one race.

Period.


If you can't make the change in a spreadsheet (adjust existing values) it will not happen. People need to stop posting pipe dreams.
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#634 - 2011-11-14 06:08:10 UTC
Dawwww. Sad
Sigras
Conglomo
#635 - 2011-11-14 07:41:19 UTC
My thinking "out of the box" idea is to change one of the bonuses of all of the blaster ships to this:

+15% overload effect and heat of MicroWarpdrives per level.

This would allow them to overheat their MWDs for some extreme speed, but not allow them to abuse that additional speed long term.
tika te
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#636 - 2011-11-14 08:28:12 UTC
i also agree that for fixing blaster issues the old doctrine that minmattar ships should be fastest either must be changed to "blasterboats are fastest ships" or you have to give the boats such bonsuses they're able to get in combat range.

because of the first, switching ac and blaster stats would only be logical...(fast ships->close range weapons, slow ships->long range weapons). u may like the fact or not - but this is how it is atm on tq.

introducing new (propulsion) modules just to fix blasterboat issues is not a viable solution. it will just mess up the gamemechanics even more.

i agree that the effectivness of sensor dampeners should be increased since they were nerfed to death last time, but that's another story and also won't make blasterboats competitive in the end. it would but then you'll have to boost damps WAY more than just to bring them in line with other ewar mods.
lowering s'ones locking range from lets say 100km to 50km still won't make that much of a difference since even large blasters can hardly hit targets at 20k or more..
(it's a pitty you have to fit 2-3 damps in the precious arazu/lachesis medslots for damps to actually have an noticable impact on a target - and those are ships with dampener bonuses!!)

the other thing i agree on is that ccp will have to rethink the racial strengths and weakneses without being too tied to "the old eve way"...


Roger Soros
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#637 - 2011-11-14 10:22:41 UTC
Hamox wrote:


Roger Soros wrote:
Rail
1) Hyperion and Mega still cannot fit a full rack of 425-II and a decent armor tank they need more powergrid and cpu given tha fact that you need a cap booster+mwd on every decent rail fit for fleets
2) 425 damage still to low compared to projectile turrets of the same caliber + capacitor usage and tracking make them whorse on every aspect
3) T2 ammo still remain useless compared to factions
4) ammo type granularity still overkill, lessen them pls


I would go the other way, I would increase the damage a lot but also the power grid usage a little bit.
That way you would equip 350mm with a decent tank and still good damage or 425mm for great damage when you have logistics in background that keep you alive becouse you dont have PG left for a great tank. If you just give the ship more power grid then why should I use smaller weapons like the 350mm? Pilots should have the choice, otherwise everything will end up with a FOTM.


Sacrificing 425-II for 350 just to fit a decent tank will create a subpar ship, basically a useless ship, no serious FC will take a 350mega over an abbadon with 200k+ ehp and 1400; i think if you want a race to be the most effective in a role is ok but the other 3 need to remain competitive; today you're being told "take an abbadon or gtfo" this is not acceptable anymore.
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
#638 - 2011-11-14 10:28:44 UTC
Maxsim Goratiev wrote:
For the love of god CCP, i just wrote a 2000 word essay of feedback and forum ate my post. X

Hit the back button and it should be there... at least thats how I've managed it before now.

"The game is mostly played by men - 97%. But 40% of them play as women... so thats fine."  - CCP t0rfifrans 

Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#639 - 2011-11-14 10:45:15 UTC
Nah that doesn't work. For Firefox at least.

Looking forward to Tallest's next update. Hang in there big guy! If you can pull this off, odds are you'll become the EVE equivalent of a deity and people will sing hymns in your name until the end of days.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#640 - 2011-11-14 10:46:27 UTC
Voith wrote:
People need to stop thinking up random ass fixes to ****.

CCP will not add a ton of code for handful of ship for one archetype of one race.

Period.


If you can't make the change in a spreadsheet (adjust existing values) it will not happen. People need to stop posting pipe dreams.

So much this!

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction