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So this is it for eve, is this the future, is it?

First post
Author
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#401 - 2013-08-30 10:47:31 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You need to work on your ability to respond to posts on the forum. You're simply going around in circles getting nowhere and avoiding the topic.

The fairer solution would be to leave assets with the same HP as they have at the moment, no reinforcement, but make all the HP armor. That way we can damage it and if you fail at defending, which you obviously appear to be incapable of, then that damage would be permanent and we could eventually pop it. Having to wait 24 hours to get your lazy asses into a massive blob to wtf pwn gangs is hand holding.

L O L
I'm going around in cirles?
You are claiming you want null sec players to have to work to keep their POCO, yet you still have not addressed the key issue, which has been mentioned several hundred times.
Here it is again:
If a POCO takes too much to defend and still only provides a tiny fraction of income, null alliances will stop using them. How can you prevent your idea from causing a POCO to simply become a deprecated feature?

Hand holding or not, the way it works as it is works well, just means you can;t solo kill a POCO. The fact that it makes you so sad that you come crying on the forum about it means it's doing a good job there too.

Without a reinforcement timer, it wouldn't matter if it had 1 HP or 100m HP. We've already pointed out that a 10 man gang even is crappy ships can drop a poco to reinforce in 15 minutes. It would take a 10 man gang with 800 dps maybe 25 minutes to drop it completely with no reinforce timer. Considering there's hundreds of potential spots for POCOs, the cost involved in makeing sure there was always a defense fleet available and a triage fleet to rep it afterwards would mean a POCO would need to generate more income than R64s. If CCP make a POCO give out more income than R64s, then I'm happy for them to make this change. If not, then the change would only send POCO mechanics to their grave.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#402 - 2013-08-30 10:49:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Solo pilot, small gang, even medium gang... oh well, just trash, they can't hurt any of our stuff, lets just dock, or leave, or just ignore them...
Thank you.

I'm fairly sure the regulars of RvB Ganked would like to disagree, they run pretty much weekly low and nullsec roams with the sole purpose of killing as many players as possible before they explode. They don't seem to have any problems finding people to kill in low or null, maybe because they actually provide good fights.

Goons (grr™) always give them a fight, TEST, when they held sov, did too.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#403 - 2013-08-30 10:50:47 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You're not helping your argument by supporting mine...

You outlined exactly my point and why I think the system is flawed.

Solo pilot, small gang, even medium gang... oh well, just trash, they can't hurt any of our stuff, lets just dock, or leave, or just ignore them...

Thank you.

I think you misunderstand. They are considered trash because you "elite solo pvpers" put every mod you possibly can on your ship to make it unable to be found and killed. You only decloak when you are close to 100% chance of a victory and run away as soon as there is a threat. There is simply no point in us wasting our time waiting for you to decide to make a move.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

William Walker
Crescent Eclipse
Libertus Specialis
#404 - 2013-08-30 10:52:38 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
nullsec defence should be conducted by a series of honorable 1v1s vs the invaders NO BLOBBING

They shall each pick a champion whilst everyone else in the respective alliances looks on from a safe distance, cursing at each other in local. Then, when the victor is decided, the loser must make haste to escape, least he be struck down by the victor.

ヽ(⌒∇⌒)ノ へ(゜∇、°)へ (◕‿◕✿)

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#405 - 2013-08-30 10:54:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

What specifically have I said about null sec or its mechanics that is incorrect? Please point it out?

You really expect me to trawl through all your posts to simply repeat what other posters have already pointed out to you? Dream on.

No, you stated I don't know what I'm talking about. I asked you in what way... are you saying that I don't know what I'm talking about but you don't know what I'm talking about either... how do you come to a conclusion someone doesn't know what they're talking about if you don't even know what they're saying? Are you psychic?

Why would I waste my time trying to explain that you're wrong, when you've already dismissed everybody else who's told you that you're wrong? You're so convinced that you're right, and everybody else is wrong, that to do so would be pointless.

Make it worth my while, send me a few hundred million isk to review your posts, and I'll go through them and pull out all the wrong stuff in them. Then you can ignore all the stuff I say and tell me that I'm wrong, like you've told everybody else that they're wrong, despite the fact that they have the experience and knowledge you lack. I'll even put it up for peer review, peer meaning people who know what they're talking about, which would be the ones you've already dismissed.

Put up or shut up.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#406 - 2013-08-30 10:55:15 UTC
William Walker wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
nullsec defence should be conducted by a series of honorable 1v1s vs the invaders NO BLOBBING

They shall each pick a champion whilst everyone else in the respective alliances looks on from a safe distance, cursing at each other in local. Then, when the victor is decided, the loser must make haste to escape, least he be struck down by the victor.

They cry when we **** up local too, so that has to be left out.
Don't forget if we're fighting a party from high sec, we are allowed T1 ships only to their T3s, and we must hand sov over, never to return.
Cos they want "hard mode"...

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

flashmek
British Munitions and Industry
#407 - 2013-08-30 10:57:40 UTC
i just honestly think as posted previous its not the whole fact that people are renting, people are taking up their offer and accepting it as the norm, but they are happy it works for both of them.

when your a small corp of 30 guys or an alliance of 150, why would you want to make an enemy of someone who is right next door and is 20 times bigger then you when you can easily make profit, be involved in the action in fleets, have access to PI, belts and anoms and work your way up to getting your own space with the backing of the guys you was originally renting from.

that is if your actually making an effort to work with them and not just using them as a renter.

its your own decision to pay the stupid price noones telling you it has to be done this way.

Flash
Sparkles Darington
#408 - 2013-08-30 10:58:05 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
William Walker wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
nullsec defence should be conducted by a series of honorable 1v1s vs the invaders NO BLOBBING

They shall each pick a champion whilst everyone else in the respective alliances looks on from a safe distance, cursing at each other in local. Then, when the victor is decided, the loser must make haste to escape, least he be struck down by the victor.

They cry when we **** up local too, so that has to be left out.
Don't forget if we're fighting a party from high sec, we are allowed T1 ships only to their T3s, and we must hand sov over, never to return.
Cos they want "hard mode"...

Someone ever tell you you look like Rick Astley?
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#409 - 2013-08-30 10:59:36 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
...we are allowed T1 ships only to their T3s...
... and remember if they bring two T3s you are only allowed two T1s... any more and you are blobing... and they don't believe that is fair.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#410 - 2013-08-30 11:02:21 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
...we are allowed T1 ships only to their T3s...
... and remember if they bring two T3s you are only allowed two T1s... any more and you are blobing... and they don't believe that is fair.

Those T1's must be haulers.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#411 - 2013-08-30 11:03:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Trii Seo wrote:
It's just a recent trend of hisec people discovering pvp and slowly getting their feet wet in the whole "no targets" bitterness.

That subject is a dead horse that's been flogged to the point it's a jelly-like wobbling mass with none of its characteristics remaining remotely horselike. There's no incentive to risk it, no reward to make you think "oh crap, a neutral/red scout in local. But I must remain in this easily-targetable place in my faction fit Tengu! I must get a shot at the billion ISK jackpot module or the anomaly will despawn!"

Risk vs. Reward is skewered and CCP should take a looong look before fixing it in a haphazard way, since in doing so they might do more harm than good. A good, big rebalance of PvE is needed.

I've been pvping since about late 2003...

I don't have any issues finding targets in null. I'm not complaining about lack of targets, there are lots. I'm simply saying that as in high sec, as in low sec, if you can afford to fly it you should be afford to lose it. If you deploy a player owned structure, it should be able to be damaged and even destroyed.

Now they can be damaged and destroyed, sure, but realistically, by a small gang or a medium gang, no. Any small gang or medium gang that turns up at the "allotted" time is going to be facestomped.

Basically this means you have indestructible player owned objects at least in regards to small and medium gangs. This is okay in WoW, its fine in The Sims and Second Life. But this is EvE... **** blows up. If your 100m isk POCO is so terribly hard to lose and you're in Null you have more to worry about than POCO's.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#412 - 2013-08-30 11:10:22 UTC
Sparkles Darington wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
William Walker wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
nullsec defence should be conducted by a series of honorable 1v1s vs the invaders NO BLOBBING

They shall each pick a champion whilst everyone else in the respective alliances looks on from a safe distance, cursing at each other in local. Then, when the victor is decided, the loser must make haste to escape, least he be struck down by the victor.

They cry when we **** up local too, so that has to be left out.
Don't forget if we're fighting a party from high sec, we are allowed T1 ships only to their T3s, and we must hand sov over, never to return.
Cos they want "hard mode"...

Someone ever tell you you look like Rick Astley?

Nope, but I'd probably take it as a compliment.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#413 - 2013-08-30 11:14:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I've been pvping since about late 2003...

So this character is just an alt then?

Infinity Ziona wrote:
I don't have any issues finding targets in null. I'm not complaining about lack of targets, there are lots. I'm simply saying that as in high sec, as in low sec, if you can afford to fly it you should be afford to lose it. If you deploy a player owned structure, it should be able to be damaged and even destroyed.

Now they can be damaged and destroyed, sure, but realistically, by a small gang or a medium gang, no. Any small gang or medium gang that turns up at the "allotted" time is going to be facestomped.
If a small or medium gang takes on a 10000 man alliance, yes, they get their face stomped. I wouldn't walk into a packed biker bar and start smashing up their tables and expect to leave with my knees in tact, even if I only smashed the empty tables.
EDIT: Oh and destroying a large POS in high sec takes a war dec 24 hours in advance, a huge gang (since caps can't come into high sec), then has a reinforce timer. Since most corps in high sec leave their BPOs in the station and remotely use them, they don't run the risk of losing them, and warping straight from POS shield to station (as there's no interdiction bubbles to stop them) means they can get everything out. High sec POCOs are completely invulnerable.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
Basically this means you have indestructible player owned objects at least in regards to small and medium gangs. This is okay in WoW, its fine in The Sims and Second Life. But this is EvE... **** blows up. If your 100m isk POCO is so terribly hard to lose and you're in Null you have more to worry about than POCO's.
Again, they are not indestructible. They have the right amount of defense in relation to their profit. If you want to make them easier to kill, they need to increase the profit considerably.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#414 - 2013-08-30 11:25:24 UTC
You know, the 1v1 idea is not bad. We should organize a Thunderdome arena system and make a "no holds barred" tournament with simple rules: Two men enter, one man leaves and if you attempt escape you get shot to bits by the spectators.

Free popcorn and an Arty-nado with every ticket, family packages include arty-thrashers for kids!

Then our benevolent sov-erlords can bet systems on fights!

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

whysoserios Andrard
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#415 - 2013-08-30 11:28:52 UTC
Leigh Akiga wrote:
For years the only alliance-level income source in 0.0 has been moongoo and rent. I think its time to introduce a new treasure. In the real world we fight wars for oil. How about introducing naturally occuring fuel-streams (phenomenon) in 0.0

POS/jump fuel- that can be harvested much the same way as harvesting gas clouds.




Yeah its called ice.

Also it will never change no matter how much you complain on forums , if you were to take sov would you not want 4 bil a month passive income?

I am the guy camping your gates and killing your renters in your system in your regions. 

Fighting is not mandatory but if you don't it will make me killing you easier.

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#416 - 2013-08-30 11:28:55 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I've been pvping since about late 2003...

So this character is just an alt then?

Infinity Ziona wrote:
I don't have any issues finding targets in null. I'm not complaining about lack of targets, there are lots. I'm simply saying that as in high sec, as in low sec, if you can afford to fly it you should be afford to lose it. If you deploy a player owned structure, it should be able to be damaged and even destroyed.

Now they can be damaged and destroyed, sure, but realistically, by a small gang or a medium gang, no. Any small gang or medium gang that turns up at the "allotted" time is going to be facestomped.
If a small or medium gang takes on a 10000 man alliance, yes, they get their face stomped. I wouldn't walk into a packed biker bar and start smashing up their tables and expect to leave with my knees in tact, even if I only smashed the empty tables.
EDIT: Oh and destroying a large POS in high sec takes a war dec 24 hours in advance, a huge gang (since caps can't come into high sec), then has a reinforce timer. Since most corps in high sec leave their BPOs in the station and remotely use them, they don't run the risk of losing them, and warping straight from POS shield to station (as there's no interdiction bubbles to stop them) means they can get everything out. High sec POCOs are completely invulnerable.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
Basically this means you have indestructible player owned objects at least in regards to small and medium gangs. This is okay in WoW, its fine in The Sims and Second Life. But this is EvE... **** blows up. If your 100m isk POCO is so terribly hard to lose and you're in Null you have more to worry about than POCO's.
Again, they are not indestructible. They have the right amount of defense in relation to their profit. If you want to make them easier to kill, they need to increase the profit considerably.

Yeah my 2003 character in which I have kills listed all the way back to 2005 is an alt. Kill mails were handled differently from the way there are now, they were simply mails which you needed to manually post.

I disagree that they are balanced. They cost less than a battleship and require billion isk gangs to get them to reinforced in any reasonable amount of time. Once they are reinforced they are indestructible and once that happens any small gang will a) not be around anymore, b) if they come back they will be facestomped. Terrible balance.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#417 - 2013-08-30 11:40:18 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
They cost less than a battleship and require billion isk gangs to get them to reinforced in any reasonable amount of time. Once they are reinforced they are indestructible and once that happens any small gang will a) not be around anymore, b) if they come back they will be facestomped.


So go reinforce a whole bunch of them and force your target alliance to pick one or split their forces. Or pick an appropriately sized target that can't "facestomp" you.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#418 - 2013-08-30 11:46:29 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Yeah my 2003 character in which I have kills listed all the way back to 2005 is an alt. Kill mails were handled differently from the way there are now, they were simply mails which you needed to manually post.

I just meant because you don't have many kills listed, even recently. I mean this year only 38, including pods, before then nothing since 2010. You're comfortable throwing around the "I R LONG TIME PVPER!" with that as your KB record?

Infinity Ziona wrote:
I disagree that they are balanced. They cost less than a battleship and require billion isk gangs to get them to reinforced in any reasonable amount of time. Once they are reinforced they are indestructible and once that happens any small gang will a) not be around anymore, b) if they come back they will be facestomped. Terrible balance.
Thats because you are only looking at Cost vs Defense. Why does a mackinaw cost 200m, while a battleship can be picked up for less? A Battleship costs less but takes a considerable amount more to kill. The reason is because it's not about cost, its about PROFIT. A Mackinaw can pull in vast amounts of profit, literally billions a day, so its balanced by being less defensible. A Battleship on the other hand can't make as much. A single POCO makes maybe 50m a month more in null than in high sec, and a high sec one can only make you about 200m a month without an enormous amount of effort.
The defense of a POCO is in line with it's profit.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#419 - 2013-08-30 11:58:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Lucas Kell wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Yeah my 2003 character in which I have kills listed all the way back to 2005 is an alt. Kill mails were handled differently from the way there are now, they were simply mails which you needed to manually post.

I just meant because you don't have many kills listed, even recently. I mean this year only 38, including pods, before then nothing since 2010. You're comfortable throwing around the "I R LONG TIME PVPER!" with that as your KB record?

Infinity Ziona wrote:
I disagree that they are balanced. They cost less than a battleship and require billion isk gangs to get them to reinforced in any reasonable amount of time. Once they are reinforced they are indestructible and once that happens any small gang will a) not be around anymore, b) if they come back they will be facestomped. Terrible balance.
Thats because you are only looking at Cost vs Defense. Why does a mackinaw cost 200m, while a battleship can be picked up for less? A Battleship costs less but takes a considerable amount more to kill. The reason is because it's not about cost, its about PROFIT. A Mackinaw can pull in vast amounts of profit, literally billions a day, so its balanced by being less defensible. A Battleship on the other hand can't make as much. A single POCO makes maybe 50m a month more in null than in high sec, and a high sec one can only make you about 200m a month without an enormous amount of effort.
The defense of a POCO is in line with it's profit.

I didn't say I was a good PvP'r nor did I say I was a full time PvP'r. I have a okay K/D ratio for solo pvp'r, actually its pretty damn good for a solo PvP'r. My last PvP sortie I killed 32 nullbears for 2 losses. Get out of your blobs and go try solo pvp in billion isk ships without jumpcloning and lets see how you do. If you can beat my 32 for 2 I'll give you 10 billion isk, happy to transfer it to Chribba if you like. Fraps it I'll be interested to see how you do in null all alone.

I disagree with your argument on POCO's.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#420 - 2013-08-30 11:59:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Bi-Mi Lansatha
Lucas Kell wrote:
...If a small or medium gang takes on a 10000 man alliance, yes, they get their face stomped...


...'cause I didn't know how many of them it was going to take to whip my ass, but I knew how many they were going to use. That's a handy piece of information to have, right there...'

Ron White