Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You are a bright little fella. You are right, I actually WAS comparing the revamped Tech-II to the strats, I thought I wrote quite in detail how tech II compares to tech III in verious roles.

yea, sac is for close range brawl so missile velocity bonus is kinda odd to me and i think it should be changed to something more useful like missile explosion velocity or explosion radius.

i personally feel more -dmg and range and some tank for the cerbus
- high dps (rof) and volocety and tank for the sac
thats why i was worried about the talk of cap recharge reduction that was talked about earlier!
I rather get rid of the 3 drones and give more to cap on the sac !!!

[deleted]

Pretty sure you're still brawling if you're within long point range, or is that reserve for Scram range fights with zero traversal now? A damage application bonus is always going to be at least a little useful because it lets you project damage better. I could ask you a similar question regarding a tracking bonus if you have a dual web fitted.



Sac already has the missile velocity bonus.

Really most of the damage application bonuses for these ships seem geared toward a MWD play-style, which is fine, but I can also see why it's annoying a few people. In-fact now that I look at things again every ship has a range bonus of one sort or another, so that seems to just be an intentional decision on Rise/CCP's part to make these ships a little more kity/stand-off range focused.

A second glance shows that the Zealot is not, in-fact, having its bonuses altered at all from TQ so I'm not sure what you're complaining about since the Zealot has been one of the mainstays of A-HAC gangs along with the Munnin for a while now.

It's also likely that given how the HAC's are going the pirate Cruisers will end up with a different focus, and since the Ashimmu and Vigilant can already be said to be brawlers(at least from my understanding of the term ) and probably the Phantasm as well (when it's used) it's not outside the realm of possibility that the Gila and Cynabal will see some minor re-purposing to be more short-range focused.

Scram/Web range yes, zero transversal .. what? The shorter the range the more transversal you get out of each m/s speed, brawlers when engaged are slower moving when seen from afar but faster moving in relation to each other.
But for argument sake, if "brawling" was to be extended to cover disruptor range, where does that leave kiting .. 30-50 km and thus only applicable with faction points and boosters?

It has it if these changes go through you mean. My argument is that it does not actually help the Sacrilege no matter how you choose to fly/fit it .. it augments HMLs most of all making it a PvE centric bonus because HAMs need the target to be immobilized which just isn't happening without scram/web .. alternative is to add a damage surplus as in the case of the Cerberus to negate the damage reduction inherent in unguided missiles.

Which is all fine and dandy, except that Deimos, Ishtar, Cerberus and Vagabond and to a lesser degree the Muninn will all have the ability/option to brawl or kite as they see fit with roughly equal strength in either .. some will do it without refitting for Goddess sake (/me waves at Gallente HACs)!

It is indeed excellent in blobs, but it will die horribly to ****-fit T1 frigates without the laser porcupine of that AHAC swarm .. been there, done that. How do you propose it be flown outside of a blob .. doesn't have the slots to control a fight because it need injector to run tank, doesn't have tracking (or even the option) to survive without the control which leaves pure buffer fits as only "viable" option and believe it or not, buffers without the ability to hit anything reliably are not really much use at all.

I couldn't care less about what the plans may be for pirate hulls, I want the HACs to meet a common standard as Rise went out of his way to explain .. I and others have bitched and moaned about CCP going back on their scheme of T1 = generalized, T2 = specialized so he specifically stated that it would not hold true for HACs because they are cool (paraphrased) .. he should be forced, coerced and cajoled into fulfilling his own damn idea of what HACs are and not be allowed to apply it to some but not others.

Equal opportunities. That is all.

Nothing you cannot catch will not be able to break your tank .. especially the Vagabond with the explosive heavy barrage he will be forced to use at that range. You see the exact same phenomenon with the Vengeance, it can simply not be kited but it will die easily enough with a bit of neuting and damage mitigation.

Not my standard. Not my idea. Not my universal terms.

Read the opening three paragraphs in the original post .. thought I made it abundantly clear as what I was alluding to.

So is it safe to say that with this being the last week in August and no patch notification that the fabled "1.1 release for August" won't quite make it out in August?

You don't seem to get what they are trying to do. So even though I don't agree with what they are doing, let me explain why your wish list for the Eagle will not happen. That is, unless they start changing their thinking.

speed : The HACs appear to be being set roughly into a slow sniper and fast/agile brawler/kiter for each. The Eagle is fitting into the sniper paradigm. It will not get more speed. The other ships in this group are the Zealot, Ishtar, and Munnin. It is not seen as needing speed. It has snipe range. It is meant to warp out if things get too close.

dronebay : Being a sniper it like the Zealot has no drones. Why the Munnin of the Minmatar, which have been pushed toward missile use and not drones, is retaining its dronebay is a mystery. The Ishtar of course is being pushed to use its immobile sentrys for sniping.

I agree with you that instead of the Cerb getting a 15/15 dronebay it should be the Eagle. The hull afterall is used for the Gila, which was made a droneboat. The Cerb doesn't really need a dronebay. It will either have 100% range bonused light missiles, or 100% range bonused precision Heavys to shoot at frigs. And if HAM fit then well it probably was looking to kill BSs and as such the dronebay is irrelevant.

The Zealot and the Eagle deserve the small dronebays. So they can at least throw out a few dishonor drones and hope to get a lucky jam on a tackling frig that is under the guns. But I doubt the balancing team will do this. So we will be left with a Cerb that doesn't need drones, an Eagle and Zealot that do but won't get them, and a Munnin and Ishtar that have them.

moar damage : Are you unaware that medium long range guns are getting a damage bonus? If it weren't for the simultaneous tracking nerf this would be a huge buff already.

agility : All of the "sniper HACs" will have poor agility. Range is their thing. They had better be aligned and ready to warp if anything lands next to them. Which is fine. A long range boat should not have good agility or speed. Then it would just be op, not catchable and always able to maintain its range advantage.

Of course this is where the Cerb and Sac stick out as mistakes. The Cerb was given range bonuses. So essentially the Caldari have two sniper HACs. Meanwhile it was also given the agility of a brawler/kiter. And because of the shield tank it can supplement its not great speed with lowslot mods and rigs. The Cerb will be the new more nimble and better ranged Drake in nullsec fleets, and a great new dps boat for lowsec. Hopefully we won't have 3 years of it.

The Sac will be a useless brick. It appears to have been meant as the Amarr brawler/kiter. But it has terrible agility, and lackluster speed. Being meant to armor tank both agility and speed will only get worse or stay lackluster (rig penalties, plate penalties, active armor lol).

The Ishtar will cross over like the Cerb. It will be able to perform both roles. I do not see much use in sentry sniping. The sentry immobility is pita and gets expensive over time from losing so many tech II sentrys. So it will probably be used more to brawl.

lower sig: Why? It is a shield tank. Once you extender up a shield ship, even a Minmatar one, the sig is not going to be in your favor anyway. Learn to live with it. It is not as bad a tradeoff as the mobility penalties are to armor tanks meant to get into short range.

So there you are. Maybe we will see some sniper HAC use. But I think we will see mostly Zealots in AHAC fittings, Cerbs in nullsec blob fleets or HAM and RLML lowsec dps roles, Ishtars and Deimos in brawler or AHAC roles, and Vagas still in solo/small gang roaming. We will see very little Sac, Eagle, or Munnin. Unless they do something to change the current proposed stats on these ships.

i just say cap because it used to be my tripple reping montor when i used to fly them :)
just like i hope they dont mess up the awesome speed tanking ability of the vaga
I rember the days trying to stay just out of webbing range shooting and hoping i dont get poped :)