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[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers - round two

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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1761 - 2013-08-07 19:46:13 UTC
I like the idea of Resilient, Anti -recon/ hunting mobile assault skirmishers
but most of these HAC's aren't that resilient, mobile or even that resistant to e-war, and just lack straight up dps.
Half of them are snipers which are just a complete waste and might aswell be in a different class or be T1 for as much use they are.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1762 - 2013-08-07 19:51:23 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Another small update

Vagabond powergrid raised to 900 (+45)
Zealot CPU raised to 340 (+20)


Cool, but what about deimos powergrid? I don't much like fitting electron blasters while everyone else has heavy pulses and 425s.


I fit ions and 200 just fine. What fit you attempting? Duel prop cap injected duel reps?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#1763 - 2013-08-07 20:11:47 UTC
The rail deimos is op as hell, btw. As is the dual rep version (lol 1k active tank ebofre implants heat and links), it needs to be toned down.

It isnt a perfect frig killer but it hits nearly any crusier going at full transverasl at 20km for nearly perfect damage. Thats over 700dps at 20km.
Serenity 159080
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1764 - 2013-08-07 20:24:01 UTC
Some very exciting changes, I'll be looking forward to the 1.1 release.

I couldn't see any post that brought this up, would a small exploration bonus be out of the question? Perhaps not to the default scan strength, but to either duration or deviation, or even to probe warp speed or scan range.

Just an interesting thought, that may tie into the electronics focus of HAC's. Either way, cross training for all HAC's has really paid off. Big smile
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1765 - 2013-08-07 20:31:12 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
The rail deimos is op as hell, btw. As is the dual rep version (lol 1k active tank ebofre implants heat and links), it needs to be toned down.

It isnt a perfect frig killer but it hits nearly any crusier going at full transverasl at 20km for nearly perfect damage. Thats over 700dps at 20km.


nah i like it where it stands.

that 1k active tank can be really hurt by neuts and part of that 700 dps comes from lackluster medium drones.

plus as its a kiter an arazu will really ruin its day.

i am really liking the ship. though i wont be armor tanking it any time soon. as i feel the shield version will be my choice for the ship. not sure if the 2500 armor is enough buffer to risk me duel tanking it as certain ships will just alpha the poor bugger.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1766 - 2013-08-07 20:37:17 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
i am really liking the ship. though i wont be armor tanking it any time soon.



Pretty much this. With rails in gangs shield fitted and lows full of dmg mods, with blasters mandatory plate unlless solo stuff where shield will also be omgfck'in rocks veldspar drop in my cargo.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#1767 - 2013-08-07 20:46:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Ishtar bonuses look funky. Make the drone speed bonus apply to all scout/heavy drones, not just heavy drones. A drone speed bonus is nice and not particularly OP. Same for tracking, give the tracking to all non-sentry drones. OR instead, if you guys want it to really be a heavy drone bonus specifically, make it bigger than 7.5%. Heavy drones are REALLY slow. Heavy drones with a 37.5% speed bonus are still slow.

Also the Ishtar has ABYSMAL CPU. ABSOLUTELY ABYSMAL CPU. It cannot fit drone stuff properly. Drone rigs murder it further. Necessary drone mods also use INSANE AMOUNTS OF CPU.

Give the Ishtar more CPU
OR
Increase the drone control range bonus to 10km per level, this would help with the cpu issue.

omg after looking more closely it looks like it'll have higher CPU thank you so much. The first iteration of the new versions didn't have this and i was very upset.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#1768 - 2013-08-07 21:08:28 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
The rail deimos is op as hell, btw. As is the dual rep version (lol 1k active tank ebofre implants heat and links), it needs to be toned down.

It isnt a perfect frig killer but it hits nearly any crusier going at full transverasl at 20km for nearly perfect damage. Thats over 700dps at 20km.


nah i like it where it stands.

that 1k active tank can be really hurt by neuts and part of that 700 dps comes from lackluster medium drones.

plus as its a kiter an arazu will really ruin its day.


Both of those are arguments which really dont count, a arazu will ruine very mwd kiters day, and neuts will ruin any active tanked ships day.

That howver does not mean that some active tanked ships can reach absurd amounts of tank or be incredibly op as kiters.

The deimos changes + railbuff make it absurdly op, just as t2 resitances and the rep bonus stack and become op as well.
Kane Fenris
NWP
#1769 - 2013-08-07 21:10:18 UTC
@ rise

one last request since vaga is supossed to be asb tanked could we have a little bit more cargohold plz?
Devon Weeks
Asteroid Mining Industries
Salt Mining Industrialists
#1770 - 2013-08-07 21:14:14 UTC
Really? We're still on this "Diemost is OP tank" kick? Maybe people should do the math on what you're giving up in order to fit this 1k dps tank. Powergrid is still the choke point on the Deimos and forces you to make tough choices between tank and gank. I think it's pretty balanced now. If it face melts with neutrons, it's a couple of good alpha strikes away from death. If you go with a plate or full buffer, you have little to no margin for error in getting position on your target with your electron blasters. If you shield kite, anything firing EM damage at 40km is going to eat you alive, and a shield resistance tank is not the greatest without another slot.. The Deimos didn't get a little buff to tank and an active tank bonus and magically transform into a Proteus. This idea that it is now OP it a result of people considering its fullest potential in every category while not considering that it can't meet them all at once.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#1771 - 2013-08-07 21:15:53 UTC  |  Edited by: W0lf Crendraven
Devon Weeks wrote:
Really? We're still on this "Diemost is OP tank" kick? Maybe people should do the math on what you're giving up in order to fit this 1k dps tank. Powergrid is still the choke point on the Deimos and forces you to make tough choices between tank and gank. I think it's pretty balanced now. If it face melts with neutrons, it's a couple of good alpha strikes away from death. If you go with a plate or full buffer, you have little to no margin for error in getting position on your target with your electron blasters. If you shield kite, anything firing EM damage at 40km is going to eat you alive, and a shield resistance tank is not the greatest without another slot.. The Deimos didn't get a little buff to tank and an active tank bonus and magically transform into a Proteus. This idea that it is now OP it a result of people considering its fullest potential in every category while not considering that it can't meet them all at once.



You give up very little, it still does 500+dps, has 20k ehp, is as fast as a shield fit and tanks 1k dps.
Devon Weeks
Asteroid Mining Industries
Salt Mining Industrialists
#1772 - 2013-08-07 21:35:12 UTC
Quote:
You give up very little, it still does 500+dps, has 20k ehp, is as fast as a shield fit and tanks 1k dps.


20k EHP is OP? Nope. Not by any stretch. I'm wondering now if you're trolling. Even the tech 1 cruisers can top 20k.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#1773 - 2013-08-07 21:40:42 UTC
Devon Weeks wrote:
Quote:
You give up very little, it still does 500+dps, has 20k ehp, is as fast as a shield fit and tanks 1k dps.


20k EHP is OP? Nope. Not by any stretch. I'm wondering now if you're trolling. Even the tech 1 cruisers can top 20k.


Do yourself a favor and compare ehp values of an active tanked cruiser with no plates. Comparing a buffer fit t1 to an active tanked t2 is not really a good way to compare ehp values... Just saying bro
Kick Rocks
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#1774 - 2013-08-07 21:45:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Kick Rocks
Alex Tutuola wrote:

I see no reason to ask for the muninn to be changed to missiles. It has its own role, and artillery is it. That said, it would benefit from a bit more power grid so you could fit 720mm IIs and a 1600mm plate without both rig slots using an ancillary current router. Otherwise, it will remain only a Black Legion toy, not having enough damage/tank to make even an anti-support fleet. If intended as small gang/solo play.... Well, the minmatar already have the vagabond, don't they?


I am hoping we are not going for a Solo Muninn. I might be the only pilot insane enough to even try that. However I do feel that it sacrifices a bit too much damage to fit a tank similar to its brothers. I might just be wrong on this and I am willing to accept that. CCP Rise, if you want this to be an Armor HAC as stated on the radio, please consider giving it a little boost to its PG. I don't think the original PG had that type of fit in mind.

v/r
1 of about 25 Muninn pilots.

Yes, I am an alt.  No, I do not care how you feel about that.  
Fewell
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1775 - 2013-08-07 21:47:20 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:

bought too many vagas and you cant sell them or what?
btw it seems the vaga can fit 425mm + mwd + shield tank pretty well , so where is the problem?


The problem is that people won't be happy until the ship can out brawl, out tank, and out kite all of it's competition.

some people want to fit 425s on top of that shield bonus. Some people would rather that easily abusable with links/blue pill and implant bonus be switched for another falloff bonus so the ship doesn't have to run from most things that aren't frigates.
Devon Weeks
Asteroid Mining Industries
Salt Mining Industrialists
#1776 - 2013-08-07 21:54:34 UTC
Quote:
Do yourself a favor and compare ehp values of an active tanked cruiser with no plates. Comparing a buffer fit t1 to an active tanked t2 is not really a good way to compare ehp values... Just saying bro


Wow. Say you're wondering if someone's trolling, get a response from trollolcorp. I have my answer.

Seriously, though. I don't this uber-on-paper tank is going to perform like you think. We'll wait and see, though.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#1777 - 2013-08-07 22:09:50 UTC
Devon Weeks wrote:
Quote:
Do yourself a favor and compare ehp values of an active tanked cruiser with no plates. Comparing a buffer fit t1 to an active tanked t2 is not really a good way to compare ehp values... Just saying bro


Wow. Say you're wondering if someone's trolling, get a response from trollolcorp. I have my answer.

Seriously, though. I don't this uber-on-paper tank is going to perform like you think. We'll wait and see, though.


You do now i was talking about a dualrep fit that tanks about 1k dps preheat? Not about a buffer fit.
Devon Weeks
Asteroid Mining Industries
Salt Mining Industrialists
#1778 - 2013-08-07 22:23:05 UTC
Quote:
You do now i was talking about a dualrep fit that tanks about 1k dps preheat? Not about a buffer fit.


Yes, I do. And, I don't think it's going to perform how you think. Cap is going to be an issue even with the new MWD bonus and cap changes. A cap booster will be another drain on powergrid. We still haven't seen how well these new rails are going to apply damage at full transversal. All in all, I just think it's not going to come out the beast that you think it will be. I don't see it becoming the new Cynabal.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#1779 - 2013-08-07 22:31:40 UTC
Diemos solution is obvious, you adopt the same tactic as you did against the pre-nerf Angel hulls: Blue-ball the bastards until you have enough neuting lined up to make him into a fluffy bunny.

I suspect the Curse will go through a huge popularity increase as everyone and their mother jumps on the Gallente bandwagon scary bit about it is that it has better cap recharge than the current Sacrilege with the revised Sac being only marginally better .. roll on Gallente bias .. first more lows than the kings of lows and now more cap, can't wait to see what they think of next! Smile
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#1780 - 2013-08-07 22:54:14 UTC
Devon Weeks wrote:
Quote:
You do now i was talking about a dualrep fit that tanks about 1k dps preheat? Not about a buffer fit.


Yes, I do. And, I don't think it's going to perform how you think. Cap is going to be an issue even with the new MWD bonus and cap changes. A cap booster will be another drain on powergrid. We still haven't seen how well these new rails are going to apply damage at full transversal. All in all, I just think it's not going to come out the beast that you think it will be. I don't see it becoming the new Cynabal.


Its completly capstable with mwd on, it fits easily with ions (2 medium reppers + medium cap booster need less grid then a 1600 plate) and rails track nearly any cruiser (mabye not a loki linked vaga with halos) perfectly at 20km, no matter its transversal.