Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This illusion of distinction is no different from the illusion of choice you mentioned earlier. Functionally they were the same. The attachment to that bonus is probably the worst thing for actual distinction.

They better keep their dirty mitts off the cynabal.

Just another perfect ship they want to ruin.

NOBODY is saying the Eagle is fine and providing meaningful reasons why while there are dozens of posts in both HAC threads saying otherwise, please actually read the posts and weigh the feedback instead of doing little more than vote counting.

Give the vaga the pwrgrid to fit 425s and i will be ok with it.
as it stands, with just 220s it's projection is ******* garbage if you have anything other than barrage loaded which does **** dps anyways combined with the tracking enhancer nerf makes it even more ****.

either let us fit 425s or lose shield boost bonus for more falloff.

-carb

Can I trade the shield boost bonus on the vaga for powergrid so I can fit arties?

And seriously... Rise... why no missile Minmatar HAC? or AF for that matter?

Not to be picky but you still have...

...as part of the proposed change.

So mad!

Common theme in this thread, using personal feeelings as a basis for "facts", as with the mwd bonus. Myself and others have shown how good the bonus is with dps graphs, but you like to ignore them. I don't remember the exact numbers right now, but a Vaga kiting a Talos at 16km will with the mwd bonus take like 150 dps instead of the 500 dps it will take now.

Stop being bad, the mwd bonus is utter win.


Role.. What's up with asking for a defined role all the time. This is a sandbox, no? We make the roles with the tools given to us. You ask for a role in the one post, then when we say that the Vaga's role is kiting with autos you cry your eyes out because you can't fit artillery? Give me a break. It was given a role, you cry about the role, then cry that it has no role?

And last, fun. Why is it not fun to fly a HAC? They will be great ships. They are combat focused, and if you don't like to play the "warrior class", maybe fly something else?

Keep looking is all I can say.

- What the hell does a "brawler" need a 40km SR weapon system range for, that is kiting distance. Might be a good idea for you to sit down and hash out the (role) definitions before committing to anything as the schizophrenic Sacrilege indicates that you are harbouring some confusion as to what a brawler is.
- How many ship through the history of Eve has had the moniker "high utility, lots of different things" and how much were they actually used .. It is all fine if they are on par when doing the things they can do but then you are in generalized territory (ie. no longer T2/HAC) as a T2 hull being able to do any one thing as well as a ship tilted towards a single mode would be OP as hell.
Result is a Swiss Army knife made of plastic; Great utility, can do loads of stuff. Just be prepared to go elsewhere when it fails the second time it is used for something other than as a letter opener.

It can still be saved however, will still be a plasticky utility knife but with a few titanium reinforced utilities:
Two options remain that will not break it, at least not more than the norm for rebalanced ships, take one or both as deemed necessary.

Sacrilege has anaemic dps comparatively, you are forced to carry ec300 (when are they getting the nerf bat by the way?) outside the blob so in reality you are only getting the equivalent of 2 light drones worth of damage from the drone bay changes which are the only real changes made to it with regards to brawling.
HAM's do not have stellar application without explosion velocity/radius bonuses and generally require target to be largely stationary and/or painted or have an unsupported buffer tank that can be whittled down .. all four mids are spoken for (prop/cap/web/point) so if it meets an active tanked ship it is likely to lose.

- It needs another low to be able to tank through enemy damage while its own whittles down the opponent. With more (reliable) staying power the ec300 can and will be swapped for damage. The added low enhances its ability to kite brawl (hahahaha) at disruptor range and opens up for more than viable shield fits.
- It doesn't need the missile range bonus, that goes double now that you included HML's in the primary bonus, what it needs is someway to either apply its damage or fuckup an enemies ability to tank.
Replace the velocity bonus with either explosion velocity or radius to allow for application -or- replace velocity bonus with a neut/nos amount bonus a la Pilgrim (it is Khanid after all) to allow for a tank off-switch.

Now if you are clever you'll see what I just proposed and the nervous laughter it will probably bring .. by adding both (high to low, neut bonus) you are forcing a dps decrease if neuting is wanted by pilot (same as Zealot). Bonused neuting pretty much ensures the use of medium combat drones however as the fight can theoretically be ended before backup arrives and it expands its repertoire to include going all neut support in the fleet theatre.

As it stands choosing any of the other HACs is a better option regardless of what one wants to do. Diemos (note the absence of the 't' ), Muninn and Ishtar will all be far superior brawlers and Eagle, Ishtar, Cerberus, Zealot will be superior kiters .. even when doing their "off" thing (ex. Diemos as kiter) the others will be better than the Sacrilege.

PS: If you didn't catch it, great Diemos change. Will be an absolute horror on the small scale .. the proverbial wet rolled up newspaper only moistened with concrete instead of water.

Edit: Just remembered .. there is another hope-of-salvation for the Sacrilege .. some years ago CCP mentioned adding a high-slot TP. That might do the trick if followed through.

That's probably the reason for that years tournament... It might be dominated by gallente cause they got sentries, which are mostly the premier weapon system to fight ina arena like that. Mind how the only other successful format has been the cockrush of thoraxhulls and cruisemissiles.

Aswell, the sentries this year were more of a sideproduct of both lots of ships being able at all to field proper sentries, and the recent appearance of DDAs which - to my knowledge - haven't even been Rise's implementation.

Gallente is just the smallgang-masterrace, deal with it.


tl;dr: This year's tourney was gallente cause 'assign sentries' is so much more efficient compared to 'primary X'

Why not fix active tanking before you give ships rep bonuses?