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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

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Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#1141 - 2013-08-06 07:14:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
None ofthe Above wrote:

It makes little sense to have CCP developers spend much effort on Avatar work in EVE until the Carbon team in WoD has some really stable stuff to try to port back. They don't seem to be gearing up for a marketing push for this christmas, so likely will be a year yet at least before we see something there.


The WoD team have abandoned the Carbon engine as it is known, and have created something custom out of it to suit their needs. From what Devs have said on the subject it sounds very unlikely that any code will be re-usable from their platform to ours. I had high hopes that the WoD production would eventually turn into WiS for Eve, but that seems very unlikely now.

I'll get you a link at some point, but currently the search function is inoperable.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#1142 - 2013-08-06 07:39:56 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
Which do you think CCP should implement first? Modular POS with interiors, or the exploration stuff?



Exploration, without a doubt. That would add new gameplay which expands on what we already have and it would be pretty easy to come up with new/interesting concepts for avatar gameplay.

I would like like to explore the interiors of POSs but ultimately the would involve investing a lot of resources for little gain.
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1143 - 2013-08-06 09:25:17 UTC
CCP had the chance to do some, even basic, form of avatar gameplay before SC. When SC is out it will be too late.
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Flamespar
WarRavens
#1144 - 2013-08-06 09:31:27 UTC
J3ssica Alba wrote:
CCP had the chance to do some, even basic, form of avatar gameplay before SC. When SC is out it will be too late.


I find the whole SC thing interesting.

If you listen to the forum whiners you'd think avatars will kill EVE.

Meanwhile players are literally throwing millions of dollars at a game that will include avatar content from the get-go.

o.O
Cpt Tirel
Institute For Continuous Glory
#1145 - 2013-08-06 09:48:39 UTC
I think letting players affect the general direction EVE took after Incarna was a grave mistake. Please CCP make the game as you intended it to be and if you think the players are going to whine about it again just shut down the forums for a few weeks after release of the new, glorious content.Big smile
Taiwanistan
#1146 - 2013-08-06 15:29:38 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Naira Shandr wrote:
Boggles my mind how petulant and unnecessarily pessimistic some people get, when CCP has demonstrated a love of r their universe. Especially now that they seem to have kicked up their communication with the player base. But theres no need to get sucked into this endless argument so I'll just plop down my thoughts. I hope that you continue working on WiS at whatever pace you choose CCP, because a good chunk of the players who enjoy the setting and interactions with other characters would really appreciate the ability to do so in a "physical space". (I think. I know I would.) In my very much unprofessional opinion, I think the next small step would be to introduce some kind of basic corporate office, where we can at least walk up and bump into our corp mates. Seems to me to be the best way of testing the waters again without having to add too much.


Well, banging your head on a wall for 16 months can have some consequences.

Back when CCP (apparently) didn't know what to do with the post-Incarna mess, I did everything in my hands to convince them to take little steps and implement WiS metaphorically one room at a time (yes, that's the same you've said).

CCP instead started work on a gameplay prototype involving a massive investment of time and resources, right as they said that "Jesus features" were gone. Later, they detached WoD carbon development from EVE, which means that whatever is made for WoD won't be usable in EVE WiS without a lengthy and costly portation(?) effort.

That is, what they have made has been, chronologically (non comprehensive list):

- state that massive features are no longer in their plans
- ignore the petitions to implement WiS step by step rather than as a massive feature
- transform "interactable" WiS into a "combat only" WiS
- ignore the petitions to implement WiS step by step (again)
- turn "interactable" WiS into a possible aftermath of the massive combat-only feature
- estimate the resources needed to implement the massive combat-only feature and discard its implementation for the curent production cycle (i.e. delay it at least until 2015)
- stop developing avatar content
- stop implementing existing avatar content
- stop developing avatar technology in a way that allows to use it in EVE

These are facts.

awwwww pooo poo no emoting for you with a bunch of other dudes in "a room"

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1147 - 2013-08-06 16:35:23 UTC
Eh. I want to see more Incarna content, but I'm patient. I want to own a casino, but I've got other means of making money. My enjoyment of the game isn't contingent on future content.

Still. I was at fanfest, Hilmar asked if we wanted more Incarna content, and what I heard was a resounding "YES!" I very much hope that's listened to.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1148 - 2013-08-06 19:26:37 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Naira Shandr wrote:
Boggles my mind how petulant and unnecessarily pessimistic some people get, when CCP has demonstrated a love of r their universe. Especially now that they seem to have kicked up their communication with the player base. But theres no need to get sucked into this endless argument so I'll just plop down my thoughts. I hope that you continue working on WiS at whatever pace you choose CCP, because a good chunk of the players who enjoy the setting and interactions with other characters would really appreciate the ability to do so in a "physical space". (I think. I know I would.) In my very much unprofessional opinion, I think the next small step would be to introduce some kind of basic corporate office, where we can at least walk up and bump into our corp mates. Seems to me to be the best way of testing the waters again without having to add too much.


Well, banging your head on a wall for 16 months can have some consequences.

Back when CCP (apparently) didn't know what to do with the post-Incarna mess, I did everything in my hands to convince them to take little steps and implement WiS metaphorically one room at a time (yes, that's the same you've said).

CCP instead started work on a gameplay prototype involving a massive investment of time and resources, right as they said that "Jesus features" were gone. Later, they detached WoD carbon development from EVE, which means that whatever is made for WoD won't be usable in EVE WiS without a lengthy and costly portation(?) effort.

That is, what they have made has been, chronologically (non comprehensive list):

- state that massive features are no longer in their plans
- ignore the petitions to implement WiS step by step rather than as a massive feature
- transform "interactable" WiS into a "combat only" WiS
- ignore the petitions to implement WiS step by step (again)
- turn "interactable" WiS into a possible aftermath of the massive combat-only feature
- estimate the resources needed to implement the massive combat-only feature and discard its implementation for the curent production cycle (i.e. delay it at least until 2015)
- stop developing avatar content
- stop implementing existing avatar content
- stop developing avatar technology in a way that allows to use it in EVE

These are facts.

awwwww pooo poo no emoting for you with a bunch of other dudes in "a room"


The rubbish jokes thread is over there --->

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Taiwanistan
#1149 - 2013-08-07 04:49:56 UTC
what here? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2659906#post2659906

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
TharOkha
0asis Group
#1150 - 2013-08-07 05:45:42 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1151 - 2013-08-07 06:53:32 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
what here? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2659906#post2659906


You're still butthurt because you couldn't manage to forward your request to join the wrestling contest?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Taiwanistan
#1152 - 2013-08-07 07:59:13 UTC
tell me again why eve is dying? tell me all the latest renditions of "because no emoting"

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1153 - 2013-08-07 13:31:23 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
tell me again why eve is dying? tell me all the latest renditions of "because no emoting"


If you're looking for people who talks about emoting, you should look at your side of the fence. I still haven't seen a WiSer who merely wants to emote.

Instead, everyone asks for avatar gameplay, but obviously TA, CCP and WiSer have different ideas of what would that mean. Which is funny as, in the meanwhile, avatars are the only featureless feature in the game and FiSers are thrilled about restating ships.

BTW, in case you wonder, my point is, exactly: the day EVE dies, when looking back, the failure to implement avatar gameplay will be deemed one of the main causes of its demise.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#1154 - 2013-08-07 14:22:42 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
tell me again why eve is dying? tell me all the latest renditions of "because no emoting"


You do look pretty stupid talking about emoting like anyone actually cares.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#1155 - 2013-08-07 14:29:21 UTC
I play EvE for the spaceships. As do most people.

Id like to see an avatar gameplay approaching the
spaceship complexity but tis just a dream for the moment.
Taiwanistan
#1156 - 2013-08-07 20:50:28 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Taiwanistan wrote:
tell me again why eve is dying? tell me all the latest renditions of "because no emoting"


If you're looking for people who talks about emoting, you should look at your side of the fence. I still haven't seen a WiSer who merely wants to emote.

Instead, everyone asks for avatar gameplay, but obviously TA, CCP and WiSer have different ideas of what would that mean. Which is funny as, in the meanwhile, avatars are the only featureless feature in the game and FiSers are thrilled about restating ships.

BTW, in case you wonder, my point is, exactly: the day EVE dies, when looking back, the failure to implement avatar gameplay will be deemed one of the main causes of its demise.

then why did you whine at the slightest possibility of death when TA mentioned the only goddamn semblance of content- exploration, i'd say you should just stop being a pining housewife and start an account in second life and run the "bar of your dreams" there already, that's my point exactly.

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
None ofthe Above
#1157 - 2013-08-07 21:18:34 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:

It makes little sense to have CCP developers spend much effort on Avatar work in EVE until the Carbon team in WoD has some really stable stuff to try to port back. They don't seem to be gearing up for a marketing push for this christmas, so likely will be a year yet at least before we see something there.


The WoD team have abandoned the Carbon engine as it is known, and have created something custom out of it to suit their needs. From what Devs have said on the subject it sounds very unlikely that any code will be re-usable from their platform to ours. I had high hopes that the WoD production would eventually turn into WiS for Eve, but that seems very unlikely now.

I'll get you a link at some point, but currently the search function is inoperable.


I would be interested in that link. Last I heard was that the code was "forked", which means they started from the same base as EVE but not bothering to commit any changes back to the original branch of the code. Some folk may view that as abandoning the Carbon engine but it shouldn't be.

If they've really chucked it out and started with ANOTHER custom engine, well they are working on a Duke Nukem release schedule then. I'd just write it off at that point.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1158 - 2013-08-08 06:43:38 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


In a very literal way, EVE is not going anywhere because there is noone at the wheel


In a very literal way, this is absolutely untrue.


So there is actually a Plan but, let me guess: it's NDA'ed!

So I must trust you.


Yes, precisely. Until CCP chose to make that communication I am absolutely forbidden to reveal anything about what they said to us on the subject. I did what I was able to which was to raise the issue and get an official answer.

Nevertheless there is a very competent person "in charge of EVE" at the moment. CCP have a plan for EVE, I have seen it, I think they can deliver it.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Flamespar
WarRavens
#1159 - 2013-08-08 08:52:16 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


In a very literal way, EVE is not going anywhere because there is noone at the wheel


In a very literal way, this is absolutely untrue.


So there is actually a Plan but, let me guess: it's NDA'ed!

So I must trust you.


Yes, precisely. Until CCP chose to make that communication I am absolutely forbidden to reveal anything about what they said to us on the subject. I did what I was able to which was to raise the issue and get an official answer.

Nevertheless there is a very competent person "in charge of EVE" at the moment. CCP have a plan for EVE, I have seen it, I think they can deliver it.


CCP really needs to announce what they have planned for avatars and a loose timeframe for delivering it. Its pretty disrespectful to players to get them excited about the feature, and then do nothing about it. Even a general vision for avatars would be nice.

I don't like the whole 'build your own stargates' vision for eve as it seems a very alliance only feature. CCP needs to articulate what's in it for the smaller corps and 'lurkers' which make up the majority of players.
Cpt Tirel
Institute For Continuous Glory
#1160 - 2013-08-08 11:17:31 UTC
Flamespar wrote:

CCP really needs to announce what they have planned for avatars and a loose timeframe for delivering it. Its pretty disrespectful to players to get them excited about the feature, and then do nothing about it. Even a general vision for avatars would be nice.


I think they should tell players less, in fact they should say nothing, and just make the game as they want it to be without interference. Almost like the genious Willy Wonka and his mysterious chocolate factory, only they make internet spaceships and quarters for the captains instead of chocolate.Smile