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[Odyssey 1.1] Local Armor and Shield repair module changes

First post
Author
GreenSeed
#121 - 2013-08-01 19:52:08 UTC
nice changes, but im not too sure about the ASBs and AARs being left out. AARs were already on the weak side, they use paste AND cap. and ASBs were harshly nerfed recently.(deservedly so.)

now about deadspace, i have no complaints at all. they were insanely overpowered already, and anyone selling all their A types or X types to buy orders on a hurry is shooting themselves on the foot, Deadspace local tank will still be overpowered.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#122 - 2013-08-01 19:52:55 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Sol Trader wrote:
and here i was under the impression ccp was capable of more complex balancing attempts. Like only 5% bonus to deadspace and 15% to everything else. Apparantly they are locked in to the number 15% though.


Compare Gist X-Type X-Large Booster with Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier to Centus X-type Large Armor Repairer. Do you see the difference?

I see the difference. One of those configurations takes 2 slots, one only takes 1 slot.

Please, at least include a T2 ANP rig in that comparison. And yes, T2. It costs less than the boost amp for sure. It costs half as much, in fact.
Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
#123 - 2013-08-01 19:57:55 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:

ANd actually don't think incursus will be op in any form or shape, eve is not about 1v1 but players vs other players, solo pvp is not and is not an argument of balance in an MMO daring to call it self an MMO.

That's why they didn't change the Incursus rep bonus when they introduced the SAAR right?
It is a *meta* change, it will change all ships that use them, ships with armor rep bonus will benefit more than the others, some ships with a rep bonus may need this change, Incursus is not one of them.
Minister of Death
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#124 - 2013-08-01 20:01:35 UTC
What is an ASB?
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#125 - 2013-08-01 20:03:00 UTC
Minister of Death wrote:
What is an ASB?


Ancillary Shield Booster. Uses cap charges for ammo, doesn't cost cap to use while loaded.
Jureth22
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#126 - 2013-08-01 20:05:10 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Minister of Death wrote:
What is an ASB?


Ancillary Shield Booster. Uses cap charges for ammo, doesn't cost cap to use while loaded.


hes sarcastic lol
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#127 - 2013-08-01 20:10:23 UTC
And X-Large Batteries?

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction

Crash Lander
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#128 - 2013-08-01 20:11:18 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Judas II wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • Increase the rep amount for all armor repairers (including AARs) by 15%
  • Increase the shield bonus of all shield boosters (except for deadspace/officer reps and ASBs) by 15%

  • Daft question, are faction Shield boosters buffed or not? (Dread Guristas, Pith A/B/C/X-type etc etc)


    Faction boosters like Dread Guristas are buffed, Deadspace boosters like Pith are not.


    This makes the pith c-type strictly worse than DG


    You are correct, that's a detail that I had missed and since the rep bonus increase from T2 to DG boosters is twice as much as the rep bonus increase from T2 to DB armor reps it probably means the DG/CN boosters need to get excluded from this change. Gonna do some more thinking and get back to you.


    I don't mean to be rude but this is sloppy. All you had to do to catch this was make a simple spreadsheet and look at the numbers.

    If you chose to exclude those two you still have Republic fleet and Domination and the T2 better than C-Type in hp/activation cost.
    Sal Landry
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #129 - 2013-08-01 20:16:18 UTC
    GreenSeed wrote:
    AARs being left out

    But AAR's aren't being left out.
    Witchking Angmar
    Perkele.
    #130 - 2013-08-01 20:24:50 UTC
    http://tny.cz/cb6e52c2

    Some numbers on the new boosters. Using tinypaste for better formatting.
    Lidia Caderu
    Zero To High
    Worst Alliance Ever
    #131 - 2013-08-01 20:44:16 UTC
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    This is one of a few threads discussing issues surrounding our changes to Command Ships, warfare links, and local repair modules for Odyssey 1.1 and beyond.

    This will be a fairly short OP but I wanted to keep the feedback thread separate.

  • Increase the rep amount for all armor repairers (including AARs) by 15%
  • Increase the shield bonus of all shield boosters (except for deadspace/officer reps and ASBs) by 15%

  • Let us know what you think!

    Really nice, but active reps still require cap... which is killed by MWD:
    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=264529
    Sergeant Acht Scultz
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #132 - 2013-08-01 20:51:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
    Witchking Angmar wrote:
    http://tny.cz/cb6e52c2

    Some numbers on the new boosters. Using tinypaste for better formatting.



    Would it be too much to ask you to make under that page the same calculations for Armor reps, yes I'm lazy and bad with those things.

    1st element that got my attention is cap efficiency difference in between T2 and dead space/officer, it's just about 140% better Shocked
    2nd is faction dead space difference is still 100% better

    Nothing gets closer with armor reps from memory but maybe someone will refresh my mind about this.

    Edit and not even accounting T2 or faction/dead space Shield boost amplifiers who can perfectly stack with resist rigs, increasing efficiency.
    With armor we have a +%rep amount and cycle bonus (reps faster but consumes as much cap) but no way it gets with a single rig or module the same amount of rep bonus.

    Not accounting of course on ships with rep bonus, combat boosters, links and implants, just flat numbers on simple ships. Difference is clearly abysmal.

    removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

    Sergeant Acht Scultz
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #133 - 2013-08-01 21:05:26 UTC
    Sal Landry wrote:
    GreenSeed wrote:
    AARs being left out

    But AAR's aren't being left out.



    Indeed

    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    [b]
  • Increase the rep amount for all armor repairers (including AARs) by 15%


  • CCP Fozzie how about tweak a bit those ARs pg/cap/cycle numbers? -I'm afraid this 15% while being an awesome addition is still a bit out of the line when we start comparing Faction AR and SBs and even greater is we compare dead space ARs vs SBs?

    We also have nothing that can be compared with dead space or faction SBAs, ho yes we have a rig with a huge drawback but no navy/faction/dead space equivalent.

    Implants and links should not be taken in to account, since this balance is about sub cap ships/modules therefore not relevant to the discussion at some point so my question remains valid I guess.

    removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

    Fredric Wolf
    Black Sheep Down
    Tactical Narcotics Team
    #134 - 2013-08-01 21:07:57 UTC
    I might have missed this as I skimmed over most of the post but with the boosts to the Rep amount on most mods could we also see an increase in DPS from Rats to make this more even. With this change I see Risk/Reward having a sharp decline in PVE as the rep amount on most ships now will be way above the Rat damage incoming.

    xHxHxAOD
    Southern Cross Silver Shields
    Flying Dangerous
    #135 - 2013-08-01 21:09:10 UTC  |  Edited by: xHxHxAOD
    unless my math is wrong which it should not be.
    ex. caldari navy large shield booster gives 240 hp/3.2 secs for 160 cap
    pith c type large shield booster gives 264 hp/3.2 secs for 160 cap
    gist c type large shield booster gives 215 hp/3.2 for 90 cap
    republic fleet large shield booster gives 192 hp/3.2 for 128 cap
    t2 large shield booster gives 240 hp/4 secs for 160 cap
    after these changes

    caldari navy large shield booster gives 276 hp/3.2 secs for 160 cap
    pith c type large shield booster gives 264 hp/3.2 secs for 160 cap
    gist c type large shield booster gives 215 hp/3.2 for 90 cap
    republic fleet large shield booster gives hp 220/3.2 for 128 cap
    t2 large shield booster gives 276 hp/4 secs for 160 cap

    in short there will be no point in using c types. i find it quite ******** that meta 11 mod is more **** than a meta 9 mod and the pith booster is harder to fit
    Jerick Ludhowe
    Internet Tuff Guys
    #136 - 2013-08-01 21:35:28 UTC
    xHxHxAOD wrote:
    unless my math is wrong which it should not be.
    ex. caldari navy large shield booster gives 240 hp/3.2 secs for 160 cap
    pith c type large shield booster gives 264 hp/3.2 secs for 160 cap
    gist c type large shield booster gives 215 hp/3.2 for 90 cap
    republic fleet large shield booster gives 192 hp/3.2 for 128 cap
    t2 large shield booster gives 240 hp/4 secs for 160 cap
    after these changes

    caldari navy large shield booster gives 276 hp/3.2 secs for 160 cap
    pith c type large shield booster gives 264 hp/3.2 secs for 160 cap
    gist c type large shield booster gives 215 hp/3.2 for 90 cap
    republic fleet large shield booster gives hp 220/3.2 for 128 cap
    caldari navy large shield booster gives 276 hp/4 secs for 160 cap

    in short there will be no point in using c types. i find it quite ******** that meta 11 mod is more **** than a meta 9 mod and the pith booster is harder to fit


    This is exactly why blanket balancing to a foundation that is not balanced will always end in a **** pile.

    Stop being lazzy fozzie and crew. Dead space modules have needed an "Actual" review since implementation... Throwing some foolish "they don't get 15%" nonsense around is only making you and crew look even more incapable.
    Nyancat Audeles
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #137 - 2013-08-01 22:01:24 UTC
    OMG THIS IS F*CKING AMAZING!!!!!!!!
    maCH'EttE
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #138 - 2013-08-01 22:17:02 UTC
    Again, armor reps should get an extra buff.
    Everyone knows that shield reps are OP compared to armor reps.

    I dont even have to do the math. I flied both, and shield is so much better and easier.
    Why give alittle advantage to armor reps,
    armor ships are usually slow, need to stay on field and take damage.
    you need to put armor rep rigs on, which shield reps dont have to worry about.
    aar still use cap, unlike asb
    you still need to use your mwd, since you need to get on your target to do any damage, means less cap, sure you can put a cap booster, but there goes your mid slot..
    Either give a little more advantage to the armor rep ships, or another idea is reduce the side effects of armor rep boosters along with a nice buff.
    Sabriz Adoudel
    Move along there is nothing here
    #139 - 2013-08-01 22:29:04 UTC
    Loving the look of this.

    I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

    Sergeant Acht Scultz
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #140 - 2013-08-01 22:36:44 UTC
    GreenSeed wrote:
    Deadspace local tank will still be overpowered.



    Confirming this. For a simple example lets pick the hated Hamgu with rep sub, a T2 SBA and an A type pith med SB.

    It's 612 Hp rep per cycle and 800 OH Shocked

    Add Crystals

    Add Standard Blue Pill

    Add boosting links like shield harmonizing and usual crap

    You're getting over 1K physical reps per cycle on a medium shield repairer, it takes you no rig slot for it, and 1 med slot to increase your rep power to the point after the 2nd rep you've already gained more than fitting a faction shield extender, this is completely insane.

    removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne