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[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers - round two

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SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-07-29 12:38:00 UTC
CCP Rise, this is what I would call a good job, 10x better than the first balancing pass.

The Ishtar's fitting issues are mostly fixed.

The Ishtar's drone bay bonus thingy is fixed.

The Cerberus fitting issues and capacitor issues are fixed.

The Sacrilege gets a bonus that makes it usable in fleets, that's great.

The Deimos gets the very needed adjustments in addition to the slot layout change.

The Muninn gets better at armor things, well, ok.

The only thing that I'm a little bit disappointed about is the fact that you kept the 4 medslots on the Vagabond. A 5th medslot instead of the 6th highslot would have been a demonstration of "We want specialization".

T2 ships are specialized, pirate ships are more versatile. The Vagabond gets 5 medslots but no neut, the Cynabal gets 5 medslots without T2 resistances, but gets the neut. Vaga = Specialized, Cynabal = Versatile.

But I can live with the changes you want to make, it's alright Smile
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#22 - 2013-07-29 12:38:42 UTC
Shade Millith wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Still worried on the shield boost bonus on a ship with only 4 mids. It bee lines the ship on a basic single fit.



You are not required to use every single bonus on a ship. It's still the old vagabond.

I'm more worried about the T3's and how they're going to ruin them.


And the old Vagabond sucks, thanks Cynabal! *Cheesy infomercial smile*

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Trifle Donier
Sham Rocks Incorporated
#23 - 2013-07-29 12:39:24 UTC
Giving the Ishtar one bonus for sentries and one for heavies is basically the same as it only having 3 bonuses compared to every other ships 4.

Its like giving the deimos a 5% bonus to blaster damage per level, then removing the microwarpdrive bonus and giving it a seperate 5% bonus to railgun damage per level (oh crap don't give them ideas!).

Also why limit it to just heavies? Shouldn't it at least apply to mediums / lights as well ?
Darling Hassasin
Parental Control
Didn't want that Sov anyway.
#24 - 2013-07-29 12:40:30 UTC
You have the Cerberus and Eagle backwards in the sense that the three light drones (or better 5) should go to the Eagle and not the Cerberus.

The Cerberus will be faster and uses missiles that do some damage to small targets. The Eagle is slower and trying to snipe with rails it has no chance of hitting small &*^ or using blasters it has no range to shoot at a 24km orbiter...

FIX it m8 Big smile

Sacriledge looks like maybee it went too far...

Deimos is good would be better with replacing the fall off bonus with something more universally applicable...

... but thats all minor issues compared with the Carberus / Eagle thingy I explained above.
Sir John Halsey
#25 - 2013-07-29 12:41:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir John Halsey
CERBERUS:

Why do you guys insist in keeping the same kinetic bonus on some ships while making it more generic on other ships?

I'm probably wrong but shield extenders + mwd on cerberus = sucide mission.
Maybe increase the shield resistance .... same as eagle?
raawe
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-07-29 12:45:27 UTC  |  Edited by: raawe
Wow, sacrilege retained some of that cap bonus and now has some projection with missiles. Altho i was hoping for an extra low i'm satisfied, and that CPU bonus is also nice, was always missing some (ishtar too). Great job Rise. What will you work on next? Marauders, pirate ships?
SidtheKid100
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#27 - 2013-07-29 12:45:48 UTC
Very excited about the Ishtar now, thank you so much!
The cap recharge bonus for all HACs sounds like it's going to be very helpful, especially for the skirmish/kitey ones. I like it.

However, I'm still a little confused about the decision to remove armor and hull hp from the Deimos in return for a pitiful amount of shield hp. It's not a shield tanking ship, as the slot layout and overall hp distribution would indicate. Why remove the HP that it usually puts resists on?

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I prefer posting with my main.
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-07-29 12:47:25 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Still worried on the shield boost bonus on a ship with only 4 mids. It bee lines the ship on a basic single fit.



The sacriledge is much better.


The cerberus.. I still fear might become too powerful with speed. but the metagame might not let that happen.. we must wait and see on this case

Well.. I just hope when you reach the recons you do not forget to make the Huggin the same thing you made the bellicose...


The presence of the bonus still doesn't force you to use the bonus, any more than it did in the first iteration. hth.


Why do people keep saying this?

The vaga was **** in it's role before the changes, saying "well you can still use a **** ship if you want", really doesn't help. The mid range kiting fast ship thing is done better with a tier 3 full stop.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
#29 - 2013-07-29 12:48:01 UTC
ISHTAR

Gallente Cruiser Bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone speed and tracking(was 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage)
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses:
5 km bonus to Drone operation range per level
7.5% bonus to Sentry Drone optimal range and tracking speed(was bonus to drone bay capacity)


So do the range/tracking/speed bonus apply to medium/small drones?
Why reduce the tracking bonus from the original plan?

Although heading in the right direction I feel the original Domi like 10% to all drone tracking and optimal and a separate 7.5% to drone speed would be more flexible and simpler without being OTT.

Like the improvements in CPU + lock range for it.Big smile

Fear God and Thread Nought
Anariasis
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#30 - 2013-07-29 12:48:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Anariasis
Looks much better :) Would like to see that utility high of the Sac removed in exchange to another low-slot. That ship looks soooo great, would love to fly it. Needs to be a bit better for that though.

Also, with the Ishtar getting almost the same insane bonus as the Dominix, I wonder if you have missed some stacking issues there. You can get a 85km optimal Garde II with Frig-Tracking ability there no problemo...
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#31 - 2013-07-29 12:48:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannott Thanos
Trifle Donier wrote:
Giving the Ishtar one bonus for sentries and one for heavies is basically the same as it only having 3 bonuses compared to every other ships 4.

Its like giving the deimos a 5% bonus to blaster damage per level, then removing the microwarpdrive bonus and giving it a seperate 5% bonus to railgun damage per level (oh crap don't give them ideas!).

Also why limit it to just heavies? Shouldn't it at least apply to mediums / lights as well ?

They are sort of different tho. Heavies get speed and tracking, sentries get optimal and tracking.

The bonus is also 7.5%, which would be too much speed for warriors, and small and medium drones are mostly fine in terms of speed anyway.

Ogre II's will tear ass like there is no tomorrow now, and you have the CPU to fit all the DDA's you want.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Gorski Car
#32 - 2013-07-29 12:50:16 UTC
Cerberus is going to be pretty awesome. RLML Life.

Collect this post
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#33 - 2013-07-29 12:51:54 UTC
Now the sac gets a useless missile velocity bonus (you ****** hmls over completly and hams are usualy used for brawling) and loses its big up, its incredible cap.

Bad change, also vaga is op and ffs no the biggest problem with the vagabond isnt the cynabal, they both are **** because of range and power creep and of course cause of t3s and because you buff brawling out of its ass and enrf kiting to hell.

The cynabal needs a big buff (and yes other priate cruisers abr the gila need one as well) and the vaga needs a even bigger buff, but not one making it a op brawler (600dps and over 80k ehp, before impalnts/links) but one making it a good kiter.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#34 - 2013-07-29 12:54:20 UTC
Excellent changes. I eagerly look forward to these in Odyssey 1.1.
So what's next: Marauders, Black Ops, Pirates?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#35 - 2013-07-29 12:55:00 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Now the sac gets a useless missile velocity bonus (you ****** hmls over completly and hams are usualy used for brawling) and loses its big up, its incredible cap.

Bad change, also vaga is op and ffs no the biggest problem with the vagabond isnt the cynabal, they both are **** because of range and power creep and of course cause of t3s and because you buff brawling out of its ass and enrf kiting to hell.

The cynabal needs a big buff (and yes other priate cruisers abr the gila need one as well) and the vaga needs a even bigger buff, but not one making it a op brawler (600dps and over 80k ehp, before impalnts/links) but one making it a good kiter.

Clearly, out of all the HAC's, the Vagabond is the worst kiter. Get out.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#36 - 2013-07-29 12:55:36 UTC
I really like the boosted sensor strength and lock range, but all the gunships are still absolutely RUINED by a single td
Christopher Multsanti
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#37 - 2013-07-29 12:56:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Christopher Multsanti
Thank you for round 2. Maybe I was asking to much for the vaga, as I do remember the days when the vaga was flown with a LSE and small gisti booster. I really like the cap changes and the sensor strength changes!! Any words on how this will affect ECM drones?

Haulers Kill Vagabond!
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#38 - 2013-07-29 12:56:59 UTC
No all hacs suck for kiting, pretty much everything sucks for kiting in the days of 2km/s cruisers and 3km/s navy crusiers, and the vaga gets turned into a anti kiting ship.

Vaga is a good kiting hac, meaning its a ****** kiter in general and needs a buff to that.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#39 - 2013-07-29 12:57:18 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
I like it, but why is the Diemos(t) loosing tank?


The Deimos still dies if anybody looks at it

Yaay!!!!
Tehmajor
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Deepwater Hooligans
#40 - 2013-07-29 12:58:52 UTC
the diemost really needs a bump in tank, as for the ishtar i would like to see the damage boost applied to heavy's meds and lights. also it would be lovely to see a tanking bonus on one of the gallente hacs.